Huge trades for Utah

[TheLand13]

your logic is very contort...

1) the points is more related to the games played then the attempts... mmmh, ok

2) you seem to imply Lauri being a 7-0ft compared to Mitchell's 6-1ft has a under the rim playstyile when both players had 50% of FGs from 3P... instead Lauri is simply more efficient

3) Lauri is more important of Mitchell for his team

Cleveland has a NetRtg +4.8
Mitchell has a NetRtg +4.8 (on-court) and +4.1 (off-court)

Utah has a NetRtg +1.5
Lauri has a NetRtg +5.7 (on-court) and -5.8 (off-court)

When plays Lauri raises the NetRtg of his team by +4.2 pts when Mitchell's impact is pretty negligible whether he plays or doesn't play.

No, I’m implying that they both play different brands of basketball. I never once mentioned their height. Mitchell tends to create a lot more of his own shots and looks. Lauri doesn’t. That’s going to make a difference. But that’s okay, because a player who can create his own shot from anywhere is what Cleveland desperately needed.

And ffs, not the on/off crap again.

When Mitchell sits, Garland (and now Rubio) are usually always playing. Given how fantastic they are at running an offense and how deep Cleveland is, it makes sense that they still continue to play great even when Mitchell sits. That’s what happens when you have a legitimately great team. That doesn't mean Lauri is more important in Utah than Mitchell is in Cleveland. It can be for a variety of reasons.

Hell, on/off implies that Cleveland is better without Mobley, which simply is not the case.

In other words, Lauri isn't more important to his team than Mitchell is to his. Next time use stats that actually support such a theory, like VORP (which, by the way, Mitchell currently has a higher rating than Lauri, so nice try).

dude I have talked of impact on-court

when Lauri is on-court Utah has a NetRtg of +5.7 (better of NetRtg of CLE and raising the team NetRtg of +4.2)
when Mitchell is on-court CLE has a NetRtg of +4.8 (the same of avg CLE)

what do not you understand?

Because it's not a reliable statistic at all. That same stat implies that Cleveland is worse when Evan Mobley plays and that Cedi Osman is the second best bench player in the NBA.

Again, Mitchell has a better VORP rating. That aspect alone showcases who is currently more important to their team. And in case you haven't figured it out yet, it's not Lauri.

[Fencer reregistered]

If I was Utah fan I’d be worried about Danny Ainge‘s draft record with late first round picks.

I mean these may not even end up being that late.
Plus he did draft Robert Williams and Grant williams with mid-late firsts

Walker Kessler might already be better than Gobert

Also 2 starters on a title team (Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins). And some all-defense guys (Tony Allen, Avery Bradley).

Al Jefferson and Terry Rozier were very mid-round.

[Fencer reregistered]

Come to think of it, it's a rare GM who drafts as many all-defensive team guards as Ainge has (I think the list is Smart, Rondo, Bradley, Allen) or all-defensive team players period (add Timelord, and perhaps in the future Tatum as well).

[DusterBuster]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

[TheLand13]

If I was Utah fan I’d be worried about Danny Ainge‘s draft record with late first round picks.

I mean these may not even end up being that late.
Plus he did draft Robert Williams and Grant williams with mid-late firsts

Walker Kessler might already be better than Gobert

Also 2 starters on a title team (Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins). And some all-defense guys (Tony Allen, Avery Bradley).

Al Jefferson and Terry Rozier were very mid-round.

I thought Rondo was drafted by Phoenix and traded to Boston? Do I have that wrong?

[paganin-74]

I mean these may not even end up being that late.
Plus he did draft Robert Williams and Grant williams with mid-late firsts

Walker Kessler might already be better than Gobert

Also 2 starters on a title team (Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins). And some all-defense guys (Tony Allen, Avery Bradley).

Al Jefferson and Terry Rozier were very mid-round.

I thought Rondo was drafted by Phoenix and traded to Boston? Do I have that wrong?

Sarver sold the pick. Ainge used it to draft Rondo.

[pace31]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I would be absolutely floored if they traded an all-star who will represent the host city who is also on an extremely good contract in the next few days.

Anything can happen, but I think this would be extremely unlikely. Just curious what's making you think they'd look to make a deal and move Lauri?

[Fencer reregistered]

Also 2 starters on a title team (Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins). And some all-defense guys (Tony Allen, Avery Bradley).

Al Jefferson and Terry Rozier were very mid-round.

I thought Rondo was drafted by Phoenix and traded to Boston? Do I have that wrong?

Sarver sold the pick. Ainge used it to draft Rondo.

Draft day trade. Pick for pick. (The Luoul Deng pick is the one he sold for cash, IIRC.) Agreed to when Rondo fell in the draft. Definitely a Boston pick in substance, whatever the technical deal was.

[JonFromVA]

No, I’m implying that they both play different brands of basketball. I never once mentioned their height. Mitchell tends to create a lot more of his own shots and looks. Lauri doesn’t. That’s going to make a difference. But that’s okay, because a player who can create his own shot from anywhere is what Cleveland desperately needed.

And ffs, not the on/off crap again.

When Mitchell sits, Garland (and now Rubio) are usually always playing. Given how fantastic they are at running an offense and how deep Cleveland is, it makes sense that they still continue to play great even when Mitchell sits. That’s what happens when you have a legitimately great team. That doesn't mean Lauri is more important in Utah than Mitchell is in Cleveland. It can be for a variety of reasons.

Hell, on/off implies that Cleveland is better without Mobley, which simply is not the case.

In other words, Lauri isn't more important to his team than Mitchell is to his. Next time use stats that actually support such a theory, like VORP (which, by the way, Mitchell currently has a higher rating than Lauri, so nice try).

dude I have talked of impact on-court

when Lauri is on-court Utah has a NetRtg of +5.7 (better of NetRtg of CLE and raising the team NetRtg of +4.2)
when Mitchell is on-court CLE has a NetRtg of +4.8 (the same of avg CLE)

what do not you understand?

Because it's not a reliable statistic at all. That same stat implies that Cleveland is worse when Evan Mobley plays and that Cedi Osman is the second best bench player in the NBA.

Again, Mitchell has a better VORP rating. That aspect alone showcases who is currently more important to their team. And in case you haven't figured it out yet, it's not Lauri.

eh? +/- is 100% a reliable statistic, but raw stats don't imply or predict anything.

But players most certainly do fill different roles on different teams and the Cavs believe Mitchell can do something for them that Markkenan could not; and that's to provide another high-level ball handler and playmaker as well as shooting/driving/scoring.

[DusterBuster]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I would be absolutely floored if they traded an all-star who will represent the host city who is also on an extremely good contract in the next few days.

Anything can happen, but I think this would be extremely unlikely. Just curious what's making you think they'd look to make a deal and move Lauri?

Sure, unlikely... agreed, but that is why it would be a good bet in terms of big payout (speaking gambling). HOWEVER, if you know Ainges' history as a GM, he's not afraid to make unexpected trades.

[FlatearthZorro]

If I was Utah fan I’d be worried about Danny Ainge‘s draft record with late first round picks.

Robert Williams and Grant Williams have done alright...

Bobby is a legit DPOY type big with semi concerning health issues.
Grant is a decent role player.
You can say whatever you want about Danny, but he brought in IT for nothing. Drafted Brown/Tatum/Smart and was the first to sign Horfie(he was brought back via trade). He's done well in the top 5 range. Both Brown and Tatum are deserving of their draft slots, imo. You can easily argue Tatum to be #1 overall.

[FlatearthZorro]

Simply mind boggling and arguably the best wheel and deal of all time. Turning Gobert and Mitchell into Markannen, Kessler, 7 FRP's and 1 pick swap is GM'ing on its grandest scale.

Danny's the GOAT and one of my favorite personalities in the NBA. He has such a calm, confident demeanor about him.

[DreamTeam09]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I'll bet you that doesn't happen. Absolutely no way

[shi-woo]

While late FRPs have less value than lotto picks, the Jazz, sitting on 7 FRPs (and maybe more before the trade deadline), can use that massive currency to bundle them and move up to higher picks or add them into trade packages for a quality player. For example, no way the Jazz are bringing 3 rookies onto the roster this summer. And, if the trade deadline turns out quiet, they still have good vets to bundle with FRPs in trades.

Ainge already made that mistake in Boston, and a lot of these posters are roasting him for not getting solid players on picks he was trying to trade. There's the famous Hornets/Heat turning down Ainge's 5+ picks for Winslow at the 9 and 10 spot.

I think Ainge is going to play it safer this time. He got burned with Kyrie, and I don't think he will make that mistake twice either.

I think Ainge will continue to find players around Lauri, and will only look to make the big trade when the team is ready to contend now. Thy still need to find 3-4 more pieces before they think about doing that, and all those draft picks will only help out.

[DusterBuster]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I'll bet you that doesn't happen. Absolutely no way

I can definitely tell the posters who aren't degenerate gamblers like myself...

You put money on a long-shot that might possibly be unexpected because it has the highest payout. I.E... Ainge/Jazz trading Markkanen is HIGHLY UNLIKELY... but not 100% out of the realm of possibility with Ainges' history of selling high if the opportunity arises.

[dautjazz]

You know that the Jazz are reaching out for KD right now lol

[Nate505]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I imagine if there was a way you'd get amazing odds for it.

Like, he could do it, but only for a better player that would make the trade infeasible. I don't see the upside for doing it though. The guy is an All-Star, on a really cheap contract for his production, and he's beloved in Utah right now.

[FranchisePlayer]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I imagine if there was a way you'd get amazing odds for it.

Like, he could do it, but only for a better player that would make the trade infeasible. I don't see the upside for doing it though. The guy is an All-Star, on a really cheap contract for his production, and he's beloved in Utah right now.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Who specifically (of the superstars) did you have in mind Ainge might be going after, @DusterBuster?

[DusterBuster]

If there's a way to put money on it, I would put money on Ainge trading Markkanen at this deadline.

I imagine if there was a way you'd get amazing odds for it.

Like, he could do it, but only for a better player that would make the trade infeasible. I don't see the upside for doing it though. The guy is an All-Star, on a really cheap contract for his production, and he's beloved in Utah right now.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Who specifically (of the superstars) did you have in mind Ainge might be going after, @DusterBuster?

It doesn’t have to be a superstar. If it’s a haul of a deal with a ton of picks and young talent for more long-term success, Ainge would do it. But it has to be a no brainer, don’t think he will get offered that.

[hugepatsfan]

If I was Utah fan I’d be worried about Danny Ainge‘s draft record with late first round picks.

I wouldn’t. Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Glenn Davis, Al Jefferson, Avery Bradley, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Ryan Gomes, Delonte West, Jared Sullinger, Leon Powe, Terry Rozier is a crazy quantity of guys to get outside of the lottery who has quality careers/strong stretches.

Ainges draft history is unfairly judged because he amassed a huge quantity of picks through trades, but all of them outside of that BRK heist were outside of the lottery. Those are pretty low percentage picks. He actually drafted quite well in that area, because you have to factor in the huge percentage of those guys who flake out. He certainly got more value out of all those late picks than one would expect.

The criticism of Ainge is that he was always unwilling to trade any of those late picks for role players. It cost some of his BOS teams who often lacked the needed role players to get through.