2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[sunskerr]

Would love Kyrie in place of CP3...gotta get the talent when you need it. Besides if it only costs CP3 who is old anyway, then if Kyrie headcases next year it'll be the same as CP3 is declining due to age i.e. the impact is that we're down a starter- our window would have been this one year anyway.

Of course ideally we get something better than Kyrie long term but if that doesnt happen well...at least he can probably lock in for less than half a season right after we trade for him.

So yeah.

[bwgood77]

I guess even though Kyrie would be eligible for a 4/$198.5 million extension with the Nets, if he gets traded, he is only eligible for a 2 year, $78.6 million exension. That's far more reasonable for him. I'm still curious what we'd have to give up for him. As I mentioned, Dallas, TO ME, seems like they could give them the best PG (for long term) out of the mentioned suitors, and another nice player such as DFS and/or Wood. While I've never been a huge Irving fan, the main reason I'd want him other than making us a stronger contender, is that I definitely don't want to see him on the Mavs, Lakers or Clips which would make them the favorites (Dallas maybe less so but long term Kyrie and Luka would suck having to go up against)..it would be interesting to see if Luka and Kyrie liked playing together though.

[bwgood77]

From Zach Lowe:

3. The decisiveness of the new Mikal Bridges
Since Jan. 1 with Devin Booker and Chris Paul mostly out, Bridges has run about 18.5 pick-and-rolls per 100 possessions -- nine times (nine times!) his miniscule career rate, per Second Spectrum tracking.

Phoenix has scored about 1.23 points per possession in that stretch on any trip featuring a Bridges pick-and-roll -- a mark that would rank about 15th among rotation ball handlers. Bridges' assists have jumped, and his turnovers have stayed low. In his past 16 games, Bridges is averaging 20 points and five assists.

He has been decisive attacking space and kicking to shooters.

Bridges has a knack for threading long-distance bounce passes through traffic. He is a confident entry passer:

Phoenix has won six of eight to save its season after a brutal 2-12 stretch in which half the team was injured. This hot streak started two games before Paul's return. (Booker is still out.)

It is not an indictment of Bridges that he needed some critical mass of talent around him to translate his increased ballhandling into wins. It's almost the opposite. No one expects Bridges to be a No. 1-ish option. Bridges managing this well on moderate volume in this context is a fantastic indicator that he's ready to do more. There is a huge middle ground between spot-up guy and No. 1 ball handler. Elite teams usually have lots of guys who live in that middle ground.

The Suns have all the makings of a trade-deadline wild card: new incoming governor, all their picks, a mercurial young center on a max contract, a proven winning infrastructure, a middling record and a big age gap between their two best players. There is always a trade that catches everyone off guard. Phoenix is one of several candidates to make it.

[Qwigglez]

Bridges has been absolutely crushing it. He can be an all-star next year if he comes out like this to start the year. It's been insane to see the offensive progression from him.

[BobbieL]

From Zach Lowe:

3. The decisiveness of the new Mikal Bridges
Since Jan. 1 with Devin Booker and Chris Paul mostly out, Bridges has run about 18.5 pick-and-rolls per 100 possessions -- nine times (nine times!) his miniscule career rate, per Second Spectrum tracking.

Phoenix has scored about 1.23 points per possession in that stretch on any trip featuring a Bridges pick-and-roll -- a mark that would rank about 15th among rotation ball handlers. Bridges' assists have jumped, and his turnovers have stayed low. In his past 16 games, Bridges is averaging 20 points and five assists.

He has been decisive attacking space and kicking to shooters.

Bridges has a knack for threading long-distance bounce passes through traffic. He is a confident entry passer:

Phoenix has won six of eight to save its season after a brutal 2-12 stretch in which half the team was injured. This hot streak started two games before Paul's return. (Booker is still out.)

It is not an indictment of Bridges that he needed some critical mass of talent around him to translate his increased ballhandling into wins. It's almost the opposite. No one expects Bridges to be a No. 1-ish option. Bridges managing this well on moderate volume in this context is a fantastic indicator that he's ready to do more. There is a huge middle ground between spot-up guy and No. 1 ball handler. Elite teams usually have lots of guys who live in that middle ground.

The Suns have all the makings of a trade-deadline wild card: new incoming governor, all their picks, a mercurial young center on a max contract, a proven winning infrastructure, a middling record and a big age gap between their two best players. There is always a trade that catches everyone off guard. Phoenix is one of several candidates to make it.

I wonder if Zach realizes why the Suns have a middling record?

They truly just need to get Booker back and be somewhat healthy

Granted trading Crowder for a player
Maybe one of CamP or Sham will get healthy
Plus the TPMLE with the buyout market

[Qwigglez]

Not sure what a strong offer is...

Read on Twitter

Unless you feel the stats of Powell, someone like Morris and John Wall is an enticing enough offer for Kyrie Irving. Statistically, those guys put up around 38 points per game, but clearly they don't draw as much gravity on the court like Kyrie would. I hope Kyrie doesn't go the Clippers though, I don't mind the Lakers nearly as much.

[BobbieL]

Not sure what a strong offer is...

Read on Twitter

Unless you feel the stats of Powell, someone like Morris and John Wall is an enticing enough offer for Kyrie Irving. Statistically, those guys put up around 38 points per game, but clearly they don't draw as much gravity on the court like Kyrie would. I hope Kyrie doesn't go the Clippers though, I don't mind the Lakers nearly as much.

Reggie Jackson
Powell
Covington
Kennard

Not all of them - but three. They don’t have picks from the PG trade

[bwgood77]

Not sure what a strong offer is...

Read on Twitter

Unless you feel the stats of Powell, someone like Morris and John Wall is an enticing enough offer for Kyrie Irving. Statistically, those guys put up around 38 points per game, but clearly they don't draw as much gravity on the court like Kyrie would. I hope Kyrie doesn't go the Clippers though, I don't mind the Lakers nearly as much.

Probably Reggie Jackson (played 4 years with KD), Norman Powell and maybe Luke Kennard or something? They don't really have any picks until like 2028, unless it was a bunch of 2nds.

For Brooklyn it would depend on what they want in a deal as to whether we could get him or not. If they want picks, we could beat all the teams, but my guess is they want players given they have KD, Simmons, O Neale, Claxton and a bunch of shooters.

Not sure what's a better deal, something like Jackson, Powell and Kennard or Dinwiddie, DFS and Wood (or 2 of those) and a pick.

I imagine we would do something like both Cams, Crowder and Saric or Shamet, which would be fairly competitive with those deals. Not as good of PG though, but probably best wing, despite being injury prone, and Crowder would be good for this season and they could keep him. If we added picks to that we could maybe beat them all...or if they wanted Ayton or Bridges, though not sure I'd trade either. I guess Ayton going out and Claxton coming back is fine if we are getting Kyrie even though I would be weary of Kyrie and don't really want to give up Ayton.

[bwgood77]

Too bad the Clips beat NY in OT. It looks like Dallas is going to lose and we will be ahead of them by a half game. Had we beaten Dallas the other night we'd be in the 4 seed a half game ahead of the Clips (and if we had beaten them and the Clips lost tonight a game and a half ahead of them too).

If we keep playing well, given Book should be back soon, at least after the all star break hopefully, it seems we have a reasonable shot at being the 4 seed, though the Clips are playing very well and if either the Mavs or them get Kyrie, I doubt we catch those teams.

[Qwigglez]

Probably Reggie Jackson (played 4 years with KD), Norman Powell and maybe Luke Kennard or something? They don't really have any picks until like 2028, unless it was a bunch of 2nds.

For Brooklyn it would depend on what they want in a deal as to whether we could get him or not. If they want picks, we could beat all the teams, but my guess is they want players given they have KD, Simmons, O Neale, Claxton and a bunch of shooters.

Not sure what's a better deal, something like Jackson, Powell and Kennard or Dinwiddie, DFS and Wood (or 2 of those) and a pick.

I imagine we would do something like both Cams, Crowder and Saric or Shamet, which would be fairly competitive with those deals. Not as good of PG though, but probably best wing, despite being injury prone, and Crowder would be good for this season and they could keep him. If we added picks to that we could maybe beat them all...or if they wanted Ayton or Bridges, though not sure I'd trade either. I guess Ayton going out and Claxton coming back is fine if we are getting Kyrie even though I would be weary of Kyrie and don't really want to give up Ayton.

Yeah I don't see a team offering a significant amount of picks for Kyrie, not that they would likely amount to much more than a pick in the 20s. I think the Mavs offer is probably better, however like I mentioned before I have a hard time seeing Kyrie wanting to go to Dallas to play with Luka.

The Lakers is still the top spot I see Kyrie landing, they clearly lack any talent though to get a deal done. I think a three team trade though could work where Westbrook goes to the Hornets, Rozier and Oubre to the Nets, and Kyrie to Lakers. Lakers could even get another asset back to match salaries. Maybe bring a fourth team like the Blazers, where they get Plumlee and Lakers get Josh Hart. Lakers give up a pick to the Nets. Lakers all of a sudden are scary, even in the trenches, I think they easily make the play-in at the very least and can be a contender for a championship.

Suns could offer Cam Johnson as probably the best player out of any of the teams mentioned, but I don't see a trade happening for Kyrie to the Suns.

[Frank Lee]

This reminds me when Kobe was threatening to leave the Lakers… For about a week, Phoenix was giddy. Same thing happened with Griffin. I read this is a leverage play. At least, that’s what I hope it is.

[bwgood77]

This reminds me when Kobe was threatening to leave the Lakers… For about a week, Phoenix was giddy. Same thing happened with Griffin. I read this is a leverage play. At least, that’s what I hope it is.

I think that is what it is too, but it has been rumored they would be interested in Dinwiddie, and Dallas I think is desperate to get some pieces around Luka because they don't have much flexibility, that I think they could offer up Dinwiddie and Wood and a first. I could see them even offering two 1sts. I think we would be less likely to be willing to move our core pieces other than Ayton who i don't think Brooklyn wants (though I did think of something like Ayton to Toronto, FVV and something else to Brooklyn and Kyrie to us. We would then lack a C though so we probably don't get far in that scenario either. I'm sure they'd prefer Dinwiddie to FVV anyway given their seasons this year and they already know Dinwiddie and if interested means they know AND like him so would feel comfortable.

[Qwigglez]

This reminds me when Kobe was threatening to leave the Lakers… For about a week, Phoenix was giddy. Same thing happened with Griffin. I read this is a leverage play. At least, that’s what I hope it is.

I hope so, but I think it's a bit different only because the Nets are rumored to want to get a deal done quickly for Irving, I don't remember hearing that about Kobe. Plus I just assume they might be tired of Kyrie's constant demands and polarizing personality. I also think if Miami offered Herro they instantly have the best package, but it is very difficult to make the salaries line up with Herro's poison pill contract.

[bwgood77]

I think one good thing with all the injuries in addition to Mikal's breakout after struggling for awhile being the main guy is the bench will likely be a lot stronger now. Hopefully the guards come back at some point, but we can go big with Payne, Shamet, Craig, Saric and Biyombo or Landale, or small with Payne, Shamet, Lee, Craig, Saric or one of the other guys. Then we still have Ish, Lee, Okogie and the other Cs for 3rd stringers.

[irish22022]

I think one good thing with all the injuries in addition to Mikal's breakout after struggling for awhile being the main guy is the bench will likely be a lot stronger now. Hopefully the guards come back at some point, but we can go big with Payne, Shamet, Craig, Saric and Biyombo or Landale, or small with Payne, Shamet, Lee, Craig, Saric or one of the other guys. Then we still have Ish, Lee, Okogie and the other Cs for 3rd stringers.

Totally agree. I’m serious when I say it, saric is going to be huge for us in the playoffs. I can feel it.

[lilfishi22]

I think one good thing with all the injuries in addition to Mikal's breakout after struggling for awhile being the main guy is the bench will likely be a lot stronger now. Hopefully the guards come back at some point, but we can go big with Payne, Shamet, Craig, Saric and Biyombo or Landale, or small with Payne, Shamet, Lee, Craig, Saric or one of the other guys. Then we still have Ish, Lee, Okogie and the other Cs for 3rd stringers.

100%

Payne is going to be a massive beneficiary of Mikals new found offensive abilities. We know Payne struggles when he's the sole playmaker because playmaking isn't natural to him like it is to a true PG. But he plays his best when he played with a guy like Book and now that Mikal can do a few of the things Book can, I think Cam can play a little more free

[Qwigglez]

I'm a bit skeptical of Payne durability at this point. While he was good for us while he started during November to early December, he has missed 26 games so far, almost half the amount of games the Suns have played up until this point. Last year he missed 24 games, so he has already surpassed that.

Also I think it's worth noting that the Suns have been more proactive about finding a PG that can take over post-Paul. I am unsure if Payne is guaranteed to stay with the Suns past the trade deadline, though I don't think he's on any team's priority list of players they'd like to acquire. I do think his salary is welcoming to other teams so there is that appeal at the very least. I do prefer to keep Payne because he is a very capable backup PG and can make for a reliable enough starting PG.

[Bogyo]

I think one good thing with all the injuries in addition to Mikal's breakout after struggling for awhile being the main guy is the bench will likely be a lot stronger now. Hopefully the guards come back at some point, but we can go big with Payne, Shamet, Craig, Saric and Biyombo or Landale, or small with Payne, Shamet, Lee, Craig, Saric or one of the other guys. Then we still have Ish, Lee, Okogie and the other Cs for 3rd stringers.

Totally agree. I’m serious when I say it, saric is going to be huge for us in the playoffs. I can feel it.

Dario is/has been one of my favourites, as I'm euro too. Since he was drafted. He might be the smartest player we have - he just never had the physical ability of a young CP or Book, etc... But he will not be able to play significant minutes after the first round of playoffs. He just doesn't have the speed to hang with anyone other than SLOW centers, but he is outbullied by them, and is a lot smaller than them.
Again, I love the guy, I would want him back next year, but this is just not realistic expectation of him. Like how some celebrate the Lee/DWJ/whicheverscrub 2 good games in a row phenomenon. I get it, I'm Suns all the way, but nah...

[Saberestar]

I think one good thing with all the injuries in addition to Mikal's breakout after struggling for awhile being the main guy is the bench will likely be a lot stronger now. Hopefully the guards come back at some point, but we can go big with Payne, Shamet, Craig, Saric and Biyombo or Landale, or small with Payne, Shamet, Lee, Craig, Saric or one of the other guys. Then we still have Ish, Lee, Okogie and the other Cs for 3rd stringers.

No way Damion Lee is out of the rotation, no matter size needed or whatever.

Monty trusts him and he is gonna play meaningful minutes at 2/3 even with a full healthy roster. He has played so far on every single game averaging over 22 mpg.

OTOH I think Okogie will be completely out of the rotation because he isn't reliable on offense.

[Calvin Klein]

Kyrie is so toxic that he has 4 or 5 fanbases already fighting between themselves and he hasn't even been traded yet.