Jokic officially averaging a triple double

[HotRocks34]

With tonight's victory over the Hawks (Nuggets 37-16), Denver is now 18-0 in games this season when Jokic has a triple double.

He finished with 14/18/10.

[AleksandarN]

3 MVPs puts Jokic in the HOF if not already in as an international player. I think he will now be defined by championships.

Yes I think now it comes down to legacy and where he ends up in the all time lists. It will come down to how many chips he wins. How many will it take to be top 10? Top 5?

[Warriorfan]

3 MVPs puts Jokic in the HOF if not already in as an international player. I think he will now be defined by championships.

Yes I think now it comes down to legacy and where he ends up in the all time lists. It will come down to how many chips he wins. How many will it take to be top 10? Top 5?

I may be wrong but don't think he will ever make All D team so I'd put the number at 6 to be top 10.

[LessEyeTest]

3 MVPs puts Jokic in the HOF if not already in as an international player. I think he will now be defined by championships.

Yes I think now it comes down to legacy and where he ends up in the all time lists. It will come down to how many chips he wins. How many will it take to be top 10? Top 5?

I may be wrong but don't think he will ever make All D team so I'd put the number at 6 to be top 10.

In that case Hakeem isn't in your top 10, right? He *only* has 2 lol

[Warriorfan]

Yes I think now it comes down to legacy and where he ends up in the all time lists. It will come down to how many chips he wins. How many will it take to be top 10? Top 5?

I may be wrong but don't think he will ever make All D team so I'd put the number at 6 to be top 10.

In that case Hakeem isn't in your top 10, right? He *only* has 2 lol

I don't consider Hakeem top 10. Wilt Russell Shaq Kareem are ahead at C IMO.
Duncan also can be considered C

[dhsilv2]

That's my point though, he actually has to prove it in the playoffs. If he's a 3x MVP and #1 seed in the conference, anything less than a Finals appearance this year is a failure. Piling up triple doubles in the regular season doesn't make you one of the greatest ever.

OMG.........more STUPID!

No, getting a 1 freaking seed without another allstar is not a god dang failure! That's freaking ALL TIME AMAZING! That just doesn't happen often, and nobody on this team is even CLOSE to being an allstar level player.

There will come expectations with this team to do well in the playoffs and if they lose stupidly in the playoffs that's a reason to knock Jokic. But if they lose to Boston who's a better team? Or say Golden State figures their issues out? Nobody should or can rationally get upset!

Suns were a first seed without 2 all stars , I could be wrong. The Dallas Mavericks were a 1 seed in the late 2010s . So what ? Having number 1 seed is not the end all be all.

Nothing is the end all be all. So what?

[hardenASG13]

Coming from a fanboy of a guy who didnt even make a single ECF and got swept in the first round even.

He made a very reasonable counter and you comeback with a jab about Embiid, because you know it was true. You should laugh at yourself. Also embiid never had a teammate dropping multiple 50 point games and taking over as the leading scorer on his team in the playoffs. Jokic did in his historic 1 trip to the WCF, where they had the luxury of coming back from 3-1 twice without having to play road elimination games.

Let me get this straight, you're arguing that Jamal Murray is a better player than Jimmy Butler and James Harden? You don't think either of those guys could take over as a leading scorer in the playoffs?

And how is Jokic losing in the playoffs without the second and third best players to the eventual champs a reasonable argument exactly?

No, I'm stating what Jamal Murray did in the 2020 playoffs, not what anyone could do (I dont recall Butler doing that on philly in the playoffs or Harden doing it last year. Am I mis remembering? Or did they have multiple 50 point games, plus over 40 in 2 others , with 3 of those 4 being elimination games including a game 7, and average 26ppg?). That was the one conference finals among Jokic and Embiid.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

3 MVPs puts Jokic in the HOF if not already in as an international player. I think he will now be defined by championships.

Yes I think now it comes down to legacy and where he ends up in the all time lists. It will come down to how many chips he wins. How many will it take to be top 10? Top 5?

I may be wrong but don't think he will ever make All D team so I'd put the number at 6 to be top 10.

with 6 rings playing this way he'd be a tier 1
goat candidate

[Exp0sed]

He made a very reasonable counter and you comeback with a jab about Embiid, because you know it was true. You should laugh at yourself. Also embiid never had a teammate dropping multiple 50 point games and taking over as the leading scorer on his team in the playoffs. Jokic did in his historic 1 trip to the WCF, where they had the luxury of coming back from 3-1 twice without having to play road elimination games.

Let me get this straight, you're arguing that Jamal Murray is a better player than Jimmy Butler and James Harden? You don't think either of those guys could take over as a leading scorer in the playoffs?

And how is Jokic losing in the playoffs without the second and third best players to the eventual champs a reasonable argument exactly?

No, I'm stating what Jamal Murray did in the 2020 playoffs, not what anyone could do (I dont recall Butler doing that on philly in the playoffs or Harden doing it last year. Am I mis remembering? Or did they have multiple 50 point games, plus over 40 in 2 others , with 3 of those 4 being elimination games including a game 7, and average 26ppg?). That was the one conference finals among Jokic and Embiid.

umm, maybe the reason Embiid didn't have such a teammate is because he doesn't make the players around him better?

You think Murray could have done what he did in the bubble without the 2 man game with Jokic? the Pnr with Jokic?
without Jokic constantly setting (sometimes more than 1 per possession) some of the best screens in the league?
because yes, Jokic is a top screener and Embiid barely even bothers to make a real screen, only shows his butt a little bit and rolls to the hoop (or to the pop)

screens are just one example, passing obviously as well

Jokic with Butler\Harris\Simmons\Reddick is an easy ring where all those other guys show out in a big way with Jokic orchestrating it all

great passers make their teammates better, same is true for Harden, LBJ etc.

Embiid takes all the shots he can get, another "star" will never do what Murray did along side Jokic but that's not because Murray is special haha, he is clearly inferior to guys like Butler and Harden

[hardenASG13]

Let me get this straight, you're arguing that Jamal Murray is a better player than Jimmy Butler and James Harden? You don't think either of those guys could take over as a leading scorer in the playoffs?

And how is Jokic losing in the playoffs without the second and third best players to the eventual champs a reasonable argument exactly?

No, I'm stating what Jamal Murray did in the 2020 playoffs, not what anyone could do (I dont recall Butler doing that on philly in the playoffs or Harden doing it last year. Am I mis remembering? Or did they have multiple 50 point games, plus over 40 in 2 others , with 3 of those 4 being elimination games including a game 7, and average 26ppg?). That was the one conference finals among Jokic and Embiid.

umm, maybe the reason Embiid didn't have such a teammate is because he doesn't make the players around him better?

You think Murray could have done what he did in the bubble without the 2 man game with Jokic? the Pnr with Jokic?
without Jokic constantly setting (sometimes more than 1 per possession) some of the best screens in the league?
because yes, Jokic is a top screener and Embiid barely even bothers to make a real screen, only shows his butt a little bit and rolls to the hoop (or to the pop)

screens are just one example, passing obviously as well

Jokic with Butler\Harris\Simmons\Reddick is an easy ring where all those other guys show out in a big way with Jokic orchestrating it all

great passers make their teammates better, same is true for Harden, LBJ etc.

Embiid takes all the shots he can get, another "star" will never do what Murray did along side Jokic but that's not because Murray is special haha, he is clearly inferior to guys like Butler and Harden

Did you not watch the bubble? Murray was insane. You think he had the huge games he did because of Jokic, really? They made the WCF because of Murray going bonkers that year.

Embiid did have some good teammates. They didn't do what Murray did. If they had, Philly likely would've beat Toronto and made a conference finals, yes. But they didn't. Injuries in the playoffs have been an issue for him. Playing good when he's healthy hasn't. What basis do you have to say Jokic with that core wins anything? Is it all the series Jokic has taken over?

Aaron Gordon shooting a high percentage this year, because he's playing next to the basket more than previous years, is really clouding people's judgement on Jokic making everyone around him better. Not that he doesn't, but most star players do, it's not unique to him. This includes embiid.

[Johnny Firpo]

40 games in a row at 50% or more FG%. What's the record in this? I know a couple of weeks ago he was already in the top 10, with only "dunkers" ahead of him.

[Blacksheep25]

I hate all time list arguments because the game is so constantly evolving. The top 10-15 guys played in eras so dissimilar it’s almost a different game. Some overlapped two eras. All the guys would be great in any era when you’re talking about that level of player, but history would reshuffle the deck as to how they are aligned.

I’m starting to think Jokic is in a conversation with 5 other guys as the most complete players I’ve seen in my lifetime where I got to watch all of their careers. Bird, Jordan, Magic, Lebron, and I think Jokic is approaching that level. Duncan is the one hard to properly evaluate. Just very good at everything with amazing longevity and an amazing teammate, but he didn’t have that five year period where you had no doubt he was the best player in the world. He was probably this year, then maybe again five years later, and always top 10, but his teams usually had enough where he could simply play his game and they’d be in the mix.


Jokic is more similar to Lebron and Magic and obviously Bird than a Jordan. Jordan is unique in being the only guy ever who could play like Kobe later did and a hundred other guys and do it efficiently on volume in an era almost no one was efficient.

That Jordan style of play is the most crowd pleasing, but the reality is it probably wasn’t good for the development of the game as no one has been able to replicate it. A lot of guys have had to unlearn trying to be Jordan in order to win if not paired with other all-time greats. The best of them like Kobe were just far less efficient knock off versions.

Those five guys could kill you in pretty much every way. If you need them to score, they have no issue scoring. If their teammates are on, they’re content to pass and get everyone involved. Jordan played in that strange 87-84 final score era where they needed him to score often, but I always recall the games where he scored a lot were closer games than the games where he had less points. If the Bulls won by 20, he had 25 points. If they won by 3, he had 40. He was a very willing passer if he trusted you. While not quite the passer the rest of these guys are, his 24/7 intensity showed up every night on defense or steals or whatever you needed from him.


Jokic just has such a mastery of the game right now, where if his guys are hitting wide open looks he creates, he’s content to pass and rebound. If they’re not, he can score more efficiently. All those guys understood their teammates stayed more engaged and played better defense if they also were getting offensive looks.

Obviously Jokic and Luka have brought in a ton of European fans who tend to group them. Luka is young and amazing, but I think there are a handful of guys through the years who could do what he does given his usage in that heliocentric style. He’s a top 5 player right now, but I still take a healthy Steph or Durant over Luka every night. Jokic has separated himself imo. I watch him just toy with teams and be content to excel by whatever his opponent is giving him. He just needs healthy teammates come playoff time. His teammates are worse than many all timers have had when they achieved their championships, but I think he can carry them all the way if they simply stay healthy.

[LessEyeTest]

He made a very reasonable counter and you comeback with a jab about Embiid, because you know it was true. You should laugh at yourself. Also embiid never had a teammate dropping multiple 50 point games and taking over as the leading scorer on his team in the playoffs. Jokic did in his historic 1 trip to the WCF, where they had the luxury of coming back from 3-1 twice without having to play road elimination games.

Let me get this straight, you're arguing that Jamal Murray is a better player than Jimmy Butler and James Harden? You don't think either of those guys could take over as a leading scorer in the playoffs?

And how is Jokic losing in the playoffs without the second and third best players to the eventual champs a reasonable argument exactly?

No, I'm stating what Jamal Murray did in the 2020 playoffs, not what anyone could do (I dont recall Butler doing that on philly in the playoffs or Harden doing it last year. Am I mis remembering? Or did they have multiple 50 point games, plus over 40 in 2 others , with 3 of those 4 being elimination games including a game 7, and average 26ppg?). That was the one conference finals among Jokic and Embiid.

The guy you're arguing with brought up a good point. Embiid doesn't make his teammates better, that's why they don't explode the way Murray did in the bubble. The second Butler got away from Embiid he was putting up 26/9/10 in the Finals against LeBron.

Why are you even in this thread? To keep making the case that non-allstar Murray is a superior teammate to anyone Embiid has ever played with? LOL, unhinged!

[Exp0sed]

Did you not watch the bubble? Murray was insane. You think he had the huge games he did because of Jokic, really? They made the WCF because of Murray going bonkers that year.

Embiid did have some good teammates. They didn't do what Murray did. If they had, Philly likely would've beat Toronto and made a conference finals, yes. But they didn't. Injuries in the playoffs have been an issue for him. Playing good when he's healthy hasn't. What basis do you have to say Jokic with that core wins anything? Is it all the series Jokic has taken over?

Aaron Gordon shooting a high percentage this year, because he's playing next to the basket more than previous years, is really clouding people's judgement on Jokic making everyone around him better. Not that he doesn't, but most star players do, it's not unique to him. This includes embiid.

there are degrees for stars making their teammates better

ofc Embiid makes his teammates better, he commands alot of defensive attention and double teams
He covers for them (at times) on defense
He gets the entire team in the bonus early, which benefits everyone not just him

but Embiid with his skillset and limitations does not make his teammates better to the degree a guy like LBJ or Jokic do

and specifically, Embiid is the "best scorer ever" he takes a crazy amount of shots per possesion and sucks up a ton of usage
a guy like Murray if he would take the shots he took yesterday and not pass to Embiid for a whole quarter, make or miss Embiid will be pouting and probably find a way to kick him off the team lol

[Yuri36]

Jokic is easily the MVP this season when you include the Nuggets record into consideration.

3-4 without him and 32-12 with him.

Well then it s close with Luka as Mavs are 0-7 without him (not 3-4 but 0-7 I repeat) and 28-19 with him which considering how bad Mavs are without him might be at least worth of a 32-12 record with Nuggets roster

[ty 4191]

40 games in a row at 50% or more FG%. What's the record in this? I know a couple of weeks ago he was already in the top 10, with only "dunkers" ahead of him.

https://imgur.com/a/E5VaBSf

Jokic has 90 3PA during this span. Nobody else on the list has more than 24.

Unfathomable efficiency.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Jokic is easily the MVP this season when you include the Nuggets record into consideration.

3-4 without him and 32-12 with him.

Well then it s close with Luka as Mavs are 0-7 without him (not 3-4 but 0-7 I repeat) and 28-19 with him which considering how bad Mavs are without him might be at least worth of a 32-12 record with Nuggets roster

the on/offs are not close, though

[Genjuro]

3 MVPs puts Jokic in the HOF if not already in as an international player. I think he will now be defined by championships.

He's already in as NBA player. He doesn't have a case as international player.

[HotelVitale]

Let me get this straight, you're arguing that Jamal Murray is a better player than Jimmy Butler and James Harden? You don't think either of those guys could take over as a leading scorer in the playoffs?

And how is Jokic losing in the playoffs without the second and third best players to the eventual champs a reasonable argument exactly?

No, I'm stating what Jamal Murray did in the 2020 playoffs, not what anyone could do (I dont recall Butler doing that on philly in the playoffs or Harden doing it last year. Am I mis remembering? Or did they have multiple 50 point games, plus over 40 in 2 others , with 3 of those 4 being elimination games including a game 7, and average 26ppg?). That was the one conference finals among Jokic and Embiid.

The guy you're arguing with brought up a good point. Embiid doesn't make his teammates better, that's why they don't explode the way Murray did in the bubble. The second Butler got away from Embiid he was putting up 26/9/10 in the Finals against LeBron.

I don’t want to the Embiid-Jokic thing but you guys gotta do better at it than this. The ‘second Butler got away from Embiid’ he averaged 20/6/5 in his first PO series, then 23/6/4, then 19/6/5—and then yes he averaged 26/8/10 in one series that wasn’t very close. (Altogether that averages out to about what he averaged in the TOR series with Embiid, 22/7/6.) And Murray put up 31.5ppg in a tighter series, nothing to dismiss.

None of this matters since checking PO volume stats is not a good way to determine making players around you better, but still. At least make some real arguments.

[hardenASG13]

No, I'm stating what Jamal Murray did in the 2020 playoffs, not what anyone could do (I dont recall Butler doing that on philly in the playoffs or Harden doing it last year. Am I mis remembering? Or did they have multiple 50 point games, plus over 40 in 2 others , with 3 of those 4 being elimination games including a game 7, and average 26ppg?). That was the one conference finals among Jokic and Embiid.

The guy you're arguing with brought up a good point. Embiid doesn't make his teammates better, that's why they don't explode the way Murray did in the bubble. The second Butler got away from Embiid he was putting up 26/9/10 in the Finals against LeBron.

I don’t want to the Embiid-Jokic thing but you guys gotta do better at it than this. The ‘second Butler got away from Embiid’ he averaged 20/6/5 in his first PO series, then 23/6/4, then 19/6/5—and then yes he averaged 26/8/10 in one series that wasn’t very close. (Altogether that averages out to about what he averaged in the TOR series with Embiid, 22/7/6.) And Murray put up 31.5ppg in a tighter series, nothing to dismiss.

None of this matters since checking PO volume stats is not a good way to determine making players around you better, but still. At least make some real arguments.

Right? It's like saying the second Jerami Grant got away from Jokic he went from averaging 12 to 20ppg. But I'd never say that, because it's so stupid.