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Trade Ideas

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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1161 » by JonFromVA » Sun Feb 5, 2023 6:10 pm

toooskies wrote:
mcfly1204 wrote:Do we have any feel for Love and the possibility of him being healthy at some point this season?

The problem is that I have a feeling a lot of it is mental and not just his thumb. He was shooting better immediately after the injury than in January.

But the thumb, the fact that he got called for blocking on his last dozen or so attempted charge draws, that he might be responsible for the team slump... It all adds up, and for a person that has battled depression before, it might take a little while after he's good physically to get right mentally.


I suspect any mental issues will lighten when his thumb has healed and he's shooting well again. Some web sites estimate it may take 3-4 months for a broken thumb to start to feel normal again even though it may be fully healed in 3 to 6 weeks.

And Kevin has to be shooting lights out in addition to his rebounding to have a chance to make up for his slowness.

Assuming we don't trade him first ... that is.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1162 » by JonFromVA » Sun Feb 5, 2023 6:18 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:Idk what they're asking and I know he can't shoot but what do we think about Thybulle?


Well, technically he's got his 3pt% up close to where Isaac's at on around the same kind of low volume. If we really were set on giving JBB another wing defender we could use to harass a team with two terrific wings, I'd probably have Hart a bit ahead of Thybulle.

It depends somewhat on our plans for LeVert, because if we hold on to him, he's a somewhat viable option to use to defend bigger wings; but if we trade him for a shooter that doesn't defend (THJ, McBuckets, etc), it will leave a defensive hole that Wade and Okoro might not be able to fill.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1163 » by jbk1234 » Sun Feb 5, 2023 6:58 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Idk what they're asking and I know he can't shoot but what do we think about Thybulle?


Well, technically he's got his 3pt% up close to where Isaac's at on around the same kind of low volume. If we really were set on giving JBB another wing defender we could use to harass a team with two terrific wings, I'd probably have Hart a bit ahead of Thybulle.

It depends somewhat on our plans for LeVert, because if we hold on to him, he's a somewhat viable option to use to defend bigger wings; but if we trade him for a shooter that doesn't defend (THJ, McBuckets, etc), it will leave a defensive hole that Wade and Okoro might not be able to fill.


Again, the front office giving JBB another one-way defender is like handing a handgun to a child. For the most part, our problems have not been on the defensive end.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1164 » by JonFromVA » Sun Feb 5, 2023 7:28 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Idk what they're asking and I know he can't shoot but what do we think about Thybulle?


Well, technically he's got his 3pt% up close to where Isaac's at on around the same kind of low volume. If we really were set on giving JBB another wing defender we could use to harass a team with two terrific wings, I'd probably have Hart a bit ahead of Thybulle.

It depends somewhat on our plans for LeVert, because if we hold on to him, he's a somewhat viable option to use to defend bigger wings; but if we trade him for a shooter that doesn't defend (THJ, McBuckets, etc), it will leave a defensive hole that Wade and Okoro might not be able to fill.


Again, the front office giving JBB another one-way defender is like handing a handgun to a child. For the most part, our problems have not been on the defensive end.


That's an unfair metaphor. The front office trying to work against what JBB wants to do is counter-productive. Either fire him, or give him the tools to get the job done.

I'm sure JBB would tell you our best offense is fueled when we play our best defense (that's just how he thinks), and "grit & grind" which is so dear to his heart is not just about effort and slow pace ... you need to rebound and create transition opportunities.

And in that respect, there probably aren't many better than Thybulle in terms of generating steals.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1165 » by jbk1234 » Sun Feb 5, 2023 8:16 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Well, technically he's got his 3pt% up close to where Isaac's at on around the same kind of low volume. If we really were set on giving JBB another wing defender we could use to harass a team with two terrific wings, I'd probably have Hart a bit ahead of Thybulle.

It depends somewhat on our plans for LeVert, because if we hold on to him, he's a somewhat viable option to use to defend bigger wings; but if we trade him for a shooter that doesn't defend (THJ, McBuckets, etc), it will leave a defensive hole that Wade and Okoro might not be able to fill.


Again, the front office giving JBB another one-way defender is like handing a handgun to a child. For the most part, our problems have not been on the defensive end.


That's an unfair metaphor. The front office trying to work against what JBB wants to do is counter-productive. Either fire him, or give him the tools to get the job done.

I'm sure JBB would tell you our best offense is fueled when we play our best defense (that's just how he thinks), and "grit & grind" which is so dear to his heart is not just about effort and slow pace ... you need to rebound and create transition opportunities.

And in that respect, there probably aren't many better than Thybulle in terms of generating steals.


There's a great deal of distance between fire him and give him whatever he wants. I'm not part of the pitchfork and torch mob, but if JBB thinks, just as a theoretical matter, that the best offense with Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen is starters is scoring off turnovers, then I'd be concerned. The teams that rely on that are generally teams that lack the talent to score efficiently in a half court setting.

If after watching the offensive performance of some of our zero spacing lineups this year, the front office agrees that the problem with sparse spacing is more defense, then I would genuinely question its competence. The game slows down in the post season. Half court offense is important. If we expend our limited trade asset base executing trades for guys that can't shoot, it's not going to end well.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Trade ideas 

Post#1166 » by KuruptedCav » Mon Feb 6, 2023 12:11 am

Josh Hart is a plus in more areas like rebounding and ball movement that Okoro hasn’t yet developed.

But Okoro has the higher ceiling, so I wouldn’t move on from him to Hart either.

I wouldn’t want both on the floor at once anymore than I’d want Stevens and Okoro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1167 » by JonFromVA » Mon Feb 6, 2023 3:55 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Again, the front office giving JBB another one-way defender is like handing a handgun to a child. For the most part, our problems have not been on the defensive end.


That's an unfair metaphor. The front office trying to work against what JBB wants to do is counter-productive. Either fire him, or give him the tools to get the job done.

I'm sure JBB would tell you our best offense is fueled when we play our best defense (that's just how he thinks), and "grit & grind" which is so dear to his heart is not just about effort and slow pace ... you need to rebound and create transition opportunities.

And in that respect, there probably aren't many better than Thybulle in terms of generating steals.


There's a great deal of distance between fire him and give him whatever he wants. I'm not part of the pitchfork and torch mob, but if JBB thinks, just as a theoretical matter, that the best offense with Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen is starters is scoring off turnovers, then I'd be concerned. The teams that rely on that are generally teams that lack the talent to score efficiently in a half court setting.

If after watching the offensive performance of some of our zero spacing lineups this year, the front office agrees that the problem with sparse spacing is more defense, then I would genuinely question its competence. The game slows down in the post season. Half court offense is important. If we expend our limited trade asset base executing trades for guys that can't shoot, it's not going to end well.


Oh, everyone knows the answer ... it's to add defenders who can shoot or shooters who can defend; but that's never been an easy thing to add at the trade deadline. The next best thing is to add a shooter you feel can defend within your system - like a Lauri or you hope will defend when properly motivated like a JR Smith; but that doesn't mean we couldn't also use another wing defender who can sometimes knock down 3's.

For one thing, Isaac may not be able to stay out of foul trouble and if we want to get anywhere in the playoffs there's likely going to come a point we need to deal with more than one wing. If we trade LeVert, that other wing defender won't be him. Bench depth is there to deal with contingencies.

But there's just no point bringing in a player that JBB won't play - he has to be on board - otherwise stay the course and try to develop the player we need or wait for the right opportunity to trade for him.

So why trade at all?

The theory there is that the Cavs would rather not risk losing both LeVert and Love's contracts and we need some sort of place holder for their salaries next year; but we'd better be receiving picks we can use in a follow on deal or getting players JBB will play or Altman will just be shooting the team in the foot.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1168 » by ijspeelman » Mon Feb 6, 2023 8:28 pm

Read on Twitter


Furkan for Windler straight up? I know Furkan has been hot garbage this year, but it helps our wing depth and he can shoot the three theoretically. I doubt we extend Windler.

Furkan, I believe, has one more guaranteed year past this year.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1169 » by jbk1234 » Mon Feb 6, 2023 8:31 pm

ijspeelman wrote:
Read on Twitter


Furkan for Windler straight up? I know Furkan has been hot garbage this year, but it helps our wing depth and he can shoot the three theoretically. I doubt we extend Windler.

Furkan, I believe, has one more guaranteed year past this year.


Maybe like three minutes before the deadline if nothing better comes along, and even then, I'm reluctant to add bad salary just to maintain salary slots.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1170 » by jbk1234 » Tue Feb 7, 2023 9:56 pm

I keep wanting to find a way to get Mo Bamba from the Magic, but the best I can do is an expiring and seconds. The problem is neither G. Harris nor Bamba are guaranteed next season so we really can't offer them cap savings. Okeke has just been reassigned to the G League and he's owed $5M next season but I don't know how motivated they'd be to move off his money.

I'm just not down with taking on bad money, or trading draft capital for players who aren't likely to be part of an 8-man rotation. Like I don't really see the point in upgrading Cedi or recommiting a substantial sum to a third big.

If push comes to shove, I suppose I'd eat Hayward, but we really should be getting seconds for doing so.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1171 » by JonFromVA » Tue Feb 7, 2023 10:12 pm

Yeah, who knows ... behind the scenes GM's may by trying to do a favor to an agent or do right by a player and may make a move that wouldn't pass muster on the T&T forum.

Ironic we were so up in arms over trading LNJ for Lauri and then paying him "so much money". :lol:

We don't have to wait too much longer to see if Altman can cook something up.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1172 » by jbk1234 » Tue Feb 7, 2023 10:23 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Yeah, who knows ... behind the scenes GM's may by trying to do a favor to an agent or do right by a player and may make a move that wouldn't pass muster on the T&T forum.

Ironic we were so up in arms over trading LNJ for Lauri and then paying him "so much money". :lol:

We don't have to wait too much longer to see if Altman can cook something up.


I'd actually be okay if we made no trade and got a backup big off the buyout market. The buyout market gets pretty overrated, but if Love is still hurt, it wouldn't be difficult to find an upgrade over RoLo.

My concern with Altman is that once he locks in on a guy, he seems unconcerned with paying more than fair market, and in this market, that's dangerous.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1173 » by JonFromVA » Tue Feb 7, 2023 10:44 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Yeah, who knows ... behind the scenes GM's may by trying to do a favor to an agent or do right by a player and may make a move that wouldn't pass muster on the T&T forum.

Ironic we were so up in arms over trading LNJ for Lauri and then paying him "so much money". :lol:

We don't have to wait too much longer to see if Altman can cook something up.


I'd actually be okay if we made no trade and got a backup big off the buyout market. The buyout market gets pretty overrated, but if Love is still hurt, it wouldn't be difficult to find an upgrade over RoLo.

My concern with Altman is that once he locks in on a guy, he seems unconcerned with paying more than fair market, and in this market, that's dangerous.


Koby has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book.

A lot of people thought he overpaid Lauri last Summer ... now he's got to be one of the best contracts in the league?

If we hold on to Caris and get him signed for anything close to what Utah paid Sexton, I'll call that a win too.

The Rubio signing is already paying off.

Our draft & stashes and 2-ways are all playing well.

The next step is something the Cavs have been really good at, and that's abusing the heck out of the salary cap as we likely enter the luxury tax next season.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1174 » by jbk1234 » Tue Feb 7, 2023 11:16 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Yeah, who knows ... behind the scenes GM's may by trying to do a favor to an agent or do right by a player and may make a move that wouldn't pass muster on the T&T forum.

Ironic we were so up in arms over trading LNJ for Lauri and then paying him "so much money". :lol:

We don't have to wait too much longer to see if Altman can cook something up.


I'd actually be okay if we made no trade and got a backup big off the buyout market. The buyout market gets pretty overrated, but if Love is still hurt, it wouldn't be difficult to find an upgrade over RoLo.

My concern with Altman is that once he locks in on a guy, he seems unconcerned with paying more than fair market, and in this market, that's dangerous.


Koby has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book.

A lot of people thought he overpaid Lauri last Summer ... now he's got to be one of the best contracts in the league?

If we hold on to Caris and get him signed for anything close to what Utah paid Sexton, I'll call that a win too.

The Rubio signing is already paying off.

Our draft & stashes and 2-ways are all playing well.

The next step is something the Cavs have been really good at, and that's abusing the heck out of the salary cap as we likely enter the luxury tax next season.


It's a very mixed bag in my book. I loved the Rubio acquisition and even advocated for it (both times). I was fine with the Lauri acquisition once it came out that Nance asked for a trade. It's hard to have too many shooters.

We just fundamentally disagree as to what guys like Sexton and LeVert are worth, in terms of both trade value and salary commitment. We overpaid to acquire both LeVert and Mitchell, and not by a little.

I also wouldn't enter the luxury tax just because we can. If the player is going to be 9-12 in the rotation, that's what the exceptions are for.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1175 » by JonFromVA » Tue Feb 7, 2023 11:34 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'd actually be okay if we made no trade and got a backup big off the buyout market. The buyout market gets pretty overrated, but if Love is still hurt, it wouldn't be difficult to find an upgrade over RoLo.

My concern with Altman is that once he locks in on a guy, he seems unconcerned with paying more than fair market, and in this market, that's dangerous.


Koby has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book.

A lot of people thought he overpaid Lauri last Summer ... now he's got to be one of the best contracts in the league?

If we hold on to Caris and get him signed for anything close to what Utah paid Sexton, I'll call that a win too.

The Rubio signing is already paying off.

Our draft & stashes and 2-ways are all playing well.

The next step is something the Cavs have been really good at, and that's abusing the heck out of the salary cap as we likely enter the luxury tax next season.


It's a very mixed bag in my book. I loved the Rubio acquisition and even advocated for it (both times). I was fine with the Lauri acquisition once it came out that Nance asked for a trade. It's hard to have too many shooters.

We just fundamentally disagree as to what guys like Sexton and LeVert are worth, in terms of both trade value and salary commitment. We overpaid to acquire both LeVert and Mitchell, and not by a little.

I also wouldn't enter the luxury tax just because we can. If the player is going to be 9-12 in the rotation, that's what the exceptions are for.


lol, we don't do anything because we can .. it's always with purpose and intent even if the intent is just to have a big expiring on the books so we don't miss out on a big trade due to a lack of matching salary.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1176 » by jbk1234 » Tue Feb 7, 2023 11:46 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Koby has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book.

A lot of people thought he overpaid Lauri last Summer ... now he's got to be one of the best contracts in the league?

If we hold on to Caris and get him signed for anything close to what Utah paid Sexton, I'll call that a win too.

The Rubio signing is already paying off.

Our draft & stashes and 2-ways are all playing well.

The next step is something the Cavs have been really good at, and that's abusing the heck out of the salary cap as we likely enter the luxury tax next season.


It's a very mixed bag in my book. I loved the Rubio acquisition and even advocated for it (both times). I was fine with the Lauri acquisition once it came out that Nance asked for a trade. It's hard to have too many shooters.

We just fundamentally disagree as to what guys like Sexton and LeVert are worth, in terms of both trade value and salary commitment. We overpaid to acquire both LeVert and Mitchell, and not by a little.

I also wouldn't enter the luxury tax just because we can. If the player is going to be 9-12 in the rotation, that's what the exceptions are for.


lol, we don't do anything because we can .. it's always with purpose and intent even if the intent is just to have a big expiring on the books so we don't miss out on a big trade due to a lack of matching salary.


This will be the second season in a row we've had big expiring contracts on the books. Using the full MLE twice before we have to pay Mobley, and if he keeps it up, Okoro, is probably the better way to go to fill out the back half of the roster. Don't start that repeater clock before you have to.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1177 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Feb 8, 2023 12:49 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Yeah, who knows ... behind the scenes GM's may by trying to do a favor to an agent or do right by a player and may make a move that wouldn't pass muster on the T&T forum.

Ironic we were so up in arms over trading LNJ for Lauri and then paying him "so much money".

We don't have to wait too much longer to see if Altman can cook something up.


I'd actually be okay if we made no trade and got a backup big off the buyout market. The buyout market gets pretty overrated, but if Love is still hurt, it wouldn't be difficult to find an upgrade over RoLo.

My concern with Altman is that once he locks in on a guy, he seems unconcerned with paying more than fair market, and in this market, that's dangerous.


Koby has earned the benefit of the doubt in my book.

A lot of people thought he overpaid Lauri last Summer ... now he's got to be one of the best contracts in the league?

If we hold on to Caris and get him signed for anything close to what Utah paid Sexton, I'll call that a win too.

The Rubio signing is already paying off.

Our draft & stashes and 2-ways are all playing well.

The next step is something the Cavs have been really good at, and that's abusing the heck out of the salary cap as we likely enter the luxury tax next season.
If it's just Sexton's salary number then i agree, if you mean length of contract too, heck no.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1178 » by JonFromVA » Wed Feb 8, 2023 2:51 am

With the a new TV deal coming up soon, more years is good for cost control.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1179 » by JujitsuFlip » Wed Feb 8, 2023 3:17 am

JonFromVA wrote:With the a new TV deal coming up soon, more years is good for cost control.
I'm good on LeVert signing a 4 year $70.95 million deal, that's just a bad idea all way around.

I want the luxury of having a large expiring, I don't wanna pay a guy for 4 years to play basketball who has a history of not playing a lot of basketball.

If that's the case, we shoulda just paid Sexton and kept all our future picks and pushed the win now window down the road.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#1180 » by JonFromVA » Wed Feb 8, 2023 3:30 am

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:With the a new TV deal coming up soon, more years is good for cost control.
I'm good on LeVert signing a 4 year $70.95 million deal, that's just a bad idea all way around.

I want the luxury of having a large expiring, I don't wanna pay a guy for 4 years to play basketball who has a history of not playing a lot of basketball.

If that's the case, we shoulda just paid Sexton and kept all our future picks and pushed the win now window down the road.


LeVert is useful, long, plays D, can run some offense, is even shooting pretty well and injuries are a reality. Basically backs up 3 positions for us AND has already accepted coming off the bench - something Collin didn't do when he was here.

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