2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[Revived]

It’s surprising to me to see some folks say we should stay PAT and run it back. I disagree with the notion that even when healthy there aren’t any holes on our roster. Yes we’ve been winning games lately but we saw last season how much reg season wins really matter come April/May. We have the same weaknesses that we had in the last year playoffs. Which is basically CP3 being abused defensively because he’s old and short.

It may not be the Pels/Mavs that do it this season but rather some other team.

I love CP3 for all he’s done for us. Helped bring the team back to relevancy and a finals run that none of us will forget. But I can understand James Jones wanting to upgrade there. CP3’s gonna get picked on defensively again in the playoffs. Teams are also gonna trap Booker in the backcourt knowing we don’t have another elite shot creator to make them play. Mikal’s development in scoring will help with this but he’s still not an elite level shot creator yet.

Also I don’t think Fred Vanvleet is the answer. He’s another short, non-athletic soon to be 30s PG that’s looking to get crazy overpaid. Toronto fans looking to rid of him so bad speaks volumes.

I’m not upset we didn’t trade for Kyrie cause I think he’s crazy and not worth the trouble. But we can’t go back to the playoffs with essentially the same lineup as last year except swapping out Crowder for Craig which is a wash at best. There needs to be something more than that done.

I still like the idea of acquiring Clarkson/Vanderbilt from Utah somehow. But it’s not my day job to figure this stuff out so I hope the folks in the Suns FO that do get compensated very well for this can figure out the best way to upgrade this roster with some other trades if Utah isn’t interested in dealing.

[Desertfox]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

We are not getting under the salary cap anytime soon, and having such a contract would open up future trades, which is the only way for over the cap teams to improve, like Golden State did.

[sunsbum]

I would just call up Jae Crowder and give him a 2year 20MIl contract extension while keeping all our draft picks and call it a day. CP, Mikal and I expect many other players would be happy.

We would keep a very good team together and be able to draft Crowder's replacement this summer.

I know that is too simple, but it is a better solution than any trade I see us making. I hope JJ and the new owner surprise me with something that is better.

Wait I actually like this.

this is why the blazers were stuck in the mud with CJ and Dame. Everyone knew CJ needed to be traded but the blazers wanted to keep running it back and failing for like 4 years too long. Asking the suns to bring back crowder while Paul is another year older is a recipe for you to be back here in 4 months complaining that JJ didn’t do anything etc etc. I’m not interested in watching the pels/mavs/clippers/grizz beat us up in the 1st or 2nd round again.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Buy really low opportunity (IF Paul must go after this) to get an All NBA level defender and facilitator??
I personally would do it and run him at the 4 (defensively) in a Draymond Green type of role to minimize his current shooting/confidence deficiencies. He could come in handy in the playoffs as a switchable elite defender against the Luka's, Kwahi's, George's and Giannis's of the league! He's got two years left, But would be a massive expiring for us in 2024! Again, I only suggest this in interest of playing him at the 4, similar to how Golden state utilizes Green defensively and as a secondary frontcourt playmaker! And because his value is so low that it wouldn't really cost us any significant assets!

And IF we'd truly have no interest ourselves, Perhaps we could acquire him and then flip him in a three way trade to Toronto for Van Vleet and Anunoby or for Van Vleet and Trent? Or maybe to Utah for some combination of Sexton, Vanderbilt, Olynyk or Sexton, (Beasley or Clarkson), and Vandy?

Nope. Nets took the bait and now they are stuck with him. He just isn't the same player he was and yeah in theory he could be a Draymond lite but no one has really been able to unlock that. I sure as hell am not willing to gamble a significant chunk of our salary cap on trying to unlock that. People say no contract is truly untradeable and that might be true but those bad deals that do get moved generally requires additional assets just to make it enticing enough for another team to take it.

I would say just flip him elsewhere in a 3 team deal for other assets then as previously suggested. Maybe to Utah or Orlando or Charlotte?? IF we're not really interested in taking that risk. Although I don't really know who else we should be expecting to be a realistic get that's still an all NBA level defender with playmaking/ ballhandling ability that could take pressure off both Paul and Booker whilst also defending the perimeter and the frontcourt next to Ayton..it's not like these kind of buy low opportunities come around very often either!

But there's also the distinct possibility that the Nets may just not choose to deal with us anyways at all because of the apparent ludicrous levels of butthurt they seem to still have from the KD pursuit and they're revealing the trade package to screw us and screw up our chemistry. Nevertheless we absolutely should be all in on being a 3rd team facilitator to them moving Simmons or in a Toronto trade even if it yields a Boucher and Trent type return.

We must choose a directional move here! Either "ALL IN" this season before teams fully power up further or move Paul and don't go down the mediocre treadmill path!

[BobbieL]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

We are not getting under the salary cap anytime soon, and having such a contract would open up future trades, which is the only way for over the cap teams to improve, like Golden State did.

This has validity. I am not sure Simmons is the right contract. But when you are an over the cap team - trading Saric, Crowder and Shamet for an expiring doesn't help. Shamet might help this summer

So do have to be smart about what player(s) you are trading for

[bwgood77]

Another conspiracy side of me thinks, perhaps the Nets didn't want to trade for CP3, because they felt they were also going to trade KD. And they weren't going to get as much value out of CP3 as they could get from Dinwiddie and DFS maybe. I could see the Nets, if they wanted to trade KD, they could also facilitate a Dinwiddie and DFS trade to the Clippers for maybe 2 1st round picks and the Clippers give the Nets Luke Kennard, John Wall, and Reggie Jackson. This way, the Nets accumulate as many picks as possible for the future.

Still though, they can play and be a fun team with KD and the rest of the team they got I suppose.

Why would they trade KD though when they are going for so many win now pieces and it has been said by sources they want to build around KD.

[bwgood77]

Kind of surprised the poll results are that skewed. I think Booker could play a role similar to the one Harden played or Luka, maybe with less usage but share with other ball handlers.

[bwgood77]

It pains me to say this because I've always loved Van Vleet but his next contract scares the hell out of me.

I'd almost rather get in on the Dinwiddie side of that and take on his more reasonable and controled salary.

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I like FVV but it makes zero sense to trade Dinwiddie for him, especially with draft capital. Dinwiddie is 5-7 inches taller, has a 60% TS% compared to FVV's 54%, shoots 40.5% from 3 while FVV shoots 34.4%. Assists, etc, are about the same, Dinwiddie a little less but he was playing with Luka, otherwise he'd probably have more than FVV. And he makes $18 million next year and FVV wants $30-$35.

[bwgood77]

I think the Nets are delusional why are they wasting their time trying to get players to put around player that will ask for a trade again in the summer and He will Fred Van Fleet is not good enough to win a title with Kevin Durant. A well run organization would realize that they are delaying their ability to win a title by holding on to a superstar that will only continue to fade and lose value it doesn’t make sense and of course Dallas wants Durant to stay right where he is lol. One last thing I want Durant to say something his friend was just traded no nothing why is that?

Those were the two main guys around Luka, and as far as the rest of their teams, Brooklyn's is better than Dallas'...when they had Dinwiddie and DFS.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

My thing is what other big name player or potential impact player are we saving that for as Paul will surely be gone next season and then we'll need to rebuild or reload around our core, but with very little flexibility anyways. Simmons for his salary and confidence concerns is still a 7 ft ballhandling/ playmaking guard who also just happens to be an ALL NBA level elite multipositional defender and playmaker. When was the last time we even realistically had a change at a player the level of Simmons or even a Collins? We simply aren't good or elite enough to flippantly pass on such opportunities. Because the reality is we haven't acquired or legitimately attracted any high end talent in over 3 yrs. At the very least, Simmons could be the answer to taking significant ballhandling and playmaking pressure off of Paul and Booker to help sustain them longer. And he could also handle our critical switch defensive issues against players like Luka, Ingram, Zion, JJJr, Giannis, Adebayo, etc.

He wouldn't even really be needed to provide offense, just really elite defense, ballhandling and playmaking. And again, he'd be a 40 million expiring contract for us to flip for another high end option after next season. So it wouldn't be like he'd cripple us financially. Lastly, he's another one of Book's friends and again an ALL NBA LEVEL TALENT!!! you get those whenever you can IF you can and figure out the B's and C's later.

BONUS Would be how absurdly elite a wing combo of Bridges and Simmons would he for us. But it would allow Bridges to finally guard the smaller wings and guards and roam free safety style whilst Simmons would guard the bigger, stronger wing/ forwards. But even IF you just can't stomach such risks, You still pursue this as a 3rd team facilitator to potentially get another quality piece or two coming back in the deal.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Kind of surprised the poll results are that skewed. I think Booker could play a role similar to the one Harden played or Luka, maybe with less usage but share with other ball handlers.

But you have to be concerned with his leg injuries and overall durability issues in a heavier usage primary guard facilitator role. That concern is likely why the heavy interest in still acquiring another ballhandling option?

[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

Buy really low opportunity (IF Paul must go after this) to get an All NBA level defender and facilitator??
I personally would do it and run him at the 4 (defensively) in a Draymond Green type of role to minimize his current shooting/confidence deficiencies. He could come in handy in the playoffs as a switchable elite defender against the Luka's, Kwahi's, George's and Giannis's of the league! He's got two years left, But would be a massive expiring for us in 2024! Again, I only suggest this in interest of playing him at the 4, similar to how Golden state utilizes Green defensively and as a secondary frontcourt playmaker! And because his value is so low that it wouldn't really cost us any significant assets!

And IF we'd truly have no interest ourselves, Perhaps we could acquire him and then flip him in a three way trade to Toronto for Van Vleet and Anunoby or for Van Vleet and Trent? Or maybe to Utah for some combination of Sexton, Vanderbilt, Olynyk or Sexton, (Beasley or Clarkson), and Vandy?

Nope. Nets took the bait and now they are stuck with him. He just isn't the same player he was and yeah in theory he could be a Draymond lite but no one has really been able to unlock that. I sure as hell am not willing to gamble a significant chunk of our salary cap on trying to unlock that. People say no contract is truly untradeable and that might be true but those bad deals that do get moved generally requires additional assets just to make it enticing enough for another team to take it.

I mean what are we giving up though? Saric, Shame and Chris...that's not a whole lot (I'll pause while I wait for the Dario fans to say they wouldn't trade him straight up for Simmons).......


And we're good. Simmons can offer what I want from OG if we trade for him: another 1st team defender to help Mikal out and make the switch more difficult. We also wouldn't have to hid cp3 anymore. I don't agree with GoK and I would actually play him at PG as it gives us the chance to keep CamJo in the starting line-up.

Simmons also runs alot, which would be better for this team as Mikal, Ayton and Booker would all benefit from that. We'd also probably get back Curry who's a .400 shooter from distance.

I don't think Booker cares about the Kardashian thing as these dudes probably have a number of the same chicks on their body count. Couldn't hurt imo as long as Book is cool with Ben again.

[bwoolf2]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

My thing is what other big name player or potential impact player are we saving that for as Paul will surely be gone next season and then we'll need to rebuild or reload around our core, but with very little flexibility anyways. Simmons for his salary and confidence concerns is still a 7 ft ballhandling/ playmaking guard who also just happens to be an ALL NBA level elite multipositional defender and playmaker. When was the last time we even realistically had a change at a player the level of Simmons or even a Collins? We simply aren't good or elite enough to flippantly pass on such opportunities. Because the reality is we haven't acquired or legitimately attracted any high end talent in over 3 yrs. At the very least, Simmons could be the answer to taking significant ballhandling and playmaking pressure off of Paul and Booker to help sustain them longer. And he could also handle our critical switch defensive issues against players like Luka, Ingram, Zion, JJJr, Giannis, Adebayo, etc.

He wouldn't even really be needed to provide offense, just really elite defense, ballhandling and playmaking. And again, he'd be a 40 million expiring contract for us to flip for another high end option after next season. So it wouldn't be like he'd cripple us financially. Lastly, he's another one of Book's friends and again an ALL NBA LEVEL TALENT!!! you get those whenever you can IF you can and figure out the B's and C's later.

BONUS Would be how absurdly elite a wing combo of Bridges and Simmons would he for us. But it would allow Bridges to finally guard the smaller wings and guards and roam free safety style whilst Simmons would guard the bigger, stronger wing/ forwards. But even IF you just can't stomach such risks, You still pursue this as a 3rd team facilitator to potentially get another quality piece or two coming back in the deal.

Just a correction him and Booker don't really like each other. The Jenner thing...

[TeamTragic]

Yeah, this is my preferred route. Not Simmons but the other stuff. I think that CP (and KD) are just too old for this core, which I really like even with its flaws. Build on this, try to treat the wounds. We are set at 2/3/5 for sure we have another good wing in Cam, we "only" need good role players at the 1 and possibly the 4. Not even all stars, just good bball players who fit in, do their jobs, not overpaid (by much), not headcases...Dinwiddie is one archeotype, Aaron Gordon would be another, etc... find players like them, let the team grow, gel, and we have a contender for the next 3-5 years.

(no, FVV is not one of these, he is a midget and not a PG)

Well....Booker and Simmons are pretty close lol. Can't imagine Booker would be angry about us getting him. He kinda sucks now, so there's that.

Close because of being Eskimo bros?

I have been laughing at this post the entire day

[bwgood77]

Kind of surprised the poll results are that skewed. I think Booker could play a role similar to the one Harden played or Luka, maybe with less usage but share with other ball handlers.

But you have to be concerned with his leg injuries and overall durability issues in a heavier usage primary guard facilitator role. That concern is likely why the heavy interest in still acquiring another ballhandling option?

Sure. I'd love a guy like Kyrie, and I would have loved FVV a couple years ago, but after this season and at $30 million? No thanks. I don't see any reason you can't have Booker and Bridges share ball handling duties and even CamJ some, and then you have Payne and/or Shamet to use sometimes too.

Now if we could get a star type guy fine, but if we are going to get an ok PG, and could get a better PF to plug in, I'd take the PF.

Like if we could get a guy like Jarred Vanderbilt (or preferabley someone similar who could hit the 3)...or even a Harrison Barnes type or possibly even Olynyk, I think that might be better than some expensive regressing small guard like Rozier and FVV.

I actually really liked and wanted Rozier and FVV earlier this season after their last couple years but they are both having bad seasons and are expensive.

[Slim Charless]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

My thing is what other big name player or potential impact player are we saving that for as Paul will surely be gone next season and then we'll need to rebuild or reload around our core, but with very little flexibility anyways. Simmons for his salary and confidence concerns is still a 7 ft ballhandling/ playmaking guard who also just happens to be an ALL NBA level elite multipositional defender and playmaker. When was the last time we even realistically had a change at a player the level of Simmons or even a Collins? We simply aren't good or elite enough to flippantly pass on such opportunities. Because the reality is we haven't acquired or legitimately attracted any high end talent in over 3 yrs. At the very least, Simmons could be the answer to taking significant ballhandling and playmaking pressure off of Paul and Booker to help sustain them longer. And he could also handle our critical switch defensive issues against players like Luka, Ingram, Zion, JJJr, Giannis, Adebayo, etc.

He wouldn't even really be needed to provide offense, just really elite defense, ballhandling and playmaking. And again, he'd be a 40 million expiring contract for us to flip for another high end option after next season. So it wouldn't be like he'd cripple us financially. Lastly, he's another one of Book's friends and again an ALL NBA LEVEL TALENT!!! you get those whenever you can IF you can and figure out the B's and C's later.

BONUS Would be how absurdly elite a wing combo of Bridges and Simmons would he for us. But it would allow Bridges to finally guard the smaller wings and guards and roam free safety style whilst Simmons would guard the bigger, stronger wing/ forwards. But even IF you just can't stomach such risks, You still pursue this as a 3rd team facilitator to potentially get another quality piece or two coming back in the deal.

Amen!!

Preach on Brother GoK, teach these non-believers!!



In all seriousness, we need to buy low on players like Simmons, before they actually get better and retain their value. I tried to same the same thing about trading for other players and am often met with the "this guy sucks, he'll never be the same! I don't wanna give *fill in the blank* for whomever"

Truth is we need to take a gamble if we're capped out. If you can take a risk and get an under 27 former all NBA player for Shame and Dario while doing right by CP3....you do it. If him and Book aren't having Kendall battles, then its all good to me.

[Fo-Real]

I think KD is out of our reach. I think DA continues to develope and maybe prospers in an uptempo offense when Chris leaves. Book is a cornerstone (nuff said), Bridges is getting better still at being a viable scoring option while still being a great defender. Cam has looked like the player they hope he can be. Our core is pretty solid and we have our picks going forward. Keep all of them and try to add to that with Crowder and maybe Sarics expiring. Get Payne back healthy, let Chris Pauls contract run its course this year and then trade or cut him...... draft and see what free-agents have interest. RIDE THIS BITCH OUT!!

[bwgood77]

Here is what we need to do. If we need to put together expirings and some 2nds, do it...or

convince his agent to take a buyout and tell him we will re-sign him for a cheap deal, or maybe a Haslem type thing..pay him the minimum until he's like 50.

Spoiler:

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[matt131]

According to Gambo, Ishbia's purchase of the Suns is set to be complete by Tuesday.

https://arizonasports.com/story/3487485/mat-ishbias-purchase-of-phoenix-suns-set-to-be-complete-by-tuesday/

[Qwigglez]

Another conspiracy side of me thinks, perhaps the Nets didn't want to trade for CP3, because they felt they were also going to trade KD. And they weren't going to get as much value out of CP3 as they could get from Dinwiddie and DFS maybe. I could see the Nets, if they wanted to trade KD, they could also facilitate a Dinwiddie and DFS trade to the Clippers for maybe 2 1st round picks and the Clippers give the Nets Luke Kennard, John Wall, and Reggie Jackson. This way, the Nets accumulate as many picks as possible for the future.

Still though, they can play and be a fun team with KD and the rest of the team they got I suppose.

Why would they trade KD though when they are going for so many win now pieces and it has been said by sources they want to build around KD.

That is why I said the conspiracy side of me. I could see the Nets riding the fence. They may want to reset and rebuild, however they also would like to compete if KD is willing to do that.