2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[TeamTragic]

According to Gambo, Ishbia's purchase of the Suns is set to be complete by Tuesday.

Finally some good news

[Desertfox]

We missed out on a buy low target in Markannen, if we can get Simmons, Dinwwidie, and Curry without losing any core player, you do it.

[lilfishi22]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

We are not getting under the salary cap anytime soon, and having such a contract would open up future trades, which is the only way for over the cap teams to improve, like Golden State did.

Useable cap space is one thing, luxury tax is another. It makes no sense to have an asset in the books for $40m that is giving you 2/5's of F all. Yes, Ishbia seems like he's happy to spend but the way LT is structured, it makes paying tax long term (like the Warriors) untenable very very quickly. Back when the Warriors had Oubre on a reasonable $14m contract, that seems like it's no big deal but the luxury tax ramifications means Oubre essentially cost $68m. I mean Ishbia is may be rich but he's not dumb.

I am also very confident Simmons isn't as easily moveable as you think. Nets would be over the moon if they can drop him as a pure salary dump.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Buy really low opportunity (IF Paul must go after this) to get an All NBA level defender and facilitator??
I personally would do it and run him at the 4 (defensively) in a Draymond Green type of role to minimize his current shooting/confidence deficiencies. He could come in handy in the playoffs as a switchable elite defender against the Luka's, Kwahi's, George's and Giannis's of the league! He's got two years left, But would be a massive expiring for us in 2024! Again, I only suggest this in interest of playing him at the 4, similar to how Golden state utilizes Green defensively and as a secondary frontcourt playmaker! And because his value is so low that it wouldn't really cost us any significant assets!

And IF we'd truly have no interest ourselves, Perhaps we could acquire him and then flip him in a three way trade to Toronto for Van Vleet and Anunoby or for Van Vleet and Trent? Or maybe to Utah for some combination of Sexton, Vanderbilt, Olynyk or Sexton, (Beasley or Clarkson), and Vandy?

Nope. Nets took the bait and now they are stuck with him. He just isn't the same player he was and yeah in theory he could be a Draymond lite but no one has really been able to unlock that. I sure as hell am not willing to gamble a significant chunk of our salary cap on trying to unlock that. People say no contract is truly untradeable and that might be true but those bad deals that do get moved generally requires additional assets just to make it enticing enough for another team to take it.

I would say just flip him elsewhere in a 3 team deal for other assets then as previously suggested. Maybe to Utah or Orlando or Charlotte?? IF we're not really interested in taking that risk. Although I don't really know who else we should be expecting to be a realistic get that's still an all NBA level defender with playmaking/ ballhandling ability that could take pressure off both Paul and Booker whilst also defending the perimeter and the frontcourt next to Ayton..it's not like these kind of buy low opportunities come around very often either!

But there's also the distinct possibility that the Nets may just not choose to deal with us anyways at all because of the apparent ludicrous levels of butthurt they seem to still have from the KD pursuit and they're revealing the trade package to screw us and screw up our chemistry. Nevertheless we absolutely should be all in on being a 3rd team facilitator to them moving Simmons or in a Toronto trade even if it yields a Boucher and Trent type return.

We must choose a directional move here! Either "ALL IN" this season before teams fully power up further or move Paul and don't go down the mediocre treadmill path!

If we trade for him, he's *our* problem until we can find a taker. We all know 3 team trades are complicated and generally difficult to pull off. And if we're not interested why/how would we convince someone else to take him off our hands? ALso he's not the all-NBA defender he once was

[lilfishi22]

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

We are not getting under the salary cap anytime soon, and having such a contract would open up future trades, which is the only way for over the cap teams to improve, like Golden State did.

This has validity. I am not sure Simmons is the right contract. But when you are an over the cap team - trading Saric, Crowder and Shamet for an expiring doesn't help. Shamet might help this summer

So do have to be smart about what player(s) you are trading for

100% agree we should be turning those expirings into medium/long term contracts. But Simmons is not it

[Qwigglez]

We missed out on a buy low target in Markannen, if we can get Simmons, Dinwwidie, and Curry without losing any core player, you do it.

I don't hate Simmons, and I would agree to trade for him if he didn't have a $35 million contract. That would gut the team however if he continues to put up 7.4 points, 6.4 assists, 6.5 rebounds. I do think he might be an ideal candidate for a CP3 replacement with Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and even Ayton being able to take over the scoring load, but it's a big risk.

I will say... if the cost was just Crowder, Shamet, and Dario, I probably do it. Only because Crowder provided no value to the team this year, Shamet had a couple of games of help, and Dario has recently been somewhat helpful.

[bwgood77]

Another conspiracy side of me thinks, perhaps the Nets didn't want to trade for CP3, because they felt they were also going to trade KD. And they weren't going to get as much value out of CP3 as they could get from Dinwiddie and DFS maybe. I could see the Nets, if they wanted to trade KD, they could also facilitate a Dinwiddie and DFS trade to the Clippers for maybe 2 1st round picks and the Clippers give the Nets Luke Kennard, John Wall, and Reggie Jackson. This way, the Nets accumulate as many picks as possible for the future.

Still though, they can play and be a fun team with KD and the rest of the team they got I suppose.

Why would they trade KD though when they are going for so many win now pieces and it has been said by sources they want to build around KD.

That is why I said the conspiracy side of me. I could see the Nets riding the fence. They may want to reset and rebuild, however they also would like to compete if KD is willing to do that.

Well KD definitely wants to compete. That seems well known.

[lilfishi22]

Why not take a flyier on Simmons if it's for peanuts? Say Crowder, Shamet, Saric for Simmons, Curry? If it doesn't work, you have a big contract to use in a future trade

How about trying to go after Dinwwidie? He wanted to be in Phoenix.

Like everyone is after KD but why not take advantage of an easier/lower level deal that makes us better? We have a good team, we don't need KD to be great. Especially if it means killing our future and depth.

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

My thing is what other big name player or potential impact player are we saving that for as Paul will surely be gone next season and then we'll need to rebuild or reload around our core, but with very little flexibility anyways. Simmons for his salary and confidence concerns is still a 7 ft ballhandling/ playmaking guard who also just happens to be an ALL NBA level elite multipositional defender and playmaker. When was the last time we even realistically had a change at a player the level of Simmons or even a Collins? We simply aren't good or elite enough to flippantly pass on such opportunities. Because the reality is we haven't acquired or legitimately attracted any high end talent in over 3 yrs. At the very least, Simmons could be the answer to taking significant ballhandling and playmaking pressure off of Paul and Booker to help sustain them longer. And he could also handle our critical switch defensive issues against players like Luka, Ingram, Zion, JJJr, Giannis, Adebayo, etc.

He wouldn't even really be needed to provide offense, just really elite defense, ballhandling and playmaking. And again, he'd be a 40 million expiring contract for us to flip for another high end option after next season. So it wouldn't be like he'd cripple us financially. Lastly, he's another one of Book's friends and again an ALL NBA LEVEL TALENT!!! you get those whenever you can IF you can and figure out the B's and C's later.

BONUS Would be how absurdly elite a wing combo of Bridges and Simmons would he for us. But it would allow Bridges to finally guard the smaller wings and guards and roam free safety style whilst Simmons would guard the bigger, stronger wing/ forwards. But even IF you just can't stomach such risks, You still pursue this as a 3rd team facilitator to potentially get another quality piece or two coming back in the deal.

Let me just remind you that we already have $32m a year committed to a guy who doesn't really create his own offense but plays solid defense ie, a good role palyer.

It makes zero sense to me to spend $40m on another role palyer who plays good defense but doesn't really create his own defense.

[bwgood77]

I can understand talking about trading for just about anyone, even if I think it's far fetched, but there is very very very little to no chance we would ever be willing to get Simmons.

Jones values shooters. He is vastly overpaid. He is very injury prone. He has other question marks.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Buy really low opportunity (IF Paul must go after this) to get an All NBA level defender and facilitator??
I personally would do it and run him at the 4 (defensively) in a Draymond Green type of role to minimize his current shooting/confidence deficiencies. He could come in handy in the playoffs as a switchable elite defender against the Luka's, Kwahi's, George's and Giannis's of the league! He's got two years left, But would be a massive expiring for us in 2024! Again, I only suggest this in interest of playing him at the 4, similar to how Golden state utilizes Green defensively and as a secondary frontcourt playmaker! And because his value is so low that it wouldn't really cost us any significant assets!

And IF we'd truly have no interest ourselves, Perhaps we could acquire him and then flip him in a three way trade to Toronto for Van Vleet and Anunoby or for Van Vleet and Trent? Or maybe to Utah for some combination of Sexton, Vanderbilt, Olynyk or Sexton, (Beasley or Clarkson), and Vandy?

Nope. Nets took the bait and now they are stuck with him. He just isn't the same player he was and yeah in theory he could be a Draymond lite but no one has really been able to unlock that. I sure as hell am not willing to gamble a significant chunk of our salary cap on trying to unlock that. People say no contract is truly untradeable and that might be true but those bad deals that do get moved generally requires additional assets just to make it enticing enough for another team to take it.

I mean what are we giving up though? Saric, Shame and Chris...that's not a whole lot (I'll pause while I wait for the Dario fans to say they wouldn't trade him straight up for Simmons).......


And we're good. Simmons can offer what I want from OG if we trade for him: another 1st team defender to help Mikal out and make the switch more difficult. We also wouldn't have to hid cp3 anymore. I don't agree with GoK and I would actually play him at PG as it gives us the chance to keep CamJo in the starting line-up.

Simmons also runs alot, which would be better for this team as Mikal, Ayton and Booker would all benefit from that. We'd also probably get back Curry who's a .400 shooter from distance.

I don't think Booker cares about the Kardashian thing as these dudes probably have a number of the same chicks on their body count. Couldn't hurt imo as long as Book is cool with Ben again.

Like Kyrie, the risk/gamble isn't what we're giving up but what we're buying into and opportunity costs. I'd rather a guy like OG who maybe isn't as good a playmaker but also doesn't have some fundamental flaw in his game like Simmons.

The give up isn't significant but the commitment of $80m to Simmons over 2yrs for 7/6/6 is. As is the implication of luxury tax moving forward, every $1 becomes $3.25 over a certain threshold and it turns even reasonable salary like the TPMLE which is around $6-7m a year into a nearly $30m hit to the P&L.

We're already a luxury tax paying team and when you're trying to be a contender, you have to be really really clear and resolute the money you're spending is actually going to pay dividends.

[BobbieL]

I can understand talking about trading for just about anyone, even if I think it's far fetched, but there is very very very little to no chance we would ever be willing to get Simmons.

Jones values shooters. He is vastly overpaid. He is very injury prone. He has other question marks.

It truly has been pretty quiet about what the Suns are looking for - other than the one rumor Gambo suggested about the Jazz

Woj was saying this morning not too many sellers - so the prices might be higher. But a guy like Ainge - he sees the long term view - he might be okay with a future FRP

[lilfishi22]

We missed out on a buy low target in Markannen, if we can get Simmons, Dinwwidie, and Curry without losing any core player, you do it.

I don't hate Simmons, and I would agree to trade for him if he didn't have a $35 million contract. That would gut the team however if he continues to put up 7.4 points, 6.4 assists, 6.5 rebounds. I do think he might be an ideal candidate for a CP3 replacement with Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and even Ayton being able to take over the scoring load, but it's a big risk.

I will say... if the cost was just Crowder, Shamet, and Dario, I probably do it. Only because Crowder provided no value to the team this year, Shamet had a couple of games of help, and Dario has recently been somewhat helpful.

I also wouldn't mind taking a punt on Simmons, if he wasn't on max money. His next contract would make him more attractive but his max contract now just isn't

[Slim Charless]

We missed out on a buy low target in Markannen, if we can get Simmons, Dinwwidie, and Curry without losing any core player, you do it.

I don't hate Simmons, and I would agree to trade for him if he didn't have a $35 million contract. That would gut the team however if he continues to put up 7.4 points, 6.4 assists, 6.5 rebounds. I do think he might be an ideal candidate for a CP3 replacement with Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and even Ayton being able to take over the scoring load, but it's a big risk.

I will say... if the cost was just Crowder, Shamet, and Dario, I probably do it. Only because Crowder provided no value to the team this year, Shamet had a couple of games of help, and Dario has recently been somewhat helpful.

I also wouldn't mind taking a punt on Simmons, if he wasn't on max money. His next contract would make him more attractive but his max contract now just isn't

Well we're not getting OG for a Crowder/Shame package. It's gonna cost A LOT more. Like picks plus everyone's favorite CamJo....but no one here wants to do that either.

If we want high quality talent, we have to give up assets, like legit ones. Or we have to roll the dice on players who seem washed.....but are still young.

My opinion at least.

[bhawk]

Regarding Ben Simmons:

Strike One: Not sure where or when I heard this, but there is bad blood between Booker and Simmons. We don't want a player to further disrupt our already BAD team chemistry. I think it was Barkley who said the other day... "they don't like each other".

Strike Two: Simmons can't shoot. Not sure if anyone has watched him... ever... but he is epically bad at shooting the basketball.

Strike Three: I personally question his heart and motivations after the Embid / 76er's drama. The guys played the "I'm not mentally right" card last year, and singlehandedly held a franchise hostage until they traded him.

Can we stop talking about this guy please? He. Will. NOT. Help. The. Suns.

[lilfishi22]

I don't hate Simmons, and I would agree to trade for him if he didn't have a $35 million contract. That would gut the team however if he continues to put up 7.4 points, 6.4 assists, 6.5 rebounds. I do think he might be an ideal candidate for a CP3 replacement with Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and even Ayton being able to take over the scoring load, but it's a big risk.

I will say... if the cost was just Crowder, Shamet, and Dario, I probably do it. Only because Crowder provided no value to the team this year, Shamet had a couple of games of help, and Dario has recently been somewhat helpful.

I also wouldn't mind taking a punt on Simmons, if he wasn't on max money. His next contract would make him more attractive but his max contract now just isn't

Well we're not getting OG for a Crowder/Shame package. It's gonna cost A LOT more. Like picks plus everyone's favorite CamJo....but no one here wants to do that either.

If we want high quality talent, we have to give up assets, like legit ones. Or we have to roll the dice on players who seem washed.....but are still young.

My opinion at least.

Yes, agree you have to give up something good to get something good. I'm all for rolling the dice, within reason and for the right gamble.

We're in a spot right now where we could very easily fall onto a treadmill. One wrong move, e.g a major financial/contractual commitment to a guy who has red flags all over him and we're on that treadmill for some time. If Simmons had one year left and all it cost was guys who weren't playing a ton anyway, sure I could get on board with that gamble but he is in the books for $40m next season as well and based on recent reports nobody wants him. That has real financial implications on resigning a guy like CamJo or signing other guys in free agency with our exceptions.

[Sunlight]

JJ, make it happen.

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[Blonde]

Regarding the poll, I’d love to play Booker at PG if we had a Draymond/Randle/Odom type at the PF who can playmake and run offense at times. If we don’t have a guy like that, then a starting PG or combo guard will be a necessity. I’ve always wanted Fox next to Booker but that doesn’t feel realistic anymore. Lonzo if his knee can ever recover would be a good option too.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Because $80m owing is NOT peanuts.

My thing is what other big name player or potential impact player are we saving that for as Paul will surely be gone next season and then we'll need to rebuild or reload around our core, but with very little flexibility anyways. Simmons for his salary and confidence concerns is still a 7 ft ballhandling/ playmaking guard who also just happens to be an ALL NBA level elite multipositional defender and playmaker. When was the last time we even realistically had a change at a player the level of Simmons or even a Collins? We simply aren't good or elite enough to flippantly pass on such opportunities. Because the reality is we haven't acquired or legitimately attracted any high end talent in over 3 yrs. At the very least, Simmons could be the answer to taking significant ballhandling and playmaking pressure off of Paul and Booker to help sustain them longer. And he could also handle our critical switch defensive issues against players like Luka, Ingram, Zion, JJJr, Giannis, Adebayo, etc.

He wouldn't even really be needed to provide offense, just really elite defense, ballhandling and playmaking. And again, he'd be a 40 million expiring contract for us to flip for another high end option after next season. So it wouldn't be like he'd cripple us financially. Lastly, he's another one of Book's friends and again an ALL NBA LEVEL TALENT!!! you get those whenever you can IF you can and figure out the B's and C's later.

BONUS Would be how absurdly elite a wing combo of Bridges and Simmons would he for us. But it would allow Bridges to finally guard the smaller wings and guards and roam free safety style whilst Simmons would guard the bigger, stronger wing/ forwards. But even IF you just can't stomach such risks, You still pursue this as a 3rd team facilitator to potentially get another quality piece or two coming back in the deal.

Amen!!

Preach on Brother GoK, teach these non-believers!!



In all seriousness, we need to buy low on players like Simmons, before they actually get better and retain their value. I tried to same the same thing about trading for other players and am often met with the "this guy sucks, he'll never be the same! I don't wanna give *fill in the blank* for whomever"

Truth is we need to take a gamble if we're capped out. If you can take a risk and get an under 27 former all NBA player for Shame and Dario while doing right by CP3....you do it. If him and Book aren't having Kendall battles, then its all good to me.

Yeah! you were like the 1st one here I believe to have the vision to seek adding high end talent in a buy low scenario seeing as how we've not really attracted or acquired anyone of note since Paul got here. Even though that's what we were sold on when we first acquired Paul! That big names and star talent would come here! We really need to take some risks to make that jump like we did with the Barkley trade back in the day.

Now the reason I mentioned playing Simmons at the 4 defensively and in a Draymond Green defensive and playmaking role is because I originally didn't have Paul in the trade for Simmons. Seeing as his current value is zero, I was thinking something along the lines of expirings and a lightly protected 1st. Maybe a Saric/Crowder/ Craig/Payne/ future top 10 protected) 1st that they can flip elsewhere or buy out if they like? OR else in a 3 team trade with Toronto, wherein they'd get back Van Vleet and maybe Boucher/filler? Just basically matching salaries that could save them money, and get them an additional asset back perhaps? Then we'd run a Paul/Book/Bridges/Simmons/ Ayton lineup? Fill in the bench for a deep run with fillers in the trade, buyout candidates, etc?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Would any of these teams say no?

Suns get -
D'Angelo Russell

Wolves get -
Fred Van Vleet
Jae Crowder

Raptors get -
Landry Shamet
Dario Saric
Jaylen Nowell
2 2nd round picks from Suns
2nd round pick from NY from Wolves

Wolves want more vet leadership and guarantee making the playoffs. Raptors probably want a 1st. D'Lo fits the timeline of the rest of the Suns cast.

I like it! But I'd imagine the raps are expecting at the very least, a 1st or even two for Van Vleet unfortunately!