Pascal is on the brink of SUPERSTARDOM...

[DelAbbot]

I haven't been in this thread much because there are so many similar threads about trades, but damn, I just learned that Gordon is better than Siakam.

This board never ceases to amaze.

Moving on.

But aren't these same advanced stats being used to push the narrative that Fred is a top 40 player and better than so and so? I'm just trying this approach out

[Duffman100]

I haven't been in this thread much because there are so many similar threads about trades, but damn, I just learned that Gordon is better than Siakam.

This board never ceases to amaze.

Moving on.

But aren't these same advanced stats being used to push the narrative that Fred is a top 40 player and better than so and so? I'm just trying this approach out

So you're either trolling or you're incapable of analytical thought? Which one do you want it to be?

[DelAbbot]

I haven't been in this thread much because there are so many similar threads about trades, but damn, I just learned that Gordon is better than Siakam.

This board never ceases to amaze.

Moving on.

But aren't these same advanced stats being used to push the narrative that Fred is a top 40 player and better than so and so? I'm just trying this approach out

So you're either trolling or you're incapable of analytical thought? Which one do you want it to be?

I took the time to look this up and so obviously I'm not trolling. I frequently label myself as a casual so I don't mind being called that

[Duffman100]

But aren't these same advanced stats being used to push the narrative that Fred is a top 40 player and better than so and so? I'm just trying this approach out

So you're either trolling or you're incapable of analytical thought? Which one do you want it to be?

I took the time to look this up and so obviously I'm not trolling. I frequently label myself as a casual so I don't mind being called that

Just because you took the time to look up stats doesn't mean you're not trolling. You even hint that you are to prove a point about Fred.

[ItsDanger]

Read on Twitter

Need the counting stats to be considered top 5. Man's got to know his limitations.

[deck]

Superstar? Top15? Raps current culture is about seeking individual achievement before the team. That should be more concerning than anything else.

Sooo.... That's a pass on Victor and Scoot then? A hard no on trying to acquire a Giannis type player?

WTF are you even talking about? We need good players, top 15 players, surely even posters like yourself would agree. Some of y'all talk out of both side of your mouth. Do you not want / hope that Pascal could elevate his game to be in the top 15 conversation? Would you rather that his value around the league be considered lower than Arron fking Gordon?

I personally don't believe Siakam is a top 15 player, but I also don't believe he is going out there every night thinking about how can I get mine to the determent of the team. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

[ItsDanger]

Superstar? Top15? Raps current culture is about seeking individual achievement before the team. That should be more concerning than anything else.

Sooo.... That's a pass on Victor and Scoot then? A hard no on trying to acquire a Giannis type player?

WTF are you even talking about? We need good players, top 15 players, surely even posters like yourself would agree. Some of y'all talk out of both side of your mouth. Do you not want / hope that Pascal could elevate his game to be in the top 15 conversation? Would you rather that his value around the league be considered lower than Arron fking Gordon?

I personally don't believe Siakam is a top 15 player, but I also don't believe he is going out there every night thinking about how can I get mine to the determent of the team. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Lots of players do it. He wouldn't be the first guy. Stat chasing above your weight is a detriment to team performance.

[Fairview4Life]

I would also like Pascal to become a top 5 player.

[deck]

Superstar? Top15? Raps current culture is about seeking individual achievement before the team. That should be more concerning than anything else.

Sooo.... That's a pass on Victor and Scoot then? A hard no on trying to acquire a Giannis type player?

WTF are you even talking about? We need good players, top 15 players, surely even posters like yourself would agree. Some of y'all talk out of both side of your mouth. Do you not want / hope that Pascal could elevate his game to be in the top 15 conversation? Would you rather that his value around the league be considered lower than Arron fking Gordon?

I personally don't believe Siakam is a top 15 player, but I also don't believe he is going out there every night thinking about how can I get mine to the determent of the team. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Lots of players do it. He wouldn't be the first guy. Stat chasing above your weight is a detriment to team performance.

I've not seen anything watching Siakam play that suggests he is stat chasing. And virtually every player has aspirations to be better than they are, and I would be dismayed to have a Ben Simmons type player who is content to play video games and cash his paychecks. Siakam has improved his game year over year. So again, where is this narrative coming from?

[ItsDanger]

Sooo.... That's a pass on Victor and Scoot then? A hard no on trying to acquire a Giannis type player?

WTF are you even talking about? We need good players, top 15 players, surely even posters like yourself would agree. Some of y'all talk out of both side of your mouth. Do you not want / hope that Pascal could elevate his game to be in the top 15 conversation? Would you rather that his value around the league be considered lower than Arron fking Gordon?

I personally don't believe Siakam is a top 15 player, but I also don't believe he is going out there every night thinking about how can I get mine to the determent of the team. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Lots of players do it. He wouldn't be the first guy. Stat chasing above your weight is a detriment to team performance.

I've not seen anything watching Siakam play that suggests he is stat chasing. And virtually every player has aspirations to be better than they are, and I would be dismayed to have a Ben Simmons type player who is content to play video games and cash his paychecks. Siakam has improved his game year over year. So again, where is this narrative coming from?

Where? Watching the games. It's even prevalent in his stats. Elite playmaker assists have fallen off a cliff lately. Not hunting the rebounds as much now. Maybe at some stage, he had a realization about the point I'm making here. That stat chasing hurts the team.

[YogurtProducer]

Pascal is a fine player as I and many have said - he slows down as the year goes on and with his lack of shooting and defense falling off makes him not some untouchable.

Better players than Pascal have been traded.

The affinity should be to winning - not players.

Did he not have some of his best months to close out 2021-22? Where is the "he slows down" thing coming from?

[Fairview4Life]

This season, Pascal's usage is a bit higher in wins than losses. And we basically win more when he makes his shots. Last season, it was even more pronounced. We won when his usage was a lot higher than in our losses.

Selfishly chase those stats Pascal. It helps the team win.

[YogurtProducer]

Lots of players do it. He wouldn't be the first guy. Stat chasing above your weight is a detriment to team performance.

I've not seen anything watching Siakam play that suggests he is stat chasing. And virtually every player has aspirations to be better than they are, and I would be dismayed to have a Ben Simmons type player who is content to play video games and cash his paychecks. Siakam has improved his game year over year. So again, where is this narrative coming from?

Where? Watching the games. It's even prevalent in his stats. Elite playmaker assists have fallen off a cliff lately. Not hunting the rebounds as much now. Maybe at some stage, he had a realization about the point I'm making here. That stat chasing hurts the team.

What are you even talking about at this point?

[YogurtProducer]

This season, Pascal's usage is a bit higher in wins than losses. And we basically win more when he makes his shots. Last season, it was even more pronounced. We won when his usage was a lot higher than in our losses.

Selfishly chase those stats Pascal. It helps the team win.

That makes sense though. If he has it going = higher usage = more wins.

[YogurtProducer]

I haven't been in this thread much because there are so many similar threads about trades, but damn, I just learned that Gordon is better than Siakam.

This board never ceases to amaze.

Moving on.

And then it is the same people who are surprised when no one takes their takes seriously

[deck]

This season, Pascal's usage is a bit higher in wins than losses. And we basically win more when he makes his shots. Last season, it was even more pronounced. We won when his usage was a lot higher than in our losses.

Selfishly chase those stats Pascal. It helps the team win.

It is so confusing to see the same posters rightfully begging for a Donovan Mitchell type player that can create their own shot and be a focal point on offense, and then within the same breath disparage our only player that even comes close to fitting that mold. Siakam could always be better, but imagine for a moment how much worse our offense this year would have been if we had Arron Gordon instead of Siakam. SMH...

[Fairview4Life]

This season, Pascal's usage is a bit higher in wins than losses. And we basically win more when he makes his shots. Last season, it was even more pronounced. We won when his usage was a lot higher than in our losses.

Selfishly chase those stats Pascal. It helps the team win.

It is so confusing to see the same posters rightfully begging for a Donovan Mitchell type player that can create their own shot and be a focal point on offense, and then within the same breath disparage our only player that even comes close to fitting that mold. Siakam could always be better, but imagine for a moment how much worse our offense this year would have been if we had Arron Gordon instead of Siakam. SMH...

Oh man, if you thought the complaints about Fred were bad today. Yikes.

[Spates]

Read on Twitter

Need the counting stats to be considered top 5. Man's got to know his limitations.

This is relevant. The clip at least.

By no means is Gordon a better player than Pascal. Siakam is far more versatile as he can operate out of different roles. In 2019 he was an incredibly switchable defender, a menace in transition, and effective in the half court with pick and pops and dunker spot action. Pascal was primarily a "finisher". If he continued in that role he'd at least be as impactful as Gordon is now in a similar role. But Pascal has gone beyond that as he's developed as a creator. Whether it's his ideal role is a fair debate but he's shown capacity to do so.

It's certainly fair to ask if Gordon is more impactful as a switchable defender operating out of the dunker spot than Pascal is as a lead creator.

It's a little strange to me that people consider Pascal as a 2nd option both in 2019 and now as he's a totally different player. The label is applied with a period. He has aspirations to be a top 5 guy. And it looks like, from how he's developing his game, that this requires him to have the ball. I doubt there'll be a role rewind, at least with this team.

Finishers with secondary/tertiary creation responsibility are just as impactful as anyone not named LeBron or Luka. I think Pascal's ideal role lies somewhere between Anthony Davis and Aaron Gordon rather than Jaylen Brown/Paul George.

[Spates]

Del, fantastic trolling btw.

[DelAbbot]

:wink: Del, fantastic trolling btw.

It was not my intention to troll. My motivation was to counter-argue that Siakam is a lock for All-NBA/top 15 this season.