Game 56, The Return of Book: Phoenix Suns (29-26) @ Brooklyn Nets (32-21)

[lilfishi22]

I mean can we just be happy we won this game, DA had a great game and Book is back?

[bwgood77]

Now ditch him

If he is still here after the deadline he will make a couple mistakes one game and people will be ready to pounce.

It's not a couple and you know that. When he's not engaged, he looks like a bust out there. That's what is frustrating. He's more than capable of playing like this nearly every game, he just isn't always engaged. Maybe he needs adderall or something.

Sometimes he has great games, sometimes he has decent games. On a rare occasion he has a really bad game like that 6/20 game.

Same goes for most players. He just takes a lot of heat due to being a high pick, them giving him a rookie max, etc. He has regressed on the advanced stat sheets in some areas (defense/efficiency) but that is likely in large part to being one of like two quality guys playing with scrubs and shuffling lineups. It was never the fault we were missing like 5-7 players but Ayton's fault if we lost those. Saying he could never be a #1 (not that I think he can either) but no one could have consistenly won with those rosters.

The thing is, he has more responsibility on both sides of the ball than anyone. Typically our offensive guys sit on 3 pt shooters on D and our defensive guys are floor spreaders on offense for the most part.

Anyway, not worth arguing. I noticed in one play tonight the ball was going out of bounds and him and Bridges were going to get it and Ayton stopped and let Bridges get it. It made me think of that other time where they both accidentally stopped thinking the other was getting it...I think you said that was it for you with Ayton and you want him gone.

Anyway, yes, people can cheer him on when he puts up #s and bash him when he makes mistakes. That is what many do.

I understand players have highs and lows and don't pick apart every little play or blame someone for losing an entire game because of some play at the end even when we are missing half our players.

[bwgood77]

Moronty and Booker almost lost us this game. Moronty took our best player in this game out again when 50s left. Maybe next time Booker out. Ayton made both FTs when things really matters and Booker missed both of his.

Have seen now great shooters miss both FTs at end of game a few times since Ayton missed that one vs Blazers. The haters didn't miss the opportunity to call him a mental midget on that one, that's for sure.

It happens. It's happened with Book on numerous occasions, but happened with Bridges, Ayton, etc. You just hear about it more with Ayton. For example when Book got stuffed on a potential game winning (or tying) shot against Miami by Butler, no one said much. If Embiid did the exact same thing to Ayton we would have never heard the end of it.

[bwgood77]

I mean can we just be happy we won this game, DA had a great game and Book is back?

Yeah, I'm happy. It's just even in your comments you have to throw in some sort of disingenous jab at Ayton that takes away from it a bit, saying he plays well once every 5 games.

Look at his last 5 games for an example. 6 games ago he did have that "terrible" 19pt/20 reb 10 FTA worst game ever going 6/20, but since then he's looked solid and great quite often. And in many other games this season. Neither him or Bridges looked too good most of the stretch where they were the only two starters available, but they took a lot of heat then.

Here is the game log since you are usually working.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2023

You will note there are a number of bad games in there, but not 4 out of 5..or even close. More like 3 out of 10 are subpar and most of those coming off injury and/or during our decimated team stretch.

[Sunlight]

Moronty and Booker almost lost us this game. Moronty took our best player in this game out again when 50s left. Maybe next time Booker out. Ayton made both FTs when things really matters and Booker missed both of his.

Have seen now great shooters miss both FTs at end of game a few times since Ayton missed that one vs Blazers. The haters didn't miss the opportunity to call him a mental midget on that one, that's for sure.

It happens. It's happened with Book on numerous occasions, but happened with Bridges, Ayton, etc. You just hear about it more with Ayton. For example when Book got stuffed on a potential game winning (or tying) shot against Miami by Butler, no one said much. If Embiid did the exact same thing to Ayton we would have never heard the end of it.

I just don't understand why Monty always takes Ayton out if we are defending the lead at the end. He can't defend threes is always the same explanation. How about an easy layup as we saw again today or possibly lost offensive rebound to opponent because small lineup. Hit threes is still only 40% and much lower at the end when its coming more mental. At the same time easy layup much higher procent to make when no rim protection. I'm just worried about Monty's game management errors.

[lilfishi22]

I mean can we just be happy we won this game, DA had a great game and Book is back?

Yeah, I'm happy. It's just even in your comments you have to throw in some sort of disingenous jab at Ayton that takes away from it a bit, saying he plays well once every 5 games.

Look at his last 5 games for an example. 6 games ago he did have that "terrible" 19pt/20 reb 10 FTA worst game ever going 6/20, but since then he's looked solid and great quite often. And in many other games this season. Neither him or Bridges looked too good most of the stretch where they were the only two starters available, but they took a lot of heat then.

Here is the game log since you are usually working.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2023

You will note there are a number of bad games in there, but not 4 out of 5..or even close. More like 3 out of 10 are subpar and most of those coming off injury and/or during our decimated team stretch.

If you want to go there, I'm happy to go there

[Saberestar]

What a terrific game from Ayton. 35 and 15...Claxton DPOY LOL.

[sasquatchBob]

Trade Kyrie and Cam Thomas goes 40+ points in next 3 games. Dude looks legit.

[Saberestar]

Trade Kyrie and Cam Thomas goes 40+ points in next 3 games. Dude looks legit.

He looks amazing as an scorer.

He reminds me of Dion Waiters, but without being a headcase. He has strong legs and jumps very high on his jumpshots...so difficult to bother him with that elevation.

[sasquatchBob]

Trade Kyrie and Cam Thomas goes 40+ points in next 3 games. Dude looks legit.

He looks amazing as an scorer.

He reminds me of Dion Waiters, but without being a headcase. He has strong legs and jumps very high on his jumpshots...so difficult to bother him with that elevation.

Solid comparison to be honest. I see it.

[thamadkant]

I mean can we just be happy we won this game, DA had a great game and Book is back?

Yeah, I'm happy. It's just even in your comments you have to throw in some sort of disingenous jab at Ayton that takes away from it a bit, saying he plays well once every 5 games.

Look at his last 5 games for an example. 6 games ago he did have that "terrible" 19pt/20 reb 10 FTA worst game ever going 6/20, but since then he's looked solid and great quite often. And in many other games this season. Neither him or Bridges looked too good most of the stretch where they were the only two starters available, but they took a lot of heat then.

Here is the game log since you are usually working.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2023

You will note there are a number of bad games in there, but not 4 out of 5..or even close. More like 3 out of 10 are subpar and most of those coming off injury and/or during our decimated team stretch.

Man, you don't have to justify the Ayton haters about them saying Ayton plays well once every 5 games. Everyone who watches the suns would know Ayton is one of the most consistent players. When he gets the ball early and often he will put up 25 points or more. When he doesn't, he just gets his normal 15 to 17 points a game.
His 6 for 20 game was a super rare occasion and anyone who watched that game would see he was missing shots he hits 90% rate for the last 4 years or so... and some he just rushed. He wasn't himself basically. But 20 rebounds showed he was trying to contribute at other aspects.

And the funniest thing to me is that when Suns fans say Ayton can do this every game. As in put up 30 points and 15 rebounds a game. Basically he can be Giannis. Except that Giannis is the focal point of Bucks offense and he gets a lot of time isolating up to to get one on one against defenders with shooters around him... basically Giannis puts up 30 a night being a shot creator with the ball in his hands....
So the Suns fans who think Ayton should do this every night are being super unrealistic with such a high bar for Ayton. Who rarely has opportunities to go isolation against single defenders nor does he control the ball during possessions. Ayton plays Prime Horford's role on the Suns basically... he is a facilitating big who decoys inside to free up the perimeter. In order for him to put 30 and 15 every night at that role he the Suns system would need to be dismantled and have a half court inside outside approach with Ayton getting screens so he gets one on one down low and shooters spreading the space. It would mean CP3 and Booker becomes a 3D catch and shoot player. It would also mean Ayton needs to flop more to get calls.

Basically it's illogical to expect Ayton to put up 30 15 in the suns system and his role as 3rd option.

20/11 at super efficient FG% and facilitating the offense for Booker and others while being a positive defender at worst is Ayton's call. He could get to 22ppg if he become clear 2nd scoring option with 17 FGA minimum... but it would not be in this Monty's current system.


Point is... the bar for Ayton is unfair in a way but he was picked 1 over Luka and that fact matters to some suns fans... that and he is paid 33M a year. What isn't factored in is that Ayton is easily worth 33M on many teams and only worth sometimes on the Suns due to the system. But that sometimes is likely to come playoffs so it's worth it.

[Puff]

I mean can we just be happy we won this game, DA had a great game and Book is back?

No sheet

Some real miserable folks on this board.

I expect that they would be happier with Earl Watson as our coach. After all, the Raptors are doing really well with him sitting next to the head coach. That GM is a freaking genius in Toronto.

Everybody wants virtually all of their players, but they are playing way below expectations.

[Puff]

If he is still here after the deadline he will make a couple mistakes one game and people will be ready to pounce.

It's not a couple and you know that. When he's not engaged, he looks like a bust out there. That's what is frustrating. He's more than capable of playing like this nearly every game, he just isn't always engaged. Maybe he needs adderall or something.

Sometimes he has great games, sometimes he has decent games. On a rare occasion he has a really bad game like that 6/20 game.

Same goes for most players. He just takes a lot of heat due to being a high pick, them giving him a rookie max, etc. He has regressed on the advanced stat sheets in some areas (defense/efficiency) but that is likely in large part to being one of like two quality guys playing with scrubs and shuffling lineups. It was never the fault we were missing like 5-7 players but Ayton's fault if we lost those. Saying he could never be a #1 (not that I think he can either) but no one could have consistenly won with those rosters.

The thing is, he has more responsibility on both sides of the ball than anyone. Typically our offensive guys sit on 3 pt shooters on D and our defensive guys are floor spreaders on offense for the most part.

Anyway, not worth arguing. I noticed in one play tonight the ball was going out of bounds and him and Bridges were going to get it and Ayton stopped and let Bridges get it. It made me think of that other time where they both accidentally stopped thinking the other was getting it...I think you said that was it for you with Ayton and you want him gone.

Anyway, yes, people can cheer him on when he puts up #s and bash him when he makes mistakes. That is what many do.

I understand players have highs and lows and don't pick apart every little play or blame someone for losing an entire game because of some play at the end even when we are missing half our players.

You don't get it.

Our complaints, against Ayton is how much energy he brings. He often appears to be on another planet most of the game. When he plays with energy he is always appreciated. That is what we ask. Every night not just once in a while. That should not be too much to ask.

[BobbieL]

It's not a couple and you know that. When he's not engaged, he looks like a bust out there. That's what is frustrating. He's more than capable of playing like this nearly every game, he just isn't always engaged. Maybe he needs adderall or something.

Sometimes he has great games, sometimes he has decent games. On a rare occasion he has a really bad game like that 6/20 game.

Same goes for most players. He just takes a lot of heat due to being a high pick, them giving him a rookie max, etc. He has regressed on the advanced stat sheets in some areas (defense/efficiency) but that is likely in large part to being one of like two quality guys playing with scrubs and shuffling lineups. It was never the fault we were missing like 5-7 players but Ayton's fault if we lost those. Saying he could never be a #1 (not that I think he can either) but no one could have consistenly won with those rosters.

The thing is, he has more responsibility on both sides of the ball than anyone. Typically our offensive guys sit on 3 pt shooters on D and our defensive guys are floor spreaders on offense for the most part.

Anyway, not worth arguing. I noticed in one play tonight the ball was going out of bounds and him and Bridges were going to get it and Ayton stopped and let Bridges get it. It made me think of that other time where they both accidentally stopped thinking the other was getting it...I think you said that was it for you with Ayton and you want him gone.

Anyway, yes, people can cheer him on when he puts up #s and bash him when he makes mistakes. That is what many do.

I understand players have highs and lows and don't pick apart every little play or blame someone for losing an entire game because of some play at the end even when we are missing half our players.

You don't get it.

Our complaints, against Ayton is how much energy he brings. He often appears to be on another planet most of the game. When he plays with energy he is always appreciated. That is what we ask. Every night not just once in a while. That should not be too much to ask.

That’s it. Bring the effort. Even if he shoots terrible - 12 boards , a few blocks.

Atlanta next - who won’t be there?

[Jdiddy701]

It's not a couple and you know that. When he's not engaged, he looks like a bust out there. That's what is frustrating. He's more than capable of playing like this nearly every game, he just isn't always engaged. Maybe he needs adderall or something.

Sometimes he has great games, sometimes he has decent games. On a rare occasion he has a really bad game like that 6/20 game.

Same goes for most players. He just takes a lot of heat due to being a high pick, them giving him a rookie max, etc. He has regressed on the advanced stat sheets in some areas (defense/efficiency) but that is likely in large part to being one of like two quality guys playing with scrubs and shuffling lineups. It was never the fault we were missing like 5-7 players but Ayton's fault if we lost those. Saying he could never be a #1 (not that I think he can either) but no one could have consistenly won with those rosters.

The thing is, he has more responsibility on both sides of the ball than anyone. Typically our offensive guys sit on 3 pt shooters on D and our defensive guys are floor spreaders on offense for the most part.

Anyway, not worth arguing. I noticed in one play tonight the ball was going out of bounds and him and Bridges were going to get it and Ayton stopped and let Bridges get it. It made me think of that other time where they both accidentally stopped thinking the other was getting it...I think you said that was it for you with Ayton and you want him gone.

Anyway, yes, people can cheer him on when he puts up #s and bash him when he makes mistakes. That is what many do.

I understand players have highs and lows and don't pick apart every little play or blame someone for losing an entire game because of some play at the end even when we are missing half our players.

You don't get it.

Our complaints, against Ayton is how much energy he brings. He often appears to be on another planet most of the game. When he plays with energy he is always appreciated. That is what we ask. Every night not just once in a while. That should not be too much to ask.

Yep, exactly. The way DA played yesterday was great. It’s always about effort to me, if that’s there, he’s is great. People can make all the excuses in the world but can’t ever make an excuse for effort. Most games, there isn’t effort and that’s frustrating.

Players will struggle, I don’t mind miss shots.. as long as he’s protecting the paint, setting good screens and finishing at the rim with force.

We need him to play well, if he plays with effort, the Suns are a totally different team. The reason we’ve been searching for the next star to pair with Book is because HE hasn’t lived up to expectations. It’s all on him and how he approaches each game with his effort.


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[Calvin Klein]

Nice win. I also can't really understand why Craig is so so bad at passing the ball. He should be nowhere near the court in that situation.

He makes passes I see people make at pick up games.

[handsome salary]

Today I am not down on the team and enjoyed watching the game. Success.

[kennydorglas]

Tank commander hyping up his value.
NICEEEEEE

[sunsbg]

Tank commander hyping up his value.
NICEEEEEE

Enough so they don't trade him. Sun forever, sorry.

[sunsbg]

Nice win. I also can't really understand why Craig is so so bad at passing the ball. He should be nowhere near the court in that situation.

He makes passes I see people make at pick up games.

It's clear Monty wants to exchange twos for FTs at end of game based on previous games too , but defending the 3, which ends in uncontested 2 and leaving suspect FT shooter like Craig in the game is plain stupid.