Knicks trade for Josh Hart

[Fury]

People are saying Knicks overpaid

thoughts?

Knick tax

[mpharris36]

Smaller stakes deals, smaller drawbacks. At worst if this doesn't work out we lose a non lottery pick or 4 2nds. We don't resign Hart.

At worst if KD doesn't work out (likely) we suck until 2030. If Mitchell doesn't work out we repeat the Melo years.

It's the Morey school of team building. Acquire easier to get but still positive value contracts, middling picks, and stay around .500 until the chance for a star that will actually make a big difference comes along. Harden or bust.

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

Statistically speaking that's not true. Look at the Pels, they were middling when they got Zion and were able to flip the switch to contention. The Grizzlies were the same with Ja. The Nets were middling when they went all out for KD and Kyrie. Clippers were middling when they got Kawhi and PG13. The Raptors were middling when they got Kawhi.

I think none of the big deals that have happened recently have been worth it. I'm happy they stayed firm and didn't trade away everything for Mitchell for example. He's great but does he bring us a ring? Doubt it. If we're going all out like that the only way it's worth it is if the player will be an MVP level guy for at least 3 years for us. That's also why I want to pass on KD, no longevity there. You think we can get a team together midseason and contend with one off-season for everyone to gel before KD starts aging more?

ehh...Memphis and NOP were still lottery teams that were 30 win teams that got lucky in the lottery to jump start themselves into contention. We are building a 40ish type win team that will never be in the lottery to get lucky.

We are still basically banking on trading for a superstar...because we have played ourselves out of drafting a difference maker.

Most likely the end result here is that Hart plays solidly for us...he opts out...we resign him to a 16ish MM deal for a 3-4 years moving forward.

Then our roster is capped out with Brunson/Randle/RJ/Hart/Mitch making a lot of money. Then we will probably extend IQ too. Our picks will continue to lose value since they will be outside of the lottery so I am still very concerned this regime has a clear direction.

Like getting hart in isolation isn't a bad move. But still there is a roster glut of good but not great players on this team. I really need to see a follow up deal of some sorts because trading for a decent rotational player without a rotational player going out doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Obi value will continue to depreciate where we probably end up trading him for a couple 2nds in the offseason or something like that.

Just like they did with Cam...this regime sure knows how to tank players values.

[Knicks Byke]

Does he start?

[Deeeez Knicks]

People are saying Knicks overpaid

thoughts?

They did pay a heavy price since Hart will be a free agent. Blazers made out really well for someone they weren't keeping.

For it to work out Thibs has to figure out how to use him right and Knicks need to be able to resign him to a reasonable deal

Knicks control his Bird rights.

That gives the Knicks the upper hand to resign him, but another team could still screw us by offering him a decent sized deal and force the Knicks to match. Still some risk there

[mpharris36]

I like Hart as a player and I think i would be more excited about the move if I expected Thibs to get creative with lineups. Hart is like the best rebounding guard 6'5 and under in the NBA. You can play smaller lineups and not take too much of a hit rebounding. The Knicks can plays some Randle at the 5 lineups and just switch everything which will add a new wrinkle.

But I don't think Thibs is creative like that.

Hart is a good fit for those small ball, wing heavy lineups that can play fast. Almost every team in the league plays that way for a stretch of minutes and Thibs has always refused small ball...he would rather play Sims/Hartenstein together then play small ball. We will see if he ever changes.

I doubt it.

Knicks could get really cretive with

Randle/RJ/Hart/IQ or Grimes/Brunson type linepus. Completely spaced floor...completely switchable lineups.

Obviously you can't do that vs Embiid or someone like that. But most teams in the league don't have Embiid....you can do that against the celtics you can do that against the hawks...even the Heat.

You have enough rebounding with Hart/IQ...and you would be very difficult to guard on the other end with Randle at the 5.

[DOT]

I like Hart as a player and I think i would be more excited about the move if I expected Thibs to get creative with lineups. Hart is like the best rebounding guard 6'5 and under in the NBA. You can play smaller lineups and not take too much of a hit rebounding. The Knicks can plays some Randle at the 5 lineups and just switch everything which will add a new wrinkle.

But I don't think Thibs is creative like that.

Hart is a good fit for those small ball, wing heavy lineups that can play fast. Almost every team in the league plays that way for a stretch of minutes and Thibs has always refused small ball...he would rather play Sims/Hartenstein together then play small ball. We will see if he ever changes.

Honestly, Brunson/Grimes/OG with Quick and Hart off the bench would be a really easy to root for group. Cause Brunson's the only bad defender of the bunch, meaning it's much easier to plan around him and you have a ton of versatility with guys who can play multiple positions

The problem would be I don't think Randle fits into that group of guys, but I also don't see us trading him and I don't think anyone who wants to trade for him has a guy that'd fit there.

[HopelessKnick]

Knicks aren’t a team drafting more than 1 rookie. Just not that type of team.

You are right unfortunately....the Knicks are the type of team that pays a mid first round pick for a 8points/6rebounds backup, undersized guard....you know the type of team that has had no success for over 2 decades and is the worst or second worst team since Ewing.

In a vacuum I agree with you that a guy like Hart is not worth a first, even protected, but there is a lot of recent precedent as far as that being the going rate for a 3and D wing man like him. There's the Melton to Philly deal where he got traded for the 23rd pick last year. There's also Royce O'Neale who was traded last offseason for a first. I'm sure there are others. Also, though he's just 6'5", Hart is really just an undersized SF.

I disagree. Hart is not a 3 and D guy. He does not have a 3. Portland fans say he was recently even passing up wide open threes to the point teammates were giving him looks. He is a poor shooter. If you look at his shooting motion he shoots the same type of unbalanced type shots like Randle. He is no better than Barrett, maybe even worse and more reluctant to shoot the three. O'Neal is a 39% career three point shooter and a 6'6/230lbs SF that can guard the 2, 3 and 4. Melton plays the PG/SG spots but has been shooting close to 39% on average over the last 3 seasons. Neither of them are world beaters and if other teams overpaid for mediocre role players, does it mean we should do the same?

[Deeeez Knicks]

I like Hart as a player and I think i would be more excited about the move if I expected Thibs to get creative with lineups. Hart is like the best rebounding guard 6'5 and under in the NBA. You can play smaller lineups and not take too much of a hit rebounding. The Knicks can plays some Randle at the 5 lineups and just switch everything which will add a new wrinkle.

But I don't think Thibs is creative like that.

Hart is a good fit for those small ball, wing heavy lineups that can play fast. Almost every team in the league plays that way for a stretch of minutes and Thibs has always refused small ball...he would rather play Sims/Hartenstein together then play small ball. We will see if he ever changes.

I doubt it.

Knicks could get really cretive with

Randle/RJ/Hart/IQ or Grimes/Brunson type linepus. Completely spaced floor...completely switchable lineups.

Obviously you can't do that vs Embiid or someone like that. But most teams in the league don't have Embiid....you can do that against the celtics you can do that against the hawks...even the Heat.

You have enough rebounding with Hart/IQ...and you would be very difficult to guard on the other end with Randle at the 5.

Hoping to see some of those lineups, but knowing Thibs Hart may just take Deuce's min at the backup 2

[Ewings2ndcousin]

Love getting another Nova player in NY! Thibs loves him so he will get playing time unlike Cam whose ass probably had more splinters in it than my deck.

[RHODEY]

Maybe the Wizards one will too....

naah longshot

2.5 games back but, 7 teams in that space. TOR/OKC/CHI/UTA/POR/ATL/GSW

and kp is playing well

[cgmw]

Quintessential Knicks — Trade out of the first round during Wemborama. Trade for a veteran on a 1 year contract to play ahead of your last first round pick.

Same playbook as it ever was.

Bonus Knicks points: while not a PF, Leon’s latest veteran can’t shoot.

[TrueWarrior]

Burks > Hart.

I’m sure we’ll all like Hart but come on this cant be the only thing we’re doin. Not a star trade but not a youth move either. Hes going to cut into Grimes, IQ, and RJs minutes a bit.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Quintessential Knicks — Trade out of the first round during Wemborama. Trade for a veteran on a 1 year contract to play ahead of your last first round pick.

Same playbook as it ever was.

You realize the Knicks ALMOST never win the lottery, 37 years and counting....

[robillionaire]

Team tank down bad today

[Iron Mantis]

Burks > Hart.

I’m sure we’ll all like Hart but come on this cant be the only thing we’re doin. Not a star trade but not a youth move either. Hes going to cut into Grimes, IQ, and RJs minutes a bit.

Yea man. Burks didn't die for this.

This front office is just chasing its tail. Development and "winning" are not mutually exclusive.

They only value 1st round picks in the context of making trades.

They could have easily rolled with what they have into the playoffs and used that pick to draft a "Josh Hart", with more potential, for dirt cheap.

[nedleeds]

Charlotte 1st and our 1st for Josh Hart.

Do you clown sheep lords know Josh Hart is a CAA client

EXTEND AND PAY LEONS SON HIS MONEY!

[NYKinMIA]

first 10 pages, yee hoo!

last 10 pages, boo hoo!

[HopelessKnick]

My concern is what happens with IQ. He's been one of our best players.

He will still get 20-22 minutes

Brunson 35 min/ IQ 13 min
Grimes 25 min/ IQ 8 min/ Hart 15 min
Barrett 35 min/Hart 13 min

Brunson 35 min
Barrett 35 min
Hart 28 min
Grimes 25 min
IQ 21 min
McBride out of rotation

[Reign23]

Quintessential Knicks — Trade out of the first round during Wemborama. Trade for a veteran on a 1 year contract to play ahead of your last first round pick.

Same playbook as it ever was.

Bonus Knicks points: while not a PF, Leon’s latest veteran can’t shoot.

Huh? if its in the lottery we are keeping the pick fyi

[ScienceOfLosing]

Burks > Hart.

I’m sure we’ll all like Hart but come on this cant be the only thing we’re doin. Not a star trade but not a youth move either. Hes going to cut into Grimes, IQ, and RJs minutes a bit.

Funny, we had to pay to get rid of Burks and even more to get our short NO 3 & great D wing Hart.