Woj/Shams/Jon: The Russell deal is done

[shrink]

How about the fact that we just helped a team behind get stronger?

For half of one season? Maybe? It certainly helped US get a win last night - before the trade, the Jazz were favored.

Winning this year would be great, no doubt. But MIN’s goal, to me, should be to do all we can to see Ant maximize his potential, and get the most wins we can between now and a five year window. This trade obviously is aimed at that, gaining value in future picks, adding on future salary for next year, and adding Conley to help the offense run more efficiently and whisper in Ant’s ear.

Many people have the wrong idea about trading. The media doesn’t help, because they always want to frame it as “who won, and who lost?” A good trade is one where all the teams improve on their goals. In other words, in a two team trade, Team A Wins, Team B wins, and they both get better relative to the other 28 teams.

I think MIN is in a better place today than they were yesterday. That’s our goal. If the Jazz and Lakers also get better, that’s ok - the trade didn’t improve the other 27 teams, so we made progress. Maybe the Lakers catch us and maybe they don’t, but regardless, our future looks a little brighter to me today.

[Ethomasp31]

Imagine you’re Tim Connelly. You’ve had talks with DLo about an extension and a new contract next summer, and he wants so much more than you’ll offer, that you know he’s gone. Despite losing your best player for most of the season, the team has stayed well within the playoff hunt, but the national media and a segment of your local fanbase claim the season is a failure, seen through a microcosm of adding Gobert. You don’t have pick equity, and the trade deadline is almost here. What do you do?

Under these constraints, I think Connelly pulled a big save here. DLo is playing well, but everyone knows he isn’t a $31 mil player. Connelly found a really good team to trade him to. This summer, if DLo walks that’s a big loss, since the Wolves don’t get cap space to replace him. If he’s a Laker, he helps LeBron now, and if he walks this summer, they can wiggle to make that all cap space, for the team that is historically the #1 free agent destination. LAL is a great destination, but the team doesn’t have the pieces MIN wants. Westbrook is too much salary for the Wolves to match, and DLo is not worth a lightly protected 2027 1st either. The Jazz work as the perfect intermediary.

A $31 mil DLo was never going to bring back a lot, but this package ticks so many boxes for the Wolves:

1. It maintains MIN’s salary slot for 2023-24
2. It gets Conley, the one PG who best knows how to maximize Gobert for the next two years
3. Conley is a pro’s pro. I want him whispering in Ant’s ear, to help his development.
4. It is win-now, fitting a big immediate need, with a player that has little learning curve.
5. It adds a prospect in NAW. He can also be added to Naz right now for matching salary in a trade, if done soon.
6. It brings three 2nds, and Connelly has a history of finding talent in the second round (Monte Morris, Jokic)
7. It creates a new TPE, and gives MIN more flexibility under the lux.

I think it’s a pretty good deal for MIN - hard to expect more. Maybe this summer we add a point-of-attack guard, and …?

How about the fact that we just helped a team behind get stronger?

And one who was almost tied with us worse. If we go 12-12 the Lakers need to go 17-10 to tie us. If the Jazz would have beaten us last night they would have been tied with us. The point is if we play well we don't really need to worry about the Lakers. Now they do have a lot of home games and we have a lot of road games, so you never know. If we go 14-10 they would need to finish the year 19-8 to catch us.

[Isegrim]

How about the fact that we just helped a team behind get stronger?

That's right and it hurts. Especially because it's the Lakers. But it's not like they are our only rivals for the PO. It would be absurd not to make a trade that you like for your team, only because it benefits one of your rivals.

[KGdaBom]

Because we have an idiot for a GM

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

He then traded him and 4 picks for a declining center who's baseline Kessler will probably reach in 2 years.

Yeah he's an idiot through and through.

If he's an idiot through and through he doesn't pick the best player in the draft at pick 21. He just didn't realize how good his own pick was.

[shrink]

And one who was almost tied with us worse. If we go 12-12 the Lakers need to go 17-10 to tie us. If the Jazz would have beaten us last night they would have been tied with us. The point is if we play well we don't really need to worry about the Lakers. Now they do have a lot of home games and we have a lot of road games, so you never know. If we go 14-10 they would need to finish the year 19-8 to catch us.

These are great points, even for those that are solely concerned with this season’s playoff race.

If we can’t stay in front of the Lakers in the regular season, we are going to get crushed in the playoffs anyway.

Also, in a tightly packed race this year, this trade basically eliminates one of the contenders (Jazz).

[shrink]

Because we have an idiot for a GM

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

And he’s also the idiot that signed Kyle Anderson, for under the MLE, so he could lock up Minott on a Gupta Special. And we all hate that he identified Luka Garza from the G-League and traded for him. What an idiot, huh?

Let’s put Folklore in charge.

[KGdaBom]

Because we have an idiot for a GM

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

And he’s also the idiot that signed Kyle Anderson,for under the MLE, so he could put Minott on a Gupta Special. And we all hate that he identified Luka Garza from the G-League and traded for him. What an idiot, huh?

He's clearly an idiot through and through.

[Krapinsky]

I'm just happy I don't have to watch D'angelo play basketball anymore. I do feel this could be an addition by subtraction move.

Say what you want about trade value, but Conley a better fit in the short term. D'angelo was never going to be a fit. Conley has several years of experience playing with Rudy. This is going to expedite the twin-towers experiment. Conley will also minimize turnovers, help defense, and help in end of game situations so we don't have to ride or die by Russel's hot hand.

[Folklore]

If he improved his value why did we get nothing for him in trade?

Because we have an idiot for a GM

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

Things like this make my head hurt. You said that to say what? Were you trying to support my comment?

[SO_MONEY]

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

And he’s also the idiot that signed Kyle Anderson,for under the MLE, so he could put Minott on a Gupta Special. And we all hate that he identified Luka Garza from the G-League and traded for him. What an idiot, huh?

He's clearly an idiot through and through.

The Gobert trade definitely damaged his reputation, he did well in FA, like every GM I don't think he is a clairvoyant as it comes to drafting, he drafted Moore with a 1st and I am pretty skeptical he had upside. I hope the ideocracy is a result of ownership not TC himself, but who wants to go out on a limb and state that as fact...I don't. He has done nothing to defend himself from criticism regardless of if ownership were involved.

[Folklore]

From reddit:

https://theathletic.com/4169502/2023/02/09/dangelo-russell-trade-mike-conley-timberwolves/?source=user-shared-article

- Dlo previously clashed with Ryan Saunders

- Dlo and Connelly were nowhere close on contract negotiations

- The belief is that Conley will get the offense rolling with Gobert in it. Something that Russell hadnt managed

- The Wolves are banking on their depth to keep Conley's minutes manageable to reduce the risk of him getting hurt

- Russell did not have patience with Gobert this season in adjusting his game to fit Gobert. Russell did not hide his lack of displeasure in Gobert's offensive fluidity, lamenting it publically to teammates during games

- Denver was pretty much the last straw for TC in trying to acclimate the team he had. Instead Conley is here to try and salvage the Gobert move. Gobert isnt going anywhere.

- The Wolves will need Conley to come in and sort the team immediately given they strengthened LA and both Dallas and Phoenix have traded for All stars

- Trading Dlo has given the Wolves flexibility for future signings and trades to happen

- Ultimately Russell leaves a complicated legacy, helping bring support and noise in Minnesota whilst underperforming the visions that Gersson Rosas had for him and the Wolves

Not a fan of Connelly building this entire team around Gobert, but I suppose that’s what happens when you go all on such a ridiculous trade.

I don’t get that conclusion at all from what was posted.

Thanks for posting The Athletic highlights from Reddit.

Thats sad. The guy is clearly trying to cover his tracks. Was the 46-year-old pg who also played with his guy Rudy the only option out there? Danny knew he'd be coming back haha

[Ethomasp31]

And one who was almost tied with us worse. If we go 12-12 the Lakers need to go 17-10 to tie us. If the Jazz would have beaten us last night they would have been tied with us. The point is if we play well we don't really need to worry about the Lakers. Now they do have a lot of home games and we have a lot of road games, so you never know. If we go 14-10 they would need to finish the year 19-8 to catch us.

These are great points, even for those that are solely concerned with this season’s playoff race.

If we can’t stay in front of the Lakers in the regular season, we are going to get crushed in the playoffs anyway.

Also, in a tightly packed race this year, this trade basically eliminates one of the contenders (Jazz).

The Lakers may catch us, but they made this trade for this summer, not for this season. If Beasley and DLo are on their team next year, the trade was a failure for them. They did this so James can bring in Irving next season and to create cap room for him. Now being the Lakers, the draft pick is probably not as important to them as they are a FA destination. But their team is not a NBA Title Contender with DLo. Personally I think the window for James, Irving and Durant is pretty small right now while the window for Ant is pretty big.

[jpatrick]

I think Connelly is a scout. A very very good scout and talent evaluator. I really question his negotiation skills though. His biggest red flags before coming here were that he would give his players giant contracts too soon with no negotiation. Sometimes that was fine (Jokic). Sometimes maybe not a good idea (MPJ and maybe Murray).

[KGdaBom]

Because we have an idiot for a GM

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

Things like this make my head hurt. You said that to say what? Were you trying to support my comment?

I posted that in regard to your comment he was an idiot. Maybe he is, but maybe he isn't based on how well he tends to draft. Maybe drafting is his strength, but trading is his weakness.

[Zonarosa]

i don’t understand the negativity around this deal.

[thinktank]

i don’t understand the negativity around this deal.

Most people aren’t too bright, most Wolves fans included.

[MN7725]

i don’t understand the negativity around this deal.

maybe i missed some posts, but all the posts i saw that were negative in nature were rehashes of the Gobert trade, not of this particular trade

[Folklore]

Because we have an idiot for a GM

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

And he’s also the idiot that signed Kyle Anderson, for under the MLE, so he could lock up Minott on a Gupta Special. And we all hate that he identified Luka Garza from the G-League and traded for him. What an idiot, huh?

Let’s put Folklore in charge.

Are you serious? I might not have gone after Kyle because I didn't like what I saw about him but here you go.
start of season would have been the same and I would have made it a mission to trade away Dlo and get a PF who could score and out Reb Van who's the best offensive rebounder in the league and has a very cheap contract. I would have also listened to my scouts who would have told me more about Kyle and this Kessler guy who sounds like he'd be great for the games when we need an actual center for rim protection and reb.
Because hey, I'm the GM, not a scout, I have more important things to do. I would have never called Danny. I would have called Pat Riley to talk about Bam. But as for the draft I would have been happy with it, but I would have grabbed a PG just to take some leverage away from Dlo in extension talks.I also would have tried to go in on Lori Mark once NY got Mitchell. maybe Lori and Sexton for Dlo and two 1st.

start of season (no forbes)
Sexton, Pat, Mclaughin
Ant, Beas, Pat, Nowell
Jaden, Prince,
Markk, Van, Nas, Kyle
Towns, Nas, Kessler, Knight

G League Garza, PG, Minot, C, Maro, Knight



Sexton, Pat, PG
Ant, Beas, Nowell (now I'm going to see if i want to trade Beas or keep Nowell)
Jaden, Kyle
Van, Nas, Kyle
Mark, Kess, Nas (I really like this Kessler guy, if we ever trade Towns we'd be set at C)

The Wizards want Rui gone? I'd give them a couple seconds for him along with prince.

Sexton, Pat, Mclaughin PG
Ant, Beas, Nowell
Jaden,Kyle,Van
Markk,Van, Rui, Kyle
Towns, Kess, Nas

After Kyrie asks for a trade its whatever. exchange Mark for Colins..Dlo for Kyrie...Picks, Dlo, Beas and Van for KD.The point is there are many moves better than what Kahnelly did by painting himself in a corner and getting praise for making moves because of a bad situation he put himself in.

[Note30]

I'm not sure of that, but it could be the case. He drafted well this year taking Kessler who might be the best player of this years class.

He then traded him and 4 picks for a declining center who's baseline Kessler will probably reach in 2 years.

Yeah he's an idiot through and through.

If he's an idiot through and through he doesn't pick the best player in the draft at pick 21. He just didn't realize how good his own pick was.

Fine. Idiot at trades, great at drafting.

[Note30]

Glad DLO is gone, the ones crying are gonna choke on crow to finish up the season.

You don't understand. I'm not upset about trading DLo. I'm upset that financially and from a pride standpoint the Lakers showed everyone how badly we got fleeced during the summer and our idiot GM just went along with it.

Cut DLo out. This trade was essentially:

Conley, NAW, Vanderbilt, Beasley for Westbrook and a super coveted 1st

Meaning we just helped the Jazz get that super coveted 1st from the Lakers.

Conley for the Jazz was an expiring, same with NAW. So basically this was Vanderbilt and Beasley for a extremely valuable 1st.

Danny Ainge just **** us even harder.

That trade just became 7 picks (1 that's likely to be super high from the Lakers) and Pat Bev for Rudy Gobert.

Why don't any of you care that we just got **** in front of the whole NBA?

All that and add to it that we just helped the Lakers who are behind us get way better.

My problem with your take is that you despise Rudy and consider him 100% garbage despite the advanced stats having him a top 10 player in the NBA for years. I understand that the majority of analysts agree with you it was a bad trade, but you give no credit to the people who saw the good side. If I could go back and undo the trade I would, but the only reason I would is because of how good Walker Kessler has turned out to be. You call Connelly an idiot yet he's the idiot who picked possibly the best player from this years class at 21. He just didn't realize how good his own pick was.

I don't despise Rudy. I don't consider him garbage. He's a good player and I've said as much before. I think he is HIGHLY overrated and people prop him up a lot. He seems like a vocal leader when on the Jazz. I don't see his value as you do. You seem him as a top 10 player. I see him as a relic of a past time, where players of different abilities didn't have to all have similar abilities to a guard.


Kahnelley is good at drafting. I'll give him that.