Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG

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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#41 » by Cavsfansince84 » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:58 pm

SHAQ32 wrote:Relative to the names he normally gets compared to, Duncan is overrated defensively on this board IMO. I watched his entire career, and it seemed like all the decent or better post guys used to put numbers up on him.


Though team defense rating also helps him in as may the slow pace the Spurs played at and having some good defensive pieces around him. In terms of man defense Duncan isn't on the level of a Wilt or Nate and I think the injuries had to take a toll on his ability to play help defense as well. At his peak though Duncan was blocking 4-5 shots per game in the playoffs and very mobile.
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#42 » by kendogg » Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:28 am

Wilt > Duncan > Thurmond > KG (most overrated player in history alongside Draymond. 2 peas in a loser pod)
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#43 » by homecourtloss » Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:46 am

kendogg wrote:Wilt > Duncan > Thurmond > KG (most overrated player in history alongside Draymond. 2 peas in a loser pod)


SMH
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#44 » by Jaivl » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:36 am

kendogg wrote:Wilt > Duncan > Thurmond > KG (most overrated player in history alongside Draymond. 2 peas in a loser pod)

I mean

KG 1
Thurmond 0
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#45 » by Dutchball97 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:59 am

Jaivl wrote:
kendogg wrote:Wilt > Duncan > Thurmond > KG (most overrated player in history alongside Draymond. 2 peas in a loser pod)

I mean

KG 1
Thurmond 0


Tbf while KG and Dray are proven winners, I do think their on-court behavior is scummy as hell. We might excuse it because they're star NBA players but if a random guy at pick-up was fake tough guy trash talking and throwing cheap shots like them we'd all be thinking "what a loser" too.
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#46 » by 70sFan » Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:07 am

Djoker wrote:You'd probably have to track plays in Excel and watch hundreds of games which is just too much time...

I literally do that, although not with hundreds of games because I am focusing on peaks.

And then there could be sampling bias

My minimum for one player is 30 games and although such sample could be unrepresentative, I think in most cases it works reasonably well for 1-2 seasons. With this many games, I think you can get a decent idea of player's tendencies and limitations.

but even with a perfectly representative samples it's one man's opinion. Someone else might watch it and form a different conclusion. Heck I've seen two analyst see the same play very differently.

Sure thing, that's why analyzing basketball is very hard. I don't think it's any different than offense in this case though - just because we have boxscore stats doesn't mean we can capture offensive impact very well.

I'm happy saying all four of these guys are top tier defensive bigs and leave it at that. They obviously have different strengths and weaknesses that can be discussed but to definitively assess their defense is an impossible task IMO.

I think we need to do that. Otherwise, people stop caring about defense at all, which is literally half of the game.
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#47 » by 70sFan » Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:08 am

SHAQ32 wrote:Relative to the names he normally gets compared to, Duncan is overrated defensively on this board IMO. I watched his entire career, and it seemed like all the decent or better post guys used to put numbers up on him.

1. Man defense isn't the most important thing in basketball.
2. The best post player of Duncan's era struggled against him a lot actually.
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#48 » by Jaivl » Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:35 am

Dutchball97 wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
kendogg wrote:Wilt > Duncan > Thurmond > KG (most overrated player in history alongside Draymond. 2 peas in a loser pod)

I mean

KG 1
Thurmond 0


Tbf while KG and Dray are proven winners, I do think their on-court behavior is scummy as hell. We might excuse it because they're star NBA players but if a random guy at pick-up was fake tough guy trash talking and throwing cheap shots like them we'd all be thinking "what a loser" too.

I wholeheartedly agree. May sound weird cause I'm usually a KG defender due to me being so high on him, but he was an slimy piece of **** and I hated him (he seems extremely cool off-court, though).
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#49 » by Tomtolbert » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:24 pm

Duncan
KG
Wilt
Thurmond
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#50 » by trelos6 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:46 pm

I go KG at 1. Versatility is his trademark. Can guard on the perimeter.

Duncan at 2. First 2 seasons he was very mobile and could guard 3’s. But his peak was just a brilliant defensive anchor.

Then at 3, Wilt, mostly for ‘67. Amazing when he focussed on D.

Obviously all 4 are GOAT level defensive pieces, so it might come down to what you value in a defensive big man.
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Re: Defense Only: Duncan vs Wilt vs Thurmond vs KG 

Post#51 » by Samurai » Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:37 am

70sFan wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
eminence wrote:In an era where individual defenders were clearly capable of having absolutely enormous individual impact on team defense (Russell year after year after year), Thurmond was thoroughly underwhelming, topping out with -3 defenses in an era where pretty much every other relevant defensive big man found their way onto -5/-6 defenses at some point.

In an era where Russell played with multiple All-D caliber players, Thurmond played with *checks notes* uh yeah. Jim Barnett maybe?

I think Clyde Lee and Al Attles would be the best defenders Nate played with in his prime.

Good call, both were excellent defenders. In addition to his defense, Lee was also an elite rebounder, often posting higher TRB% higher than Big Nate himself. Thurmond said in an interview that having Lee to handle the boards helped Nate's defense by being able to focus on shutting down his man and not worrying about having to cheat off of him to grab the rebound.

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