Mike Muscala Appreciation Thread! – (Retires, July 2024)

[zoyathedestroya]

All season, there’s been too much anxiety over having “better” bigs than Kornet/Vonleh/Griffin/Grant.

One, we just don’t know if the players being suggested here would FIT any better and would complement the rest of the roster. Individually, they may be superior in talent but for a low usage low minute rotation piece, chemistry and continuity should be the priority. In that regard, the existing guys we have already gain an advantage by virtue of spending the last five months (longer for some) with the team.

Two, would the players suggested by some be totally fine stacking DNPs like Griffin does when HorfLord are healthy?

Three, [I lost my train of thought haha.] But Muscala fits with what we need. Sort of like what we were hoping for from Gallo without the shot creation. Perfect backup for Horford esp on offense. Watch out for those Brogs-Moose PnR.

And four, we’ve been more than fine even in the instances where BOTH Timelord and Horford were off the floor on a large enough sample by now (2006 possessions or 37.9% of team’s possessions). Remember, the team went 22-7 with Rob sidelined.

No Horford, no Timelord:
ORTG: 118.0 (83rd percentile)
DRTG: 110.7 (84th percentile)
NRTG: +7.3 (91st percentile)

It may not look pretty at times, but the non-HorfLord bigs have been mostly effective in what they’ve been asked to do. The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there.

No Horford, no Timelord, w/ Tatum:
ORTG: 121.0 (94th percentile)
DRTG: 108.9 (93rd percentile)
NRTG: +12.0 (97th percentile)

No Horford, no Timelord, no Tatum:
ORTG: 110.8 (22nd percentile)
DRTG: 114.8 (46th percentile)
NRTG: -4.0 (26th percentile)

I recognize in the playoffs it would be different and these numbers may prove useless. But if Timelord and Horford both go down, we’ll be in trouble against the Bucks no matter if it’s Thomas Bryant or Mo Bamba we acquired (both btw are worse defenders than Muscala).

[zoyathedestroya]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

[darrendaye]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

This question takes nothing away from the main point, but, do you know how they qualify who is playing center?

[sam_I_am]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

This was happening as early as his rookie season. Team got off to ridiculous start - better than this season - after losing Hayward and then when Kyrie went down the team went to ECF. Scary Terry filled in admirably for Kyrie but the reason all that was even possible was that Tatum’s impact was historic for a rookie - just not fully recognized for what it was.

[zoyathedestroya]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

This question takes nothing away from the main point, but, do you know how they qualify who is playing center?

CleaningtheGlass, you mean? I have no idea. There are lineups where Horford is the C with Griffin at PF. But if Griffin is at C, there are no lineups with Horford at PF. When GWill is at C, none of the other bigs share the floor with him as far as I can tell. Rob doesn’t have possessions as PF.

[Fencer reregistered]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

In fairness, Tatum is one of the best PFs in the league.

[Hal14]

Good pickup imo.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[zoyathedestroya]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

In fairness, Tatum is one of the best PFs in the league.

10.8% of the time as SG (+17.7 net)
34.4% of the time as PF (+4.6 net)
54.5% of the time as SF (+11.4 net)

…if we go by CTG’s tracking.

Let’s just say one of the best players in the league regardless of position hehe.

There’s more evidence pointing to Cs being better with double big lineups pushing Tatum down to SF or SG even if the other big is Grant.

[Hal14]

Read on Twitter

[165bows]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

This question takes nothing away from the main point, but, do you know how they qualify who is playing center?

CleaningtheGlass, you mean? I have no idea. There are lineups where Horford is the C with Griffin at PF. But if Griffin is at C, there are no lineups with Horford at PF. When GWill is at C, none of the other bigs share the floor with him as far as I can tell. Rob doesn’t have possessions as PF.

I think these generally work on a sort of algorithm or formula. Ie, like above, if Rob is on the floor, he's pre-determined the C, next big guy up is a PF. So they are sort of pre-programmed and weighted in terms of who is what, when. So there is a bit of a hierarchy built into the system, rather than some guy watching all the minutes and saying 'oh, he's playing more PF' or something.

I tend to use bbref ('cause I'm old now or whatever) but if you think it through you can usually figure out the system they use for who gets defined as what spot compared to other guys. Some guys get locked into a spot where they get defined as that role only, so that's why eg Pritchard (on bbref) is listed as 100% PG, and Smart is 97% PG and 3% SG - PP somehow has a higher pre-set for PG than everyone, and Smart has the same but for everyone but PP. So Smart is always rated as PG compared to White/Brogs/whoever, but when he happens to play with PP (rarely), is the only time Smart gets labelled a SG.

[zoyathedestroya]

This question takes nothing away from the main point, but, do you know how they qualify who is playing center?

CleaningtheGlass, you mean? I have no idea. There are lineups where Horford is the C with Griffin at PF. But if Griffin is at C, there are no lineups with Horford at PF. When GWill is at C, none of the other bigs share the floor with him as far as I can tell. Rob doesn’t have possessions as PF.

I think these generally work on a sort of algorithm or formula. Ie, like above, if Rob is on the floor, he's pre-determined the C, next big guy up is a PF. So they are sort of pre-programmed and weighted in terms of who is what, when. So there is a bit of a hierarchy built into the system, rather than some guy watching all the minutes and saying 'oh, he's playing more PF' or something.

I tend to use bbref ('cause I'm old now or whatever) but if you think it through you can usually figure out the system they use for who gets defined as what spot compared to other guys. Some guys get locked into a spot where they get defined as that role only, so that's why eg Pritchard (on bbref) is listed as 100% PG, and Smart is 97% PG and 3% SG - PP somehow has a higher pre-set for PG than everyone, and Smart has the same but for everyone but PP. So Smart is always rated as PG compared to White/Brogs/whoever, but when he happens to play with PP (rarely), is the only time Smart gets labelled a SG.

Sounds about right. It’s difficult to actually track (via video) which guy is playing which position in a particular possession because of the positionless basketball thing. In the dinosaur age, “you are what you defend .” There’s so much switching now but we really can’t call Horford or Timelord PGs.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Embodiment of “doesn’t let the ball stick.” I’m smitten.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

[Fencer reregistered]

“The crucial piece to all of this is having Tatum healthy and humming. He’s made it work no matter which big we throw out there. “

Not even kidding. Here are the Celtics net ratings with Jayson Tatum on the floor…

Griffin at C: +11.1
Kornet at C: +17.1
GWill at C: -0.6 (we very rarely do this)
RWill at C: +18.6
Horford at C: +3.3

Milwaukee without their starting frontcourt: -10.2
Cleveland without their starting frontcourt: +2.9
Memphis without their starting frontcourt: -6.0
Warriors without their starting frontcourt: -8.8
Denver without their starting frontcourt: -15.7

Celtics without their starting frontcourt: +7.3

You get the idea. Our strength is in our wings specifically Tatum.

In fairness, Tatum is one of the best PFs in the league.

10.8% of the time as SG (+17.7 net)
34.4% of the time as PF (+4.6 net)
54.5% of the time as SF (+11.4 net)

…if we go by CTG’s tracking.

Let’s just say one of the best players in the league regardless of position hehe.

There’s more evidence pointing to Cs being better with double big lineups pushing Tatum down to SF or SG even if the other big is Grant.

Interesting. Still can't push Tatum very far down the list of PFs.

Giannis -- easy to put him ahead of Tatum at PF. A majority would say Giannis is still the better player than Tatum, while the rest would have him close. And PF is Giannis' main position.

Durant -- arguably a better PF, but I'd be inclined to disagree. Tatum's the more physical player of the two now, to an extent that overshadows Durant's length.

Zion -- arguably a better PF, but again I'd be inclined to disagree. An energy/dynamo guy who is injured so often doesn't impress me that much. And Tatum is not just the more prolific but actually better defensive rebounder.

Nobody else really seems to even be in the conversation.

[31to6]

Mike Muscled-Up-At-The-Deadline

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

[165bows]

Read on Twitter

Plus Gallo who has had three out of four seasons at 40% or better.

Sounds like they plan to keep Gallo next year, decent amount of overlap between him and Moose.

[themoneyteam2]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=eCSRCuVmeSpOE9vSwk7h7A

[themoneyteam2]

I read this move as saying Muscala + buyout wing > Bey + buyout big.

Seems they could’ve sent 5 2nds for Bey but ultimately decided a backup wing like Bey really won’t be useful in playoffs (if JT or JB gets hurt you aren’t winning anyways). Feels like Bey would’ve been like Otto Porter was for GS last year playing spot mins here and there. They can grab a wing in buyout market to eat some regular season mins.

Muscala is a great shooting and gives them another piece to use in frontcourt depending on matchups. Highly doubt he plays in postseason and will be a better version of Theis imo who only played vs the Nets last year.

Seems like Brad valued Horford and Timelord getting rest down the stretch to be fresh for playoffs and see Muscala as someone who can be a good role player for those games when we’re without one or both of them. And maybe Muscala can be used in certain matchups in postseason for 5-10 mins, such as vs Philly to drag Embiid on perimeter

Ultimately this move doesn’t change the playoff rotation at all as the top 8 is set but I think it’ll be helpful in regular season to rest Al and Timelord in spots and is an upgrade over Kornet getting those mins