Welcome back GP2!!

[Onus]

Actually I can still see the Warriors going ahead with the trade even if GP2 is out for the year. Reasons: 1) If this trade was largely about the Benjamins, how exactly does scrapping the trade resolve the team's luxury tax dilemma? 2) Even if GP2 were healthy, we most likely aren't winning a chip this year. In fact, our odds of winning is lower now than it was before the trade. Not because Wiseman is so much more impactful than GP2; it has to do with what other teams in our division did; adding KD is much more impactful than having a healthy GP2. 3) Barring injury, DDV will opt out after this year as he has proven to be more valuable than the $7M MLE max we can offer him. If our training staff believes GP2 will be healthy for the start of next season, he still gives us a backfill for the DDV role even if he doesn't play this season.

And the biggest reason by far: 4) Way beyond awkward to hang a bunch of 'Welcome back James' signs in the locker room with the name Gary crossed out and James scribbled in crayon next to it.

I thought the trade was billed as something to help for the now and the now can’t even suit up.

If you think this team should give up because of the additions then you should want to keep wiseman.

Again, how, exactly does keeping Wiseman address the first reason on the luxury tax? And if the goal is to win now, do we know for a fact that the team was already aware that the Suns had acquired KD and that the Lakers unloaded Westbrook before they had finalized the complexities of a 4-team trade? I remain unconvinced that the entire concept of two timelines was smashed by this trade. We are hearing that the OG trade idea was squashed because the Raptors insisted on including Kuminga plus picks, which the Dubs did not want to do. If you only wanted to win now, OG is as or more impactful right now than JK and who cares about future picks if your focus is to win now. I would venture that they view JK and the picks as key elements for a second timeline. So no I do not think you can just isolate one single aspect and make a conclusion on just that one aspect while ignoring context and the bigger picture.

That’s if this was an actual luxury tax move solely.

Yes the Kd move and the Westbrook moves happened before our trade discussions so they were fully aware of the landscape.

People’s guess is that masai’s ask was just too much to meet which is why they didn’t trade jk. But it was being discussed. Which means they were ready to throw away the 2nd timeline completely and really they should’ve done it.

[Old_Blue]

Applying some basic contract theory here, the contract to trade still exists and still occurred in a timely manner prior to the trade deadline. There was an offer, an acceptance and there was consideration - all the elements of a binding contract. Where there is a problem with the consideration, you have an issue of materiality - essentially the degree to which the contract defect does away with the validity of the contract itself, since there might no longer be deemed to have been a meeting of the minds between the parties involved. A materiality issue doesn't necessarily void a contract though - certainly not where damages can be mitigated to the satisfaction of affected parties. Applying that reasoning, I think this thing is fixable. The question is how long the League will give the teams to tweak the deal.

[Onus]

Applying some basic contract theory here, the contract to trade still exists and still occurred in a timely manner prior to the trade deadline. There was an offer, an acceptance and there was consideration - all the elements of a binding contract. Where there is a problem with the consideration, you have an issue of materiality - essentially the degree to which the contract defect does away with the validity of the contract itself, since there might no longer be deemed to have been a meeting of the minds between the parties involved. A materiality issue doesn't necessarily void a contract though - certainly not where damages can be mitigated to the satisfaction of affected parties. Applying that reasoning, I think this thing is fixable. The question is how long the League will give the teams to tweak the deal.

What’s really acceptable? We get the 5 2nds back?

[Old_Blue]

Applying some basic contract theory here, the contract to trade still exists and still occurred in a timely manner prior to the trade deadline. There was an offer, an acceptance and there was consideration - all the elements of a binding contract. Where there is a problem with the consideration, you have an issue of materiality - essentially the degree to which the contract defect does away with the validity of the contract itself, since there might no longer be deemed to have been a meeting of the minds between the parties involved. A materiality issue doesn't necessarily void a contract though - certainly not where damages can be mitigated to the satisfaction of affected parties. Applying that reasoning, I think this thing is fixable. The question is how long the League will give the teams to tweak the deal.

What’s really acceptable? We get the 5 2nds back?

I think it's more a question of what value the Warriors place on the loss of GP2 for the remainder of this season.

[azwfan]

I dont see how receiving GP2 is an acceptable outcome. If he cant play, theres no point in trading Wiseman. Id be okay with keeping Wiseman or getting Bey. Either way, we’re probably not improving much unless the core decides to defend.

[The-Power]

I think it's more a question of what value the Warriors place on the loss of GP2 for the remainder of this season.

Or the greater injury risk going forward.

[Old_Blue]

I really don't like the suggestions of fraud/misrepresentation on Portland's part. If this deal goes down in flames, it's really not enough to penalize Portland. The Dubs should get some form of compensation. That said, under no circumstances can I see the Dubs being rewarded anything more than a second round pick.

[michaelm]

I really don't like the suggestions of fraud/misrepresentation on Portland's part. If this deal goes down in flames, it's really not enough to penalize Portland. The Dubs should get some form of compensation. That said, under no circumstances can I see the Dubs being rewarded anything more than a second round pick.

Particularly given he arrived at the Blazers from GSW injured.

[Samurai]

I thought the trade was billed as something to help for the now and the now can’t even suit up.

If you think this team should give up because of the additions then you should want to keep wiseman.

Again, how, exactly does keeping Wiseman address the first reason on the luxury tax? And if the goal is to win now, do we know for a fact that the team was already aware that the Suns had acquired KD and that the Lakers unloaded Westbrook before they had finalized the complexities of a 4-team trade? I remain unconvinced that the entire concept of two timelines was smashed by this trade. We are hearing that the OG trade idea was squashed because the Raptors insisted on including Kuminga plus picks, which the Dubs did not want to do. If you only wanted to win now, OG is as or more impactful right now than JK and who cares about future picks if your focus is to win now. I would venture that they view JK and the picks as key elements for a second timeline. So no I do not think you can just isolate one single aspect and make a conclusion on just that one aspect while ignoring context and the bigger picture.

That’s if this was an actual luxury tax move solely.

Yes the Kd move and the Westbrook moves happened before our trade discussions so they were fully aware of the landscape.

People’s guess is that masai’s ask was just too much to meet which is why they didn’t trade jk. But it was being discussed. Which means they were ready to throw away the 2nd timeline completely and really they should’ve done it.

Odd, I keep saying that there are multiple factors involved and you keep hanging on just one or sole aspect. So no need to reply since you are only looking for single aspect possibilities and I am not. And I do believe that the FO expects DDV to opt out and I do believe that GP2 (if our staff believes he will be healthy next season) provides a better solution for that hole than keeping Wiseman does. And I don't at all believe that there is a clear consensus that they should have dealt JK plus picks for OG, nor is it clear to me what the full extent of those conversations were.

[Big J]

Cannot believe Portland would pull this bull isht. Eff those cheating mother ****.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I really don't like the suggestions of fraud/misrepresentation on Portland's part. If this deal goes down in flames, it's really not enough to penalize Portland. The Dubs should get some form of compensation. That said, under no circumstances can I see the Dubs being rewarded anything more than a second round pick.

Particularly given he arrived at the Blazers from GSW injured.

I'm not sure how that matters. We had nothing to do with the Blazers signing of GP2. If they chose to sign him knowing he was injured, or didn't bother to figure out if he was injured, that's their problem. Now when they're negotiating with us to trade him back, if it turns out they were not forthcoming with important disclosure, that's another matter.

If we decide to let the trade stand, then I think it is just that. We all keep our pieces. Maybe people decide Portland isn't trustworthy and they have to live with that. Maybe the league punishes them, but I doubt it benefits us any, because we would have demonstrated we weren't too bothered if we kept Payton anyway.

If we decide to rescind the whole trade, as much as it feels like we suffered the most, I don't see us getting compensated unless Detroit and Atlanta are also compensated. Because all teams could say, "Wait a minute... if they hadn't made this mess, we might have made different moves."

But all that is me guessing.

[parsnips33]

Damn, GSW got screwed then. Warriors probably had at least 1 or 2 more trade paths to get rid of Wiseman before going with GPII. Could have sent Wiseman somewhere else if there was transparency about this injury.

Putting a curse on the Blazers organization. Dame you don't owe these snakes anything get out of there

the whole org?

Shoot first ask questions later

[CDM_Stats]

Cannot be amended

*apparently can be amended between the 2 teams if no team found at fault by league; cannot involve any of the other teams in the trade nor can it involve any outside teams

[Sleepy51]

Applying some basic contract theory here, the contract to trade still exists and still occurred in a timely manner prior to the trade deadline. There was an offer, an acceptance and there was consideration - all the elements of a binding contract. Where there is a problem with the consideration, you have an issue of materiality - essentially the degree to which the contract defect does away with the validity of the contract itself, since there might no longer be deemed to have been a meeting of the minds between the parties involved. A materiality issue doesn't necessarily void a contract though - certainly not where damages can be mitigated to the satisfaction of affected parties. Applying that reasoning, I think this thing is fixable. The question is how long the League will give the teams to tweak the deal.

What’s really acceptable? We get the 5 2nds back?

I think it's more a question of what value the Warriors place on the loss of GP2 for the remainder of this season.

This isn't going to be adjudicated in court though, it's a matter for the league to take action on and they can act outside of contract law correct?

https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/blog/inside-front-officehtml

2. Exchange of Medical Information. Each team is required to disclose in writing all medical information held by the team that might in any way relate to the relevant players' abilities to play basketball. (Yes, HIPAA lawyers, the players have validly consented to this.) Each team then scrutinizes this information, usually before agreeing to the deal. In addition to reading written descriptions of players' conditions, team doctors often examine MRIs, X-rays, EKGs, or other test results as part of this step.

If disclosure of all medical information in possession of the team is apparently a requirement for trade approval, then the Blazers may have violated a league rule before allowing the trade to go to the league office for approval. The league would probably welcome the Warriors cooperation in coming to an agreement to resolve this, but ultimately the Warriors have a really serious gripe here if Payton's injury physical is showing he may not be ready to play until the end of the regular season.

[Old_Blue]

The Warriors are actually in the cat bird seat here. They are the party that will decide what happens to this deal - since they are the party most materially affected by Portland's misrepresentation. What I wonder is what value the Dubs place on Bey. Would the Dubs be satisfied with retaining Bey or was he only valued as a trade piece all along?

[Dom801e]

I would also think PA would get involved regarding pressuring him to play.

[marthafokker]

Just recind the trade and send Wiseman to the minor league.

GP2 might have a buy out and we can get him back for the cheap next season.

[Old_Blue]

This isn't going to be adjudicated in court though, it's a matter for the league to take action on and they can act outside of contract law correct?

The League office is full of lawyers who, predictably, think like lawyers. That said, this matter will not be resolved in a court of law. It's a matter of whether or not the Warriors, applying legal principles, want to resolve the matter or void the deal altogether. I think they will be inclined to amend the deal - since I think they really don't want Wiseman back.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

Cannot be amended

*apparently can be amended between the 2 teams if no team found at fault by league; cannot involve any of the other teams in the trade nor can it involve any outside teams

That's still better than initially thought. Sounds like we could potentially talk down the number of picks if we still wanted to do it, and if Portland doesn't like that, it is up to us whether to kill the whole thing.

For that matter, it sounds like the 2 teams in question could just decide not to do "their part", in which case we'd keep Knox and all 5 picks. Yeah? I wasn't very happy before we heard of the Payton angle and we thought we were getting 5 picks, but perhaps it is at least an option in a mess that has no good options.

And that also sounds like if Portland is found at fault by the league, then none of this is on the table? That seems odd if we decided we wanted to renegotiate with Portland and move forward?

EDIT: Actually, that doesn't sound quite right. None of the 5 second round picks were ours to begin with, and were never "ours" to give, right? I don't know if I ever knew who was actually giving the 5 second round picks, but strictly speaking I'd guess in the four way trade, Detroit or Atlanta agreed to give picks to Portland in the 4 way trade. So if we and Portland wanted to renegotiate "our part" of the deal, isn't "our part" just sending Payton to the Warriors? And it would seem funny if we could decide to do something different with Atlanta's or Detroit's picks? But I suppose Portland could decide to give us *different* picks back maybe?

[whatisacenter]

If it can be amended maybe they swap GP2 for Cam Reddish? He is an expiring and would save the FO more $. I don't know, just throwing it out there.