How many contending seasons did Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki each have?

[f4p]

How many contending seasons did Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki each have?

I would like to have threads for most of the Top 30-ish guys like a mini-project or something, so hopefully there is some response to this. First one didn't get off to a rip-roaring start, but let's get more answers on this one. What else do you have to do? The trade deadline has passed and Lebron's GOAT status has been debated 3 or 4 more times.

This is relative: If a team wins 57 games and no one else wins more than 52, they're probably a contender. If a team wins 57 games and 3 teams win 65+ and they have to beat all of them on the road, they're probably not a contender.

This is not a supporting cast question: If Bill Russell plus 4 guys from the Y win the title, that's a contender. If Charles Barkley and 4 guys from the Y win 30 games, that's not a contender. Of course, if it's Barkley and 4 all-stars and they only win 30 games, you could still say they were a contender and just underperformed.

This is dynamic: It's really a "Did a team have a chance to win it all?" question. If things outside of a team's control help/hurt, take that into account. This includes injuries. The 2000 Spurs might have been contenders, but not once Tim Duncan missed the playoffs. However, if it's new information in a team's control, like if they're the 8th seed and upset the 1st seed, that's just a great series by a non-contender, not the birth of a new contender. The 2007 Cavs aren't necessarily contenders even while making the Finals, the 2007 Mavs are even though they lost in the 1st round.

Optional (but not optional): Apply weights to contending seasons. This isn't championship odds so the numbers aren't supposed to add up to 1.0 for each season. I would say something like below, but choose whatever you want:

1.0 - Favorite / Co-Favorite ('85 Lakers and Celtics?)
0.75 - 2nd best team but there is a strong favorite ('97 Jazz?) / Top 3-4 team in wide open field
0.5 - 2nd best team but there is a dominant favorite ('96 Sonics / '17 Cavs?) / 3rd best team behind co-favorites / Top 4-6 team in wide open field
0.25 - Fringe contender, lots of things need to go right, but not like "once in NBA history" right (if you're the 5th or maybe even 4th seed, you probably don't qualify most years)

So maybe for Garnett:

2004 - 0.25 after the Cassell injury
2008 - 1.0
2010 - etc, etc


1. Barkley and Karl Malone Thread

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[AEnigma]

This is a fun idea. Even if few others participate, I probably will continue to.

Garnett: 0s until 2004, although 2003 might have a 0.25 argument to it (not beating the Spurs, Lakers, or healthy Mavericks, but otherwise could take them over anyone). Giving 0.25 to 2004 because of Cassell is fair I suppose, but then we will need to be consistent with that standard. Before the injury, I would have then as a top five team alongside the Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, and Pacers.

1 in 2008. 0 in 2009 because of his own injury. 0.75 in 2010. 0.25 in 2011. 0.5 in 2012. 0s after.

Dirk has more to discuss. I would say 0 or 0.25 in 2001/02 — worse than Spurs, Lakers, and Kings, and possibly the Blazers too. They were 0.5 in 2003 until Dirk’s own injury, but then that plummets them to 0 or maybe 0.25 because he did manage to get three games into the conference finals. 0 for 2004. 0.25 for 2005. 0.75 for 2006. 0.75 for 2007 (top three team but ran into worst matchup). 0 for 2008-10 (never even faced the Lakers and would not have been favoured over multiple Eastern teams). 1 for 2011, or maybe 0.75 if you want to filter out postseason hindsight (they were still a top team when healthy). Probably 0 after.

Curious what someone like

has to say.

[MiamiBulls]

Garnett
1999:0
2000:0
2001:0
2002:0
2003:0.25
2004:0.25(struggled to barely beat the Kings in West Semis)
2005:0
2006:0
2007:0
2008:1.0
2009:0
2010:0.75
2011:0.25
2012:0.25

Dirk
2001:0
2002:0
2003:0.25(Mavs Defense in '03 Playoffs was putrid; favorite was coming out of the Spurs v Lakers West Semis)
2004:0.25
2005:0(Should've lost in the 1st Rd)
2006:1.0
2007:1.0
2008:0
2009:0
2010:0(From 08-10 Mavs Defense wasn’t good enough)
2011:0.5
2012:0.25
2013:0
2014:0

[Texas Chuck]

KG Wolves era is pretty easy. You have one year to look at: 2004. I would give them .5 here, but would be willing to consider .75. The injury occurs deep into the playoffs so wouldn't feel comfortable penalizing the team down to a .25 even though they had very little real shot at a title without Sam.

Then I'd give 08 Celtics a 1.
09 Celtics a .25
10 Celtics a .75
11 and 12 both a .25. I know they went to the WCF in 12 but they still feel a bit fringey to me. But I wouldn't argue with a higher mark there either.

Mavs I've always thought had 4 teams in the Dirk era that were some form of contender.

I'd give the 03 team a .5 Mainly because there wasn't a juggernaut team that year and even with the Dirk injury the Mavs were up 15 in the 4th of game 6 to force a game 7 with a returning Dirk and I think the Mavs had a real chance against the Nets. Could possibly bump this to a .75 even, but .5 feels rghy.

I'd give the 06 team a .75. Felt like the Mavs and Spurs were the class of the league and that 2nd round series should have decided the champion that year if not for Wade's incredible heroics in the Finals.

07 team probably should be a 1. I mean how is this team not the clear favorite? And many of you probably never realized this but they started 0-4 coming off the Finals loss. So played at well over a 70 win pace for 78 games. Just without question the dominant team in the league. But they played 84 games. Lost 19 of them. 11 to all other teams but the the Golden State Warriors. 67-11 against the field, 2-8 against We Believe.

11 is a .75. This team played well over a 60 win pace with Dirk, were beating the best teams all year, had been written off largely because their window was believed to be closed, but based on merits they were absolutely one of the best teams in the Association that year.

I don't have any other Dallas team as even really worthy of a .25.

[Dr Positivity]

KG

03 - 0.25: generous but competition a bit weak
04 - 0.75
08 - 1.0
10 - 0.25: a case where a fringe contender almost wins
11 - 0.25
12 - 0.25

Dirk

01 - 0.25
02 - 0.5
03 - 0.75
04 - 0.25
05 - 0.5
06 - 0.75
07 - 0.75
10 - 0.25
11 - 0.5: relative off the radar champion but still better going in than the previous seasons

[eminence]

Interesting question:
'00 and prior - no contenders either, any win would've been an absolute shock going into the playoffs
'01 - 0.25 Mavs
'02 - 0.25 for the Mavs, I'd have 3 teams (Lakers/Spurs/Kings) pretty clearly above them, and the Kings kind of went out and proved it
'03 - 0.75 for the Mavs (I think I'm going to ignore injuries and do this like the playoffs are just starting), on co-favorite level, but there are a lot of co-favorites, 0.25 for Wolves
'04 - 0.25 for Mavs, 0.75 for Wolves
'05 - 0.5 for Mavs
'06 - 0.75 for Mavs
'07 - 1.0 for Mavs (not way out ahead of the Spurs/Suns, but I'd have them #1 going into the playoffs, maybe Spurs also 1.0) though 67-11 is just barely above 70 win pace, silly Chuck
'08 - 1.0 for Celtics, I considered 0.25 for the Mavs despite being the 7 seed, but I think 0.0
'09 - I'll give the Celtics a 0.25 here, they were still the #3 overall seed, and there was some very limited hope KG could make a return deep in the playoffs
'10 - I'll go 0.5 for both, Celtics had that 'old core that can turn it on in the playoffs' vibe that earns them an extra 0.25
'11 - I'll go with 0.5 again for both, good on the Mavs for getting it done
'12 - 0.25 for the Celtics
'13 - none
'14 - oh man, the West was loaded, I'm tempted to give the Mavs a 0.25 again, but just resist, none from here on out.

Totals:
Dirk - 4.75
KG - 3.5