Who is the GOAT ringless player?

[edgymnerch]

Everyone's top 15 mostly contains of players with rings, although many people here say they don't factor in championships for their all time rankings, their top 15 usually contains players who have a championship. It's kind of an in-built thing in sports to have a player who has won the competitions they've played in at least once. So that makes me thing, who y'all would think is the best player to have never won an NBA championship.

[rk2023]

My selection is Chris Paul, though I see why people could say Malone. Regarding Paul’s career, unless he drinks a few gallons from the fountain of youth I don’t think anything he does could get him T-15 at this point. I’m just more confident in other players’ prime quality and ability to be a #1 on a championship team.

This gripe is something I see in common for other ringless GOAT (holy contradiction lol) candidates in Malone and Barkley - for their own respective reasons. I think Nash may provide the most lift in getting there if I could choose one player with a 3-5 year prime window, I just don’t have him as highly as Malone or Paul in a careers’ sense with longevity considered.

[dygaction]

Usually the first coming out is K Malone, but I am calling Jokic a better player than Malone now, at least peak wise. Jokic is too good to be ringless and he still has a long career to play

Jokic, Malone, Baylor, Nash, Barkley, Harden, Stockton, CP3, Westbrook, Ewing, Miller

[HeartBreakKid]

Everyone's top 15 mostly contains of players with rings, although many people here say they don't factor in championships for their all time rankings, their top 15 usually contains players who have a championship. It's kind of an in-built thing in sports to have a player who has won the competitions they've played in at least once. So that makes me thing, who y'all would think is the best player to have never won an NBA championship.

There are guys who I rank high who have rings but were not the "best player" on their teams so the ring argument is usually against them.

For actual ringless, I think it would be CP3. I have him at #20 last I checked, maybe a bit less or higher. Nash is right there with him. I'm not as high on Barkley or Karl Malone.


Jokic is already better than many players in the top 20. After this season is complete and if he's up to standard in the post season, I would pop him in my top 20. If he got a ring this year I suppose that would still disqualify him though.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Chris Paul

[Statlanta]

Karl Malone

[frica]

I personally don't count Lebron's rings with those stacked teams, but he wouldn't be in my top 3 either way.

Surely it's Karl Malone. (maybe Jokic going by peak. Or Doncic if you really rate his playoff ability.)
West and Paul are 2A and 2B for me.

(I had a brainfart with West, sorry)

[penbeast0]

I personally don't count Lebron's rings with those stacked teams, but he wouldn't be in my top 3 either way.

Surely it's Karl Malone. (maybe Jokic going by peak. Or Doncic if you really rate his playoff ability.)
West and Paul are 2A and 2B for me.

West has a ring.

[Owly]

Gut off top of head response: Stockton or Malone.

Only talking retired players here, everybody starts ringless. Granted Paul is closing in on the end of his career now and would I think take this if he doesn't win a title.

Edges can be fuzzy here. Not even talking counting ABA or "as the guy", which some people might mean, but Baylor has been listed here as ringless and that is the conventional view but is in a literal sense untrue, he got a championship ring from the '72 Lakers.

[algope]

Karl Malone

[ty 4191]

Jokic. Greatest three year peak ever, quite arguably.

[iggymcfrack]

It’s definitely Chris Paul. He ranks 4th in 25 year APM and would probably rank 3rd if Embiid didn’t benefit from not having a decline phase yet. He has better peak numbers than Magic with much better defense in a tougher era with greater longevity. I have him at #11 overall. I love Jokic more than anyone, but 2.5 years at a higher peak doesn’t pass someone who until last year was the greatest PG of all-time.

[No-more-rings]

It’s definitely Chris Paul. He has better peak numbers than Magic with much better defense in a tougher era with greater longevity.

I mean I'm sure you're aware or at least should be there's a lot of problems with this statement, but let me just say this much and it's something a lot of people aren't getting in regards to the last part.

Chris Paul has better longevity than Magic yes, but how much better, and how much of it is very meaningful towards championship aspirations?

Magic has shown he can be the best player on a championship team, even if he didn't win every year basically from at least 85-91 I'd say. Meaningful high level 2nd contributor from his rookie year from 80-84 with only 81 being a missed season.

Chris Paul has not shown he can be the best player on a championship team, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and just say theoretically he had that capability between 2008-2017, with 2010 being a missed season and also 2009, 2012, 2015 and 2016 all being limited if not significantly so due to injuries in the playoffs. We can put 2018 as a high level second option maybe even 1a on a pretty stacked team, but another year with injuries hampering their chances considerably.

Look, I think there's a reason why Paul would get injured so much in key series especially deep into the playoffs, and it's not just all bad luck some of that is part of it, I think there's legit concerns about how someone of that size and responsibility running the show holds up against grueling long playoff games and series.

I really don't think we should get away from a point of actually considering what was accomplished with the longevity a player had. Magic didn't play as long as Paul, although without the HIV diagnosis I think he may have, but he did give a solid 11 years where he was a high level contributor to 5 championships, 8 finals appearances, and flatout the top contributor and best player in the league level for 3 of those championships.

There's a reason why I don't rank Karl Malone or John Stockton higher than Larry Bird or Magic, aside from just being a worse player, but having a 15-18 year prime only matters to the extend to what you end up doing with it.

[Jaivl]

Karl Malone is my #15

[homecourtloss]

I personally don't count Lebron's rings with those stacked teams, but he wouldn't be in my top 3 either way.

Surely it's Karl Malone. (maybe Jokic going by peak. Or Doncic if you really rate his playoff ability.)
West and Paul are 2A and 2B for me.

[AEnigma]

The only post-merger players with valid non-stacked rings are Dirk (2011), Duncan (2003), Hakeem (1994), and Walton (1977). So among literally everyone else, easy answer is Lebron.

(More seriously: Karl Malone for career, Jokic or Nash for peak.)

[OhayoKD]

The only post-merger players with valid non-stacked rings are Dirk (2011), Duncan (2002), Hakeem (1994), and Walton (1977). So among literally everyone else, easy answer is Lebron.

(More seriously: Karl Malone for career, Jokic or Nash for peak.)

Giannis erasure

[Colbinii]

I personally don't count Lebron's rings with those stacked teams, but he wouldn't be in my top 3 either way.

Surely it's Karl Malone. (maybe Jokic going by peak. Or Doncic if you really rate his playoff ability.)
West and Paul are 2A and 2B for me.

West has a ring.

Yeah but West was on a stacked team so it doesn't count.

[frica]

I personally don't count Lebron's rings with those stacked teams, but he wouldn't be in my top 3 either way.

Surely it's Karl Malone. (maybe Jokic going by peak. Or Doncic if you really rate his playoff ability.)
West and Paul are 2A and 2B for me.

West has a ring.

On a more serious note, I confused his lack of an MVP with a lack of a title for a moment.

[frica]

It’s definitely Chris Paul. He has better peak numbers than Magic with much better defense in a tougher era with greater longevity.

I really don't think we should get away from a point of actually considering what was accomplished with the longevity a player had. Magic didn't play as long as Paul, although without the HIV diagnosis I think he may have, but he did give a solid 11 years where he was a high level contributor to 5 championships, 8 finals appearances, and flatout the top contributor and best player in the league level for 3 of those championships.

More seriously, Magic's comeback season was enough for me to be convinced that he had a lot of longevity in him.

Rusty, bloated from meds, out of shape and he still played like an All-Star.
With his vision, passing, and shooting touch Magic can only really get so bad, even with declined athleticism.

His WS/48 also ranked 17th if we exclude players who played less than 10 games.
Just a good season despite the odds being stacked against him.
Could have easily put him on a contending team instead of the unmotivated bunch he got.