Welcome back GP2!!

[Warriorfan]

One thing to note too since I see a point getting mangled a bit: the physical paperwork is what clued in the Warriors to the frequency/amount of toradol, but more importantly, its long-term prognosis. IE - why its being given to him, what the plan is, as you cant just keep using toradol, its meant to be a bridge, typically one thats used at the end of an injury.

If the Blazers GM didn't indicate in trade talks about this, its not illegal, just immoral. Thus, the league cannot punish them. What would actually be illegal is if in the physical paperwork there's no indication of treatment.

Not defending it, just clarifying that there's likely no grounds for the league to step in, and any changes in compensation would likely be between the 2 teams, not handed down by Silver

It might not be illegal for them to not disclose his injury status in trade talks, but the league could still decide to punish them for doing it.

no, they cannot. The official medical information is shared via physicals by physicians, anything shared in trade talks is a courtesy. Like if the Warriors sold off Wiseman as a great guy when it turns out he was pariah on the team, that's not illegal either. It looks terrible if they did it and likely affects relationships with other GMs, but if the league started arbitrarily punishing for things that are not against the rules, that would be problematic

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/report-sixers-did-not-disclose-jrue-holiday-injury-to-pelicans-fined-3-million-by-nba/

[CDM_Stats]

It might not be illegal for them to not disclose his injury status in trade talks, but the league could still decide to punish them for doing it.

no, they cannot. The official medical information is shared via physicals by physicians, anything shared in trade talks is a courtesy. Like if the Warriors sold off Wiseman as a great guy when it turns out he was pariah on the team, that's not illegal either. It looks terrible if they did it and likely affects relationships with other GMs, but if the league started arbitrarily punishing for things that are not against the rules, that would be problematic

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/report-sixers-did-not-disclose-jrue-holiday-injury-to-pelicans-fined-3-million-by-nba/

I find myself replying to people I really don't want to, but to be clear: there is a difference in omitting a detail in a physical report (and yes, if the physicians do it the team is responsible) and omitting a detail in informal trade talks. Which is my point.

[BayAreaDub]

Prediction time. I'll predict: Portland and Golden State amend their part of the trade so that Golden State keeps their two 2nd round picks that were previously being sent to Portland. Having done so, the trade goes through. I don't know that I like that, but that's what I'll guess will happen.

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

[Big J]

no, they cannot. The official medical information is shared via physicals by physicians, anything shared in trade talks is a courtesy. Like if the Warriors sold off Wiseman as a great guy when it turns out he was pariah on the team, that's not illegal either. It looks terrible if they did it and likely affects relationships with other GMs, but if the league started arbitrarily punishing for things that are not against the rules, that would be problematic

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/report-sixers-did-not-disclose-jrue-holiday-injury-to-pelicans-fined-3-million-by-nba/

I find myself replying to people I really don't want to, but to be clear: there is a difference in omitting a detail in a physical report (and yes, if the physicians do it the team is responsible) and omitting a detail in informal trade talks. Which is my point.

How do you know that the Toradol shots came from a report? Did the report also include telling him to just "gut it out"?

[CDM_Stats]

Prediction time. I'll predict: Portland and Golden State amend their part of the trade so that Golden State keeps their two 2nd round picks that were previously being sent to Portland. Having done so, the trade goes through. I don't know that I like that, but that's what I'll guess will happen.

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

yes it can, provided there's no proof of deliberate intent to deceive on either party. The parties involved in the failed physical can add/subtract non-player assets that were owned by the 2 parties. So that means 2 2nds are on the table, POR 1st could be on the table, etc. But players cannot be added from any team, and no assets that originated from DET or ATL can be changed.

I'm not as sure of the last part, I'm not reading the CBA, but the Blazers and Warriors can rework non-player compensation for a failed physical, thus the window/deadline

[CDM_Stats]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/report-sixers-did-not-disclose-jrue-holiday-injury-to-pelicans-fined-3-million-by-nba/

I find myself replying to people I really don't want to, but to be clear: there is a difference in omitting a detail in a physical report (and yes, if the physicians do it the team is responsible) and omitting a detail in informal trade talks. Which is my point.

How do you know that the Toradol shots came from a report? Did the report also include telling him to just "gut it out"?

It would be extremely illegal to not detail out medicines administered to a player. Like beyond NBA punishment - its fraud.

And yes, medical reports say things like gut it out, or "lol but dont tell the warriors"

[HiRez]

Prediction time. I'll predict: Portland and Golden State amend their part of the trade so that Golden State keeps their two 2nd round picks that were previously being sent to Portland. Having done so, the trade goes through. I don't know that I like that, but that's what I'll guess will happen.

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

I’ve heard some info (unverified) that modifiying non-player considerations (picks, cash) might still be allowed. If so that might be a way out of this mess without the ugliness of undoing everything. Would be good to get clarification on that point.

Regardless, I think there’s an 80%+ chance the Warriors don’t void it and live with the consequences because everyone loves GP2 (Kerr most of all and I think this trade was to make him happy) and it still saves them a lot of tax money even if GP2 never plays another game.

[Warriorfan]

no, they cannot. The official medical information is shared via physicals by physicians, anything shared in trade talks is a courtesy. Like if the Warriors sold off Wiseman as a great guy when it turns out he was pariah on the team, that's not illegal either. It looks terrible if they did it and likely affects relationships with other GMs, but if the league started arbitrarily punishing for things that are not against the rules, that would be problematic

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/report-sixers-did-not-disclose-jrue-holiday-injury-to-pelicans-fined-3-million-by-nba/

I find myself replying to people I really don't want to, but to be clear: there is a difference in omitting a detail in a physical report (and yes, if the physicians do it the team is responsible) and omitting a detail in informal trade talks. Which is my point.

Precedence defines policy

[CDM_Stats]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/06/28/report-sixers-did-not-disclose-jrue-holiday-injury-to-pelicans-fined-3-million-by-nba/

I find myself replying to people I really don't want to, but to be clear: there is a difference in omitting a detail in a physical report (and yes, if the physicians do it the team is responsible) and omitting a detail in informal trade talks. Which is my point.

Precedence defines policy

And similar isn't same.

You can omit an x-ray and argue that its incidental or accidental. That was what the 76ers did, because a diagnosis - even for a hairline fracture - is subjective and not ironclad. There are doctors that have missed or dismissed hairline fractures, many times

You cannot forget to list the medications a person is on when giving official medical information to a new set of physicians. The liability is enormous, as if they administered a medication that had a bad reaction when combined with toradol, they could do career, even life, threatening damage to someone. When a player is given a medication, thats ironclad. Its an indisputable fact.

Let me bottom line it: if the Blazers doctors did not list that he was being injected with toradol, they will lose their licenses. If the Blazers GM didn't disclose this information to Myers when sealing the deal, he will be subject to criticism on basketball message boards and likely the loss of trust across the league

[Chris Porter's Hair]

Prediction time. I'll predict: Portland and Golden State amend their part of the trade so that Golden State keeps their two 2nd round picks that were previously being sent to Portland. Having done so, the trade goes through. I don't know that I like that, but that's what I'll guess will happen.

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

That is not my understanding. But feel free to predict it will either go through as-is or be voided.

Lots of people are proposing things that I do NOT think are legal (like us somehow "keeping" Bey even though we never had him to keep). But my understanding is that Portland and the Warriors can agree to change details that only apply to them. That would exclude Bey, Knox, or the 2nd round picks that originated with Atlanta.

[BayAreaDub]

Prediction time. I'll predict: Portland and Golden State amend their part of the trade so that Golden State keeps their two 2nd round picks that were previously being sent to Portland. Having done so, the trade goes through. I don't know that I like that, but that's what I'll guess will happen.

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

yes it can, provided there's no proof of deliberate intent to deceive on either party. The parties involved in the failed physical can add/subtract non-player assets that were owned by the 2 parties. So that means 2 2nds are on the table, POR 1st could be on the table, etc. But players cannot be added from any team, and no assets that originated from DET or ATL can be changed.

I'm not as sure of the last part, I'm not reading the CBA, but the Blazers and Warriors can rework non-player compensation for a failed physical, thus the window/deadline

I know that happened w/ the Thomas/Irving trade but don’t remember if that was amended post deadline. You sure they can post deadline? It’s been unclear. I still wouldn’t do it if it is possible.

[WESCO]

Prediction time. I'll predict: Portland and Golden State amend their part of the trade so that Golden State keeps their two 2nd round picks that were previously being sent to Portland. Having done so, the trade goes through. I don't know that I like that, but that's what I'll guess will happen.

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

That is not my understanding. But feel free to predict it will either go through as-is or be voided.

Lots of people are proposing things that I do NOT think are legal (like us somehow "keeping" Bey even though we never had him to keep). But my understanding is that Portland and the Warriors can agree to change details that only apply to them. That would exclude Bey, Knox, or the 2nd round picks that originated with Atlanta.

FWIW

Slater was pretty clear about it on 95.7 with Damon and Ratto that it's either yes or no.

[CDM_Stats]

Unfortunately this isn’t possible. Because the deadline has passed, the trade cannot be amended.

It’s either yes or no

yes it can, provided there's no proof of deliberate intent to deceive on either party. The parties involved in the failed physical can add/subtract non-player assets that were owned by the 2 parties. So that means 2 2nds are on the table, POR 1st could be on the table, etc. But players cannot be added from any team, and no assets that originated from DET or ATL can be changed.

I'm not as sure of the last part, I'm not reading the CBA, but the Blazers and Warriors can rework non-player compensation for a failed physical, thus the window/deadline

I know that happened w/ the Thomas/Irving trade but don’t remember if that was amended post deadline. You sure they can post deadline? It’s been unclear. I still wouldn’t do it if it is possible.

I dont think that one was near the deadline at all so they were pretty free to do whatever. But a failed physical, by rule, allows the affected teams 72 hours to remedy it. The logic is that the trade deadline is the last minute teams can submit trades to the league offices for approval, but stuff like physicals comes after that deadline, yet are still part of the original action (the trade submission). A failed physical, and its remedy, also falls into that category of being part of the original action.

At least thats how it was explained to me

I think it behooves the Warriors at this point to veto it, because if GP2 cant play this year without pain, they assume all the risk

[Dom801e]

Wiseman with a 12M expiring is worth a lot more than GP2 at 2/18M coming of a serious injury. I would veto the trade. Also would never work with Por current GM again.

[Big J]

If the dubs accept any version of this trade that had Gp2 & his contract coming to them then they are absolute fools.

[WESCO]

I think they take the trade "yes" and ask the league to punish PDX by compensating us with a 1st Rd pick or taking away a 1st.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

To be clear, despite what I predicted, I personally hope we just rescind the trade. I love GP2, but that's a very scary prospect. We could end up finding we traded Wiseman for worse than nothing; no appreciable benefit, but not saving most of the money.

[Samurai]

I loved what GP2 provided to the team last season. So for me it comes down to whether he can be that guy again, at least by the start of next season. If the answer is yes, I'd be OK with doing the deal as long as there is some type of compensation from Portland. Assuming we lose DDV, a healthy GP2 helps cushion that loss. If compensation (presumably in the way of picks) isn't possible, I'd reluctantly be inclined to pass. If the doctors are not highly confident that GP2 will be at last season's level physically by the start of next season, I'd be a hard pass.

If it is too awkward having Wiseman around, send him to Santa Cruz (it'll be beach weather in a few months!). If JW and the team can be adults about it, it would be even better if we give him playing time since without GP2 we aren't improving our title odds (even with a healthy GP2, we certainly aren't division favorites). If we aren't looking like a playoff team, give Wiseman the minutes he needs, hope he does well, and then we can attract better offers for him in the summer if we still want to move his dollars before next season.

[thunderdunk]

I loved what GP2 provided to the team last season. So for me it comes down to whether he can be that guy again, at least by the start of next season. If the answer is yes, I'd be OK with doing the deal as long as there is some type of compensation from Portland. Assuming we lose DDV, a healthy GP2 helps cushion that loss. If compensation (presumably in the way of picks) isn't possible, I'd reluctantly be inclined to pass. If the doctors are not highly confident that GP2 will be at last season's level physically by the start of next season, I'd be a hard pass.

If it is too awkward having Wiseman around, send him to Santa Cruz (it'll be beach weather in a few months!). If JW and the team can be adults about it, it would be even better if we give him playing time since without GP2 we aren't improving our title odds (even with a healthy GP2, we certainly aren't division favorites). If we aren't looking like a playoff team, give Wiseman the minutes he needs, hope he does well, and then we can attract better offers for him in the summer if we still want to move his dollars before next season.

Hard to believe that we're still talking about JW. That said, if GP2 isn't something near 100%, then he provides virtually no benefit to the Dubs, and the trade should be voided. Portland should be fined by the league, and/or the Dubs should sue Portland for fraud, to recover the millions that this will cost them in lux tax. JW should then be sent to Santa Cruz, like he should have been all season anyway, and the Dubs can revisit his situation over the summer.

Situations like this are why the league has a commissioner, and why the commissioner is a lawyer. It's not about whether misrepresenting GP's status was "illegal". It's a civil tort case, not a criminal case.

I don't know if the NBA has any rules about teams suing each other. If they are able to do so, this one looks like a slam dunk. Silver needs to step in and fix this.

[Swift21]

To be clear, despite what I predicted, I personally hope we just rescind the trade. I love GP2, but that's a very scary prospect. We could end up finding we traded Wiseman for worse than nothing; no appreciable benefit, but not saving most of the money.

Wiseman was giving us nothing so it's not much of a difference.