is Klay done?

[Dom801e]

Klay always has on and off shooting. He is done as a perimeter. But this thread should be done as well. He’s still a solid starter. But they need to decide between he and Poole. They can’t coexist and be a good team.

[floppymoose]

We should have traded Klay while he had value. He was hot at the perfect time.

[watch1958]

Klay always has on and off shooting. He is done as a perimeter. But this thread should be done as well. He’s still a solid starter. But they need to decide between he and Poole. They can’t coexist and be a good team.

Maybe too late.

[ILOVEIT]

Nah....come on. Klay will single handedly win us two playoff games. Book it.

He DEFINITELY isn't the problem. OFFENSE isn't the problem. We can't stop anyone or get defensive rebounds. Simple.

[azwfan]

Nah....come on. Klay will single handedly win us two playoff games. Book it.

He DEFINITELY isn't the problem. OFFENSE isn't the problem. We can't stop anyone or get defensive rebounds. Simple.

I'm glad you are confident we even make the playoffs. Or were you talking about next season?

[weekend_warrior]

Nah....come on. Klay will single handedly win us two playoff games. Book it.

He DEFINITELY isn't the problem. OFFENSE isn't the problem. We can't stop anyone or get defensive rebounds. Simple.

He is a significant part of the problem. The team is built to generate shots for Klay and Steph.

Problem is: Klay is at a career high in FGA and a career low in FG%. That's not a winning recipe, with how shaky the defense is.

[DAWill1128]

Klay has shot the ball really well the last two months. He has some dreadful games but on average his last two months have been some great shooting.

He's not a primary defender anymore, that's Wiggins job. I am confident the starting lineup with Curry is as good as anyone's.

But the three guard lineup is a mess defensively because Klay cannot be counted on defensively to that extent when playing alongside Poole and Steph.

That OG trade would've been huge since Klay would be defending others teams 4th options whether we play traditional or small. Strategically it would have been brilliant in terms of on court matchups.

Klay Thompson

February
25 PPG
47% 3P
45% FG

January
27 PPG
43% 3P
45% FG

[SpreeS]

Klay has shot the ball really well the last two months. He has some dreadful games but on average his last two months have been some great shooting.

He's not a primary defender anymore, that's Wiggins job. I am confident the starting lineup with Curry is as good as anyone's.

But the three guard lineup is a mess defensively because Klay cannot be counted on defensively to that extent when playing alongside Poole and Steph.

That OG trade would've been huge since Klay would be defending others teams 4th options whether we play traditional or small. Strategically it would have been brilliant in terms of on court matchups.

Klay Thompson

February
25 PPG
47% 3P
45% FG

January
27 PPG
43% 3P
45% FG

No no no. Avg numbers look ok, but interval/range is too huge. There are no consistency in Klay shooting.

For example in last 5 games .463 .468 .100 - perfect shooting, but in reality

3-13
4-11
15-22
12-28
5-21

One perfect game, one avg, two bad and one no comment. Team record is 2W-3L in these games, if he was consistent record could be 4W-1L.

[DAWill1128]

Klay has shot the ball really well the last two months. He has some dreadful games but on average his last two months have been some great shooting.

He's not a primary defender anymore, that's Wiggins job. I am confident the starting lineup with Curry is as good as anyone's.

But the three guard lineup is a mess defensively because Klay cannot be counted on defensively to that extent when playing alongside Poole and Steph.

That OG trade would've been huge since Klay would be defending others teams 4th options whether we play traditional or small. Strategically it would have been brilliant in terms of on court matchups.

Klay Thompson

February
25 PPG
47% 3P
45% FG

January
27 PPG
43% 3P
45% FG

No no no. Avg numbers look ok, but interval/range is too huge. There are no consistency in Klay shooting.

For example in last 5 games .463 .468 .100 - perfect shooting, but in reality

3-13
4-11
15-22
12-28
5-21

One perfect game, one avg, two bad and one no comment. Team record is 2W-3L in these games, if he was consistent record could be 4W-1L.

Klay has never been consistent. You can look at game logs from 2015 our first Championship and 2019 his peak before injury, guys got a lot 20% and 30% shooting nights. He always has had horrible shooting nights and amazing shooting nights.

But that's the recipe, we got two guys who can shoot lights out and if they are both cooking it's over for everyone else. Sometimes Klay covers for Steph and vice versa and that keeps us competitive.

I wouldn't discredit averages, Steph has bad nights too. If a guy is a 300 hitter and goes 1 for 5 one game and 4 for 5 the next he's still in a general a good hitter.

The team is 2nd in points per game, and 26th in points allowed. Thats 2nd in points per game with Steph missing a 1/3 of the season. If any issue exists it's the perimeter defense isn't great and we don't have a lot of interior depth.

[weekend_warrior]

Klay has shot the ball really well the last two months. He has some dreadful games but on average his last two months have been some great shooting.

He's not a primary defender anymore, that's Wiggins job. I am confident the starting lineup with Curry is as good as anyone's.

But the three guard lineup is a mess defensively because Klay cannot be counted on defensively to that extent when playing alongside Poole and Steph.

That OG trade would've been huge since Klay would be defending others teams 4th options whether we play traditional or small. Strategically it would have been brilliant in terms of on court matchups.

Klay Thompson

February
25 PPG
47% 3P
45% FG

January
27 PPG
43% 3P
45% FG

No no no. Avg numbers look ok, but interval/range is too huge. There are no consistency in Klay shooting.

For example in last 5 games .463 .468 .100 - perfect shooting, but in reality

3-13
4-11
15-22
12-28
5-21

One perfect game, one avg, two bad and one no comment. Team record is 2W-3L in these games, if he was consistent record could be 4W-1L.

Klay has never been consistent. You can look at game logs from 2015 our first Championship and 2019 his peak before injury, guys got a lot 20% and 30% shooting nights. He always has had horrible shooting nights and amazing shooting nights.

But that's the recipe, we got two guys who can shoot lights out and if they are both cooking it's over for everyone else. Sometimes Klay covers for Steph and vice versa and that keeps us competitive.

I wouldn't discredit averages, Steph has bad nights too. If a guy is a 300 hitter and goes 1 for 5 one game and 4 for 5 the next he's still in a general a good hitter.

The team is 2nd in points per game, and 26th in points allowed. If any issue exists it's the perimeter defense isn't great and we don't have a lot of interior depth.

Neither of you is wrong here. I would say the frequency of bad shooting games has gone up a little. Or at least the unrelenting habit to try to shoot through slumps. Maybe there isn't enough talent on the roster now to take shots away from him. But he definitely shouldn't be at a career high in FGA given his efficiency now.

Also, he used to make up for bad shooting games with highly consistent defensive effort. That used to increase the margin of error. Now, it's all hanging on his shot making ability.

And while he has won is a handful of games this season with insane shooting, he was a big factor of losing probably at least twice as many.

[thunderdunk]

Klay has a history of coming through big in big games. He's definitely someone you want on your team in a critical game. That said, he makes huge $$$, and the Dubs can't afford a $500M payroll forever. It will be interesting to see if he gives the Dubs a big hometown discount, in return for them paying him big time for 2+ completely lost seasons, or if he considers the next contract to be his last chance at a big payday and moving on. Unless he has an insatiable taste for private jets and personal islands, there's really nothing that he can't already buy in this world. Looney already took a big discount to remain a Warrior. Will be interesting to see what happens here.

[Hoopstar23]

Klay has a history of coming through big in big games. He's definitely someone you want on your team in a critical game. That said, he makes huge $$$, and the Dubs can't afford a $500M payroll forever. It will be interesting to see if he gives the Dubs a big hometown discount, in return for them paying him big time for 2+ completely lost seasons, or if he considers the next contract to be his last chance at a big payday and moving on. Unless he has an insatiable taste for private jets and personal islands, there's really nothing that he can't already buy in this world. Looney already took a big discount to remain a Warrior. Will be interesting to see what happens here.

he wants that last big pay day when the cap goes up in 2025, even though he's a MLE player at best

[DonaldSanders]

I don't want to rag on Klay, but his salary mixed with his shooting/defense is a big problem that we don't talk about much.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023.html#advanced::6

Just look at the TS%s for the team, Klay is at the bottom if you ignore Ryan Rollins. Wiggins and Kuminga are close to Klay, but they both are strong defenders for us and can do some stuff on the interior that Klay can't. Poole isn't far off, but he also provides assists/ball handling/playmaking. Klay's biggest issue is his 2P game, his 3s are still great. His 2P efficiency is dragging his TS% way down, and if he could turn down basically any shot where he has to dribble a bunch to get, it would improve his efficiency greatly. That night recently where JP had 12 assists and Klay was basically catch and shoot, he was total fire.

What should we do with Klay? Are we putting him in the wrong lineups? It is clear that Poole/Klay have a rough time together in terms of 2-man combos. If they aren't shooting lights out, then the bad defense they both play is a huge issue. How do we get more catch and shoot Klay, and less dribble dribble Klank? Catch and Shoot Klay is still VERY good at that, one of the best in the league in fact. But there seems to be a disconnect where if Klay can't get his 3P shot off, he settles for terrible 2p shots instead of passing out.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I don't want to rag on Klay, but his salary mixed with his shooting/defense is a big problem that we don't talk about much.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023.html#advanced::6

Just look at the TS%s for the team, Klay is at the bottom if you ignore Ryan Rollins. Wiggins and Kuminga are close to Klay, but they both are strong defenders for us and can do some stuff on the interior that Klay can't. Poole isn't far off, but he also provides assists/ball handling/playmaking. Klay's biggest issue is his 2P game, his 3s are still great. His 2P efficiency is dragging his TS% way down, and if he could turn down basically any shot where he has to dribble a bunch to get, it would improve his efficiency greatly. That night recently where JP had 12 assists and Klay was basically catch and shoot, he was total fire.

What should we do with Klay? Are we putting him in the wrong lineups? It is clear that Poole/Klay have a rough time together in terms of 2-man combos. If they aren't shooting lights out, then the bad defense they both play is a huge issue. How do we get more catch and shoot Klay, and less dribble dribble Klank? Catch and Shoot Klay is still VERY good at that, one of the best in the league in fact. But there seems to be a disconnect where if Klay can't get his 3P shot off, he settles for terrible 2p shots instead of passing out.

Some data that was interesting to me. When I read your post, my first reaction was that Klay has been playing much better as the season went on. However, while his TS% is higher in the last 30 days, it really isn't much higher. .555 for the season, .565 for the last 30 days. Notably, a few of the other Warriors have improved substantially. Wiggins and Kuminga I noticed along the way.

Klay has always been streaky, and the answer has always been, "You gotta let shooters shoot." But by now, we have a lot of data that he just isn't shooting as well as he used to. And if you aren't as good a shooter, shooting as much as he is just isn't appropriate. Lots of players find that if their shot isn't falling, they find other ways to contribute. And this might be the biggest gotcha. I anecdotally feel like his defense is improving as the season progresses, but still is definitely not where it was pre-injury. The other thing that was glaring to me (since I couldn't find a good source and had to calculate his TS% for the last 30 days by hand...) is that he's just not going to the line. In the last 30 days, he has 24 FTA in 11 games. Basically 2 shots a game. He's still a great free throw shooter, but it doesn't help much if he never goes to the line.

If he isn't making shots like he used to, he needs to do more than just continuing to take drifting 3 point shots and such. Or move the ball around more.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I don't want to rag on Klay, but his salary mixed with his shooting/defense is a big problem that we don't talk about much.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023.html#advanced::6

Just look at the TS%s for the team, Klay is at the bottom if you ignore Ryan Rollins. Wiggins and Kuminga are close to Klay, but they both are strong defenders for us and can do some stuff on the interior that Klay can't. Poole isn't far off, but he also provides assists/ball handling/playmaking. Klay's biggest issue is his 2P game, his 3s are still great. His 2P efficiency is dragging his TS% way down, and if he could turn down basically any shot where he has to dribble a bunch to get, it would improve his efficiency greatly. That night recently where JP had 12 assists and Klay was basically catch and shoot, he was total fire.

What should we do with Klay? Are we putting him in the wrong lineups? It is clear that Poole/Klay have a rough time together in terms of 2-man combos. If they aren't shooting lights out, then the bad defense they both play is a huge issue. How do we get more catch and shoot Klay, and less dribble dribble Klank? Catch and Shoot Klay is still VERY good at that, one of the best in the league in fact. But there seems to be a disconnect where if Klay can't get his 3P shot off, he settles for terrible 2p shots instead of passing out.

Some data that was interesting to me. When I read your post, my first reaction was that Klay has been playing much better as the season went on. However, while his TS% is higher in the last 30 days, it really isn't much higher. .555 for the season, .565 for the last 30 days. Notably, a few of the other Warriors have improved substantially. Wiggins and Kuminga I noticed along the way.

Klay has always been streaky, and the answer has always been, "You gotta let shooters shoot." But by now, we have a lot of data that he just isn't shooting as well as he used to. And if you aren't as good a shooter, shooting as much as he is just isn't appropriate. Lots of players find that if their shot isn't falling, they find other ways to contribute. And this might be the biggest gotcha. I anecdotally feel like his defense is improving as the season progresses, but still is definitely not where it was pre-injury. The other thing that was glaring to me (since I couldn't find a good source and had to calculate his TS% for the last 30 days by hand...) is that he's just not going to the line. In the last 30 days, he has 24 FTA in 11 games. Basically 2 shots a game. He's still a great free throw shooter, but it doesn't help much if he never goes to the line.

If he isn't making shots like he used to, he needs to do more than just continuing to take drifting 3 point shots and such. Or move the ball around more.

I was looking at some stats as well.

Klay is shooting well from 3. He's 40%, even in the 4th. He's still an excellent floor spacer, but he's a more expensive Duncan Robinson who thinks he's kobe. Klay has too much dribbling in his game right now, it's a similar problem to his start of the year. He needs to find that balance again.

Secondly, I blame wiggins/kerr. Wiggins has the game to be the no.2 and they team looks better for it. That leaves klay hunting more 3s rather than trying to create for himself. It woukd akso save his lefs to be better on defense. Wiggs needs to be more aggressive, but kerr also needs to run some action for him. There's just no shots to go around with poole and klay going unchecked.

Thirdly, keep klay far away from poole. Those 2 just dont work together.

[Old_Blue]

Klay is shooting well from 3. He's 40%, even in the 4th. He's still an excellent floor spacer, but he's a more expensive Duncan Robinson who thinks he's kobe.

Klay was always going to be expensive...this year. The unfortunate thing is that he'll be even more expensive next year. When you consider the enormous sum of money that extending Klay five years instead of four will have cost the Warriors, you can't help but wonder whether bad luxury tax planning contributed to Myers himself not yet being re-signed.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Klay is shooting well from 3. He's 40%, even in the 4th. He's still an excellent floor spacer, but he's a more expensive Duncan Robinson who thinks he's kobe.

Klay was always going to be expensive...this year. The unfortunate thing is that he'll be even more expensive next year. When you consider the enormous sum of money that extending Klay five years instead of four will have cost the Warriors, you can't help but wonder whether bad luxury tax planning contributed to Myers himself not yet being re-signed.

Klay was an elite 3 and D. I agree that he's hugely overpaid, but if his defense doesn't fall so hard, it would be easier to manage.

Look at guys like bridges, og, etc..the asking price is 3 to 4 first rounders and their next contract will probably be 30M plus. 2 way/elite 3 and D wings are insanely valuable.

They might have made the same mistake with poole.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I was looking at some stats as well.

Klay is shooting well from 3. He's 40%, even in the 4th. He's still an excellent floor spacer, but he's a more expensive Duncan Robinson who thinks he's kobe. Klay has too much dribbling in his game right now, it's a similar problem to his start of the year. He needs to find that balance again.

Secondly, I blame wiggins/kerr. Wiggins has the game to be the no.2 and they team looks better for it. That leaves klay hunting more 3s rather than trying to create for himself. It woukd akso save his lefs to be better on defense. Wiggs needs to be more aggressive, but kerr also needs to run some action for him. There's just no shots to go around with poole and klay going unchecked.

Thirdly, keep klay far away from poole. Those 2 just dont work together.

Something isn't adding up. If he's shooting really well from 3, is his poor TS% due to shooting *really* poorly on 2's? That would add up, but be really weird. He might be dribbling too much, but that wouldn't do anything to impact his TS%.

[wco81]

He can still be effective off pin downs if he curls in catches and shoot at around the elbow.

But if he has to dribble into the paint and fade away, it's a different story.

With Curry out, he's looking for his shot more. That worked well in January and some games in February but in the Lakers game it obviously didn't work out.

He had that big scoring outburst with 11 3-pointers and Poole was feeding him pretty well.

[and1GS]

I was looking at some stats as well.

Klay is shooting well from 3. He's 40%, even in the 4th. He's still an excellent floor spacer, but he's a more expensive Duncan Robinson who thinks he's kobe. Klay has too much dribbling in his game right now, it's a similar problem to his start of the year. He needs to find that balance again.

Secondly, I blame wiggins/kerr. Wiggins has the game to be the no.2 and they team looks better for it. That leaves klay hunting more 3s rather than trying to create for himself. It woukd akso save his lefs to be better on defense. Wiggs needs to be more aggressive, but kerr also needs to run some action for him. There's just no shots to go around with poole and klay going unchecked.

Thirdly, keep klay far away from poole. Those 2 just dont work together.

Something isn't adding up. If he's shooting really well from 3, is his poor TS% due to shooting *really* poorly on 2's? That would add up, but be really weird. He might be dribbling too much, but that wouldn't do anything to impact his TS%.

That's partially right. He has the second lowest TS% on the team (handily beating out Ryan Rollins) because he has the third worst 2pt% on the team (44.6%) and takes only 2 free throws a game. Funnily enough, that's good for third on the team in free throws per game, which illustrates our larger issue this year.

If you want to dig in a bit further, he has been exceptionally poor from midrange. 36% from 10-16 feet. 40% from 16 to 3pt range. Furthering that, what really drags him down is he's taking the fewest shots from 0-3 feet of anyone on the team, and has the third worst FG% on those shots.

All in all, he's a really good case study in what's been wrong with this team all season.