The Jalen Suggs Thread

[j_n]

I want Suggs to start at PG.

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If he became a good outside shooter than he's the perfect fit for us at PG, excellent defense, infectious energy, can cut, run the break and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, just stay healthy and keep improving.

[pepe1991]

I want Suggs to start at PG.

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If he became a good outside shooter than he's the perfect fit for us at PG, excellent defense, infectious energy, can cut, run the break and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, just stay healthy and keep improving.

How execlly he "doesn't need a ball to be effective" if he is one of the worst catch and shoot players nba has seen this year?

[cedric76]

I want Suggs to start at PG.

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If he became a good outside shooter than he's the perfect fit for us at PG, excellent defense, infectious energy, can cut, run the break and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, just stay healthy and keep improving.

How execlly he "doesn't need a ball to be effective" if he is one of the worst catch and shoot players nba has seen this year?

And as we all know, diggs is a finished product because he has played hundreds of game in NBA

Pepe will Pepe

[pepe1991]

If he became a good outside shooter than he's the perfect fit for us at PG, excellent defense, infectious energy, can cut, run the break and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, just stay healthy and keep improving.

How execlly he "doesn't need a ball to be effective" if he is one of the worst catch and shoot players nba has seen this year?

And as we all know, diggs is a finished product because he has played hundreds of game in NBA

Pepe will Pepe

Projecting something to be "strenght" is laughable if you have 2 years of data ( + college) to figure that's easly one of worst parts of his game, and with turnovers, his biggest weakness.

In order to become nba level starting POINT GUARD Suggs needs:
- improve as ballhandler A LOT
- improve as shooter overall
- cut down turnovers
- expend his floor vision
- not jump in air without purpose
- play with better pace and more composure
- not be reckless


In order to play any guard spot as starter he needs to improve his catch & shoot a lot.

You can't shoot 30% for 3 and 57% inside 3 feet as guard no matter how experienced or inexperienced you are. That's just not gonna cut it in today's league and with so much talent flying around.

Just look at some Jaden Ivey or Mathurin, both rookies, both already surpassed him in pretty much all offensive categories.


Suggs is what Suggs is today. Defensive specialist with lacking offense who can't play PG due set of issues he has that i mentioned above. Two okey games in a row won't change outlook. It's same Jalen Suggs who averaged 5,5 ppg on 37% FG-23% for 3 for a month- 14 days ago.

[Magic_Kingdom]

Suggs hasn’t made that year 2 jump. That’s concerning. But management hasn’t done him any favors. Anthony, Fultz and Suggs should not all still be on the roster. One needs to go.

[VFX]

Suggs hasn’t made that year 2 jump. That’s concerning. But management hasn’t done him any favors. Anthony, Fultz and Suggs should not all still be on the roster. One needs to go.

He hasn’t? I’m pretty sure he’s better in every category since his rookie season. Orlando has built leads in many games with Cole and especially Suggs on the floor.

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs hasn’t made that year 2 jump. That’s concerning. But management hasn’t done him any favors. Anthony, Fultz and Suggs should not all still be on the roster. One needs to go.

He hasn’t? I’m pretty sure he’s better in every category since his rookie season. Orlando has built leads in many games with Cole and especially Suggs on the floor.

I tried to see if there was any advanced stats at supporting this. Yet couldn't find any. Either because I am bad at it or running out of time.

Moreover. A simple look at his stateline this year to last year does seem to indicate a year over year improvement as the state line looks better across the board. Notably a 9% increase in 3pt % is not an accident.

I know we are all in love with saying when Cole + Fultz came back we were a .500 team. Ok now that we said that, our LONG term memory needs to kick in and remember that even with Suggs at PG and then PG by committee we still were close in a lot of those games we lost only to lose it in the last 2 minutes of regulation. Some were even suggesting that we were purposefully tanking. (I started listening into games roughly during the winning streak and commenting in the forum about the same time.)

I think the reality is simply the truth, Suggs has improved he is just behind more naturally talented Fultz + Cole. I am tempted to play the what if we subtracted Fultz or Cole and forced Suggs into the backup PG role if we would still be a .500 team. The answer. Maybe. Depends on how good in this imaginary situation our backup SG is and whether or not we are stuck with Cole or Fultz.

Oof that was longer then I thought.

[JoshuaPotter]

The other problem with this imaginary situation is how many people would be in an uproar over our potentially worse record then now. I doubt it would be better, but notably it wouldn't hurt us to be worse off in the standings come lottery ball time.

The TL DR version of my post. People are mad we aren't winning more when we are way ahead of the upward track. If we did make the playins one could argue our team has generational potential and is a tweak or two away.

[tiderulz]

I want Suggs to start at PG.

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If he became a good outside shooter than he's the perfect fit for us at PG, excellent defense, infectious energy, can cut, run the break and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, just stay healthy and keep improving.

he also needs better ball handling to be the PG. I would say the are subpar for a starting PG

[fendilim]

I want Suggs to start at PG.

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If he became a good outside shooter than he's the perfect fit for us at PG, excellent defense, infectious energy, can cut, run the break and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, just stay healthy and keep improving.

How execlly he "doesn't need a ball to be effective" if he is one of the worst catch and shoot players nba has seen this year?

Suggs doesn’t need the ball to be effective because he won’t end up missing a shot if he doesn’t touch the ball.

[pepe1991]

Suggs hasn’t made that year 2 jump. That’s concerning. But management hasn’t done him any favors. Anthony, Fultz and Suggs should not all still be on the roster. One needs to go.

He hasn’t? I’m pretty sure he’s better in every category since his rookie season. Orlando has built leads in many games with Cole and especially Suggs on the floor.

Because his rookie stats were historically bad. Even Frank Ntikilina and Hayes had better rookie percentages.

He had nowhere to go but up.

It's like saying Fultz showed massive strieds as 3 point shooter. From 23% on uber low usage to 30%. I mean, yes, he did. On greater scale, compared to other nba players, he is still awful, regardless of internall "growth"


I'm all for playing Suggs and giving him 20-25 mpg to develop . But he is far away from projected 5th overall pick. His tragjectory is closer to Mo Bamba ( bench player) than starter, let alone star ( or savior some people expected).

[VFX]

Suggs hasn’t made that year 2 jump. That’s concerning. But management hasn’t done him any favors. Anthony, Fultz and Suggs should not all still be on the roster. One needs to go.

He hasn’t? I’m pretty sure he’s better in every category since his rookie season. Orlando has built leads in many games with Cole and especially Suggs on the floor.

Because his rookie stats were historically bad. Even Frank Ntikilina and Hayes had better rookie percentages.

He had nowhere to go but up.

It's like saying Fultz showed massive strieds as 3 point shooter. From 23% on uber low usage to 30%. I mean, yes, he did. On greater scale, compared to other nba players, he is still awful, regardless of internall "growth"


I'm all for playing Suggs and giving him 20-25 mpg to develop . But he is far away from projected 5th overall pick. His tragjectory is closer to Mo Bamba ( bench player) than starter, let alone star ( or savior some people expected).

Definitely not 5th overall pick hype people gave him.

However, the defense isn’t something to downplay. He’s an all defensive first team kind of talent.

I disagree that he’s closer to a bench player than a starter. There have been a few games where the Magic probably would have won had he been on the court guarding the other teams best wing instead of Gary Harris.

I’d start him over Gary Harris outright.

[cedric76]

How execlly he "doesn't need a ball to be effective" if he is one of the worst catch and shoot players nba has seen this year?

And as we all know, diggs is a finished product because he has played hundreds of game in NBA

Pepe will Pepe

Projecting something to be "strenght" is laughable if you have 2 years of data ( + college) to figure that's easly one of worst parts of his game, and with turnovers, his biggest weakness.

In order to become nba level starting POINT GUARD Suggs needs:
- improve as ballhandler A LOT
- improve as shooter overall
- cut down turnovers
- expend his floor vision
- not jump in air without purpose
- play with better pace and more composure
- not be reckless


In order to play any guard spot as starter he needs to improve his catch & shoot a lot.

You can't shoot 30% for 3 and 57% inside 3 feet as guard no matter how experienced or inexperienced you are. That's just not gonna cut it in today's league and with so much talent flying around.

Just look at some Jaden Ivey or Mathurin, both rookies, both already surpassed him in pretty much all offensive categories.


Suggs is what Suggs is today. Defensive specialist with lacking offense who can't play PG due set of issues he has that i mentioned above. Two okey games in a row won't change outlook. It's same Jalen Suggs who averaged 5,5 ppg on 37% FG-23% for 3 for a month- 14 days ago.

Keep peping

[Knightro]

Because his rookie stats were historically bad. Even Frank Ntikilina and Hayes had better rookie percentages.

He had nowhere to go but up.

It's like saying Fultz showed massive strieds as 3 point shooter. From 23% on uber low usage to 30%. I mean, yes, he did. On greater scale, compared to other nba players, he is still awful, regardless of internall "growth"

I'm all for playing Suggs and giving him 20-25 mpg to develop . But he is far away from projected 5th overall pick. His tragjectory is closer to Mo Bamba ( bench player) than starter, let alone star ( or savior some people expected).

You're right that Suggs had a historically bad rookie season, but I don't think this is totally fair to suggest his improvement as a shooter shouldn't be taken seriously.

We write off Fultz's "improvement" as a shooter because of low volume and IMO that's fair to do, but Suggs isn't a low volume shooter at all. He's got a .474 3PT rate this year.

A guy like Fultz who has such a low volume of 3PT attempts, literally making 1-1 in tonight's game will lift his 3PT percentage by nearly 2 full percent.

Suggs in 80 career games, including last year's complete disaster season, has already made more threes than Fultz has made in 167 career games, ya know?

[Knightro]

Presented without comment...

RAPTOR
Jalen Suggs: -0.2 ORAPTOR, +3.0 DRAPTOR, +2.8 TOTAL RAPTOR
Cole Anthony: +1.8 ORAPTOR, +0.3 DRAPTOR, +2.2 TOTAL RAPTOR
Markelle Fultz: -1.5 ORAPTOR, -0.6 DRAPTOR, -2.1 TOTAL RAPTOR

Estimated Plus Minus
Suggs: -0.1
Anthony: -1.1
Fultz: -1.5

Net Rating
Anthony: -1.4
Suggs: -2.9
Fultz: -7.0

[fendilim]

Suggs hasn’t made that year 2 jump. That’s concerning. But management hasn’t done him any favors. Anthony, Fultz and Suggs should not all still be on the roster. One needs to go.

He hasn’t? I’m pretty sure he’s better in every category since his rookie season. Orlando has built leads in many games with Cole and especially Suggs on the floor.

Because his rookie stats were historically bad. Even Frank Ntikilina and Hayes had better rookie percentages.

He had nowhere to go but up.

It's like saying Fultz showed massive strieds as 3 point shooter. From 23% on uber low usage to 30%. I mean, yes, he did. On greater scale, compared to other nba players, he is still awful, regardless of internall "growth"


I'm all for playing Suggs and giving him 20-25 mpg to develop . But he is far away from projected 5th overall pick. His tragjectory is closer to Mo Bamba ( bench player) than starter, let alone star ( or savior some people expected).

A star? He was projected to be a culture changer, someone like Kyle Lowry or Billups. But a star? You may be just expecting too much.

[basketballRob]

Suggs is 17th in the league in defensive Raptor with over 730 minutes. He's at +3.0. He's 48th overall, right behind Franz at 43rd.

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[eyriq]

Presented without comment...

RAPTOR
Jalen Suggs: -0.2 ORAPTOR, +3.0 DRAPTOR, +2.8 TOTAL RAPTOR
Cole Anthony: +1.8 ORAPTOR, +0.3 DRAPTOR, +2.2 TOTAL RAPTOR
Markelle Fultz: -1.5 ORAPTOR, -0.6 DRAPTOR, -2.1 TOTAL RAPTOR

Estimated Plus Minus
Suggs: -0.1
Anthony: -1.1
Fultz: -1.5

Net Rating
Anthony: -1.4
Suggs: -2.9
Fultz: -7.0

Dayuum

[VFX]

Suggs is 17th in the league in defensive Raptor with over 730 minutes. He's at +3.0. He's 48th overall, right behind Franz at 43rd.

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17th in the league in your second year is pretty crazy

[Knightro]

Suggs is 17th in the league in defensive Raptor with over 730 minutes. He's at +3.0. He's 48th overall, right behind Franz at 43rd.

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17th in the league in your second year is pretty crazy

He was 24th in defensive RAPTOR last year as a rookie too.

So we're slowly moving away from "this is a fluke/small sample size noise" territory and creeping into "this guy has game changing defensive potential" territory.