KD to the Suns

[King4Day]

A couple of things. Sarver knew that he was a problem drawing free agents, so if Sarver was the owner, this trade might have been a bad one since he would not have been able to fill out the roster with buyout players.

Even if the Suns do not win a championship, this is a smart move from Ishbia's perspective. Stars sell tickets. I LOVE the team ball that the Suns play with Cam and Mikal, but KD and especially the combo of KD, Book, and CP3 is going to fill up the building and sell lots of merch. Also, Ishbia immediately gets NBA player cred for being willing to spend to win. That gets him more players in the future, and that might even a better bet than the draft. When KD and CP3 come off the payroll, the Suns will have the money to add another player for another big 3.

We sold Mikal high. His offensive numbers during Booker's absence proved he could score. With Book and Cp3 taking more of a prime role again, his scoring would have dropped back. If we were going to move him, it was the perfect moment.

I love Mikal. Like Book said, lets get him back in 2026.

Excellent post!

[King4Day]

Idk if this already got talked about here but has anyone read the article below? Any thoughts on it?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/philboas/2023/02/10/kevin-durant-to-phoenix-suns-worst-trade-arizona-sports-history/69893819007/

If there’s a paywall block then try link below

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/02/12/columnist-kevin-durant-trade-suns-nets-worst-arizona-sports-history

I haven't read it but I assume it's more of click bait. "Seeing things from both sides". It'll only ever really be the worst ever trade IF we lose KD to injury immediately and the team starts tanking or whatever.
It really hurts losing Bridges and Johnson (though we're all mostly attached to Mikal the most). If people thought adding CP would be good for drawing free agents (and the people he drew weren't stars, but solid role players who fit on the court in Crowder and JaVale, etc), imagine what a player like KD can draw? The league sees him and thinks title. Players WILL take less pay for a chance to win.

[King4Day]

I may be wrong, but don't recall KD (or Kyrie) having a presser when they signed with Brooklyn. Perhaps they did but it was quiet if so.
Good sign he's willing to do this and I'm really excited to hear 'why' he wants to be here.

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

Idk if this already got talked about here but has anyone read the article below? Any thoughts on it?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/philboas/2023/02/10/kevin-durant-to-phoenix-suns-worst-trade-arizona-sports-history/69893819007/

If there’s a paywall block then try link below

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/02/12/columnist-kevin-durant-trade-suns-nets-worst-arizona-sports-history

I think what he says is valid. I do think Ishbia got a little overexuberant. It could pay off, but we know the playoffs are always a crapshoot and health has been the biggest key the last two years for other teams and us. Booker missed a couple Pelicans games, and while Ayton and Paul carried us through one of them for a win, the Book absence could have really hurt.

Then Paul didn't look like himself.

Now we have to hope all of our big 3 can stay healthy and if we miss one of Book and KD I don't think we have a chance. And it would be tough if we are missing Paul and Payne...though should be ok with one or the other.

But mortgaging the future..that stuff matters. We gave up two really good young players for a player 8 years older, very injury prone along with 4-5 picks. I always talk about how it hurts that we have no rookie contracts or young guys in development and that will continue outside of maybe next year's pick.

We can't use our leftover ones in trade and have no young players to trade so really can't trade anymore for any kind of difference maker for quite some time, unless we end up trading Book for a haul once he realizes he's the only core guy left.

It's just got to pan out and KD hopefully can stay injury prone for 5 years or so.

There is a chance it could pay off short term with a better chance at a championship, but still for any team, everything goes right and you have less than a 50% chance getting out of the west unless you are those old Warriors with KD who won 73 and added KD without giving up any core players.

Then maybe a 50/50 chance against the EC team.

So it's basically like maybe making a big gamble with all your money and your mortgage on maybe a 20-25% chance at a championship the next 2-3 years.

I can somewhat understand the thinking, though I think few GMs would have done it, knowing the downside is real and the upside is a risky proposition.

[King4Day]

Much as I don't like Monty's x's and o's with his coaching, he does have the respect of players. They enjoy playing for him. He's not a guy that someone like KD will try to take advantage of like Nash. I'm also confident Paul expressed what it is like playing for him too.
The 'fatherly figure' that Monty exudes might be one of the best things for KD too. That 'just play with no pressure and be yourself' attitude is a big deal IMO.

[bwgood77]

I think we are going way, way out of our way to keep 2 role players turning 27.

Warren is as close to Murray than Murray is to Durant.

That’s not the same though.

Murray/Bridges/Johnson/trading 1 less first rd pick is what the difference to acquiring him instead of Durant is. The value between the two leans in favor of the former, imo.

Other factor is Murray has another 5-6 years of being a borderline All Star caliber player while KD has at most 1 or maybe (if we all sit and pray together) 2 years left before his already skinny and fragile bones fall apart completely and his availability becomes worse than Kobe’s in the latter years of his career.

But if we win championships then it’s all a moot point. The expectation should be at least 2 championships within the next 2-3 years if not at least 1 title needed for this trade to not be a disaster.

Yeah, of course Murray is a better option if you believe in Booker, Bridges, Cam and want a longer window. We were already the favorites for 2 years and would have a bunch of young guys getting better. Yes, we have a very small window at sacrifice of future.

[bwgood77]

"He who doesn't take risks, never gets to drink champagne"

Or he loses all his money gambling and really starts drinking and his life goes down the ****. Risks can obviously go both ways. That's why they are risks.

[bwgood77]

There's clearly merit on both approaches.

Quite simply:

Do you want to give yourself the best opportunity you're *likely* to get to become a tier 1 contender at the cost of everything plus the kitchen sink?

Or do you want to keep running with the fun group of guys, keep all of your assets and maybe, hopefully one day become a tier 1 contender?

Why is this the only two options though?

Another option should be, do you want to keep running with the same group with a few minor changes to shore up some of the weaknesses such as another ball handler/bench scoring etc.

I touched on this a bit on my post here

viewtopic.php?p=104212795#p104212795

That's basically the 2nd option because adding a ball handler or a little more scoring depth doesn't make us a tier 1 contender that adding a KD would. I think last playoffs showed us we were more pretenders than contenders without that third all-star+ level player. Dallas beat us with one all-NBA level guy and one all-star level player because one of our all-star+ level player just didn't show up after G2 and we had no one else to rely on. Even Book wasn't all that in that Dallas series either with 3 sub-20pt games in that series. KD gives us a certified playoff performer that can legitimately carry a team by himself. He allows CP3, Book or DA to have no show games and still have a chance in every game because he's just that level of player.

I think the Kyrie thing is just as risky if not more. Yes it would've been awesome to have kept the Twins and 1-2 of those picks but he's also a proven head case. If we don't win it all this year, you basically have to resign him (long term) otherwise we would've given up those picks for a few months of Kyrie. Then if you resign him long term, how long until that whole Kyrie situations turns untenable again, like at every one of his stops?

So yes, the give up would've been lower for Kyrie but you also get what you pay for......the way I'm looking at it with the KD vs Kyrie debate, it's buy it nice or buy it twice.

It's amazing to me people act like that Mavs series was indicative of much. If we played that series 10 times, we probably win 7 or 8. That game 7 wasn't our team...that was a team that choked. Book started off the game taking a lot of shots and choked like against the Bucks in our elimination game. Then the whole team choked. Adding one player, even a star, would not have changed that game 7.

We got too confident after game 5, talked crap, and couldn't follow through, giving them extra motivation in the process.

[bwgood77]

A couple of things. Sarver knew that he was a problem drawing free agents, so if Sarver was the owner, this trade might have been a bad one since he would not have been able to fill out the roster with buyout players.

Even if the Suns do not win a championship, this is a smart move from Ishbia's perspective. Stars sell tickets. I LOVE the team ball that the Suns play with Cam and Mikal, but KD and especially the combo of KD, Book, and CP3 is going to fill up the building and sell lots of merch. Also, Ishbia immediately gets NBA player cred for being willing to spend to win. That gets him more players in the future, and that might even a better bet than the draft. When KD and CP3 come off the payroll, the Suns will have the money to add another player for another big 3.

We sold Mikal high. His offensive numbers during Booker's absence proved he could score. With Book and Cp3 taking more of a prime role again, his scoring would have dropped back. If we were going to move him, it was the perfect moment.

I love Mikal. Like Book said, lets get him back in 2026.

Lots of teams will spend though and have nice places to live. None of us care about selling merch (which get distributed to the all NBA teams anyway....all merch gets divided). We won't have any cap space (or limited space) until KD comes off the books. Maybe we sign a big name player, but even being a top destination, it's pretty rare big name players move in FA outside of LeBron and KD each twice. Most of them we see want to stay with their teams. But we may be able to get Bridges.

Ishbia wanted to make a splash and was a bit too eager to jump all in being a new owner with a new toy. We will see if it pays off and they stay healthy and have the kind of lucky run you need to win a championship.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Looks good. Hopefully he’s back that first game after All Star break.

[BobbieL]

Why is this the only two options though?

Another option should be, do you want to keep running with the same group with a few minor changes to shore up some of the weaknesses such as another ball handler/bench scoring etc.

I touched on this a bit on my post here

viewtopic.php?p=104212795#p104212795

That's basically the 2nd option because adding a ball handler or a little more scoring depth doesn't make us a tier 1 contender that adding a KD would. I think last playoffs showed us we were more pretenders than contenders without that third all-star+ level player. Dallas beat us with one all-NBA level guy and one all-star level player because one of our all-star+ level player just didn't show up after G2 and we had no one else to rely on. Even Book wasn't all that in that Dallas series either with 3 sub-20pt games in that series. KD gives us a certified playoff performer that can legitimately carry a team by himself. He allows CP3, Book or DA to have no show games and still have a chance in every game because he's just that level of player.

I think the Kyrie thing is just as risky if not more. Yes it would've been awesome to have kept the Twins and 1-2 of those picks but he's also a proven head case. If we don't win it all this year, you basically have to resign him (long term) otherwise we would've given up those picks for a few months of Kyrie. Then if you resign him long term, how long until that whole Kyrie situations turns untenable again, like at every one of his stops?

So yes, the give up would've been lower for Kyrie but you also get what you pay for......the way I'm looking at it with the KD vs Kyrie debate, it's buy it nice or buy it twice.

It's amazing to me people act like that Mavs series was indicative of much. If we played that series 10 times, we probably win 7 or 8. That game 7 wasn't our team...that was a team that choked. Book started off the game taking a lot of shots and choked like against the Bucks in our elimination game. Then the whole team choked. Adding one player, even a star, would not have changed that game 7.

We got too confident after game 5, talked crap, and couldn't follow through, giving them extra motivation in the process.

Other than mentally - how the team responds, I would be okay playing the Mavs again. You are right, the Mavs scored early, Booker missed early and it just snowballed.

[sashaturiaf]

A couple of things. Sarver knew that he was a problem drawing free agents, so if Sarver was the owner, this trade might have been a bad one since he would not have been able to fill out the roster with buyout players.

Even if the Suns do not win a championship, this is a smart move from Ishbia's perspective. Stars sell tickets. I LOVE the team ball that the Suns play with Cam and Mikal, but KD and especially the combo of KD, Book, and CP3 is going to fill up the building and sell lots of merch. Also, Ishbia immediately gets NBA player cred for being willing to spend to win. That gets him more players in the future, and that might even a better bet than the draft. When KD and CP3 come off the payroll, the Suns will have the money to add another player for another big 3.

We sold Mikal high. His offensive numbers during Booker's absence proved he could score. With Book and Cp3 taking more of a prime role again, his scoring would have dropped back. If we were going to move him, it was the perfect moment.

I love Mikal. Like Book said, lets get him back in 2026.

Great points.

Let's just hope Ishbia isn't a one move wonder. The NBA was pretty high on Joe Tsai after the Nets first signed KD and Kyrie as well...

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Looks good. Hopefully he’s back that first game after All Star break.

Well if Flex is correct - it seems that is the target for not only KD, but Shamet and Payne too. Wow - wouldn't that be nice to be at full strength the last 22 games of the season. I will take a split with the Kings and Clippers this week, 32-28 at the break and figure out rest of the season

Read on Twitter

[Gorilla Warfare]

I’ll be courtside for the Magic game on 3/16. My first ever courtside game. Fingers crossed we’re fully healthy by then.

[TOO]

"He who doesn't take risks, never gets to drink champagne"

Or he loses all his money gambling and really starts drinking and his life goes down the ****. Risks can obviously go both ways. That's why they are risks.

In this case it's just sports and it doesn't actually matter.

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

A couple of things. Sarver knew that he was a problem drawing free agents, so if Sarver was the owner, this trade might have been a bad one since he would not have been able to fill out the roster with buyout players.

Even if the Suns do not win a championship, this is a smart move from Ishbia's perspective. Stars sell tickets. I LOVE the team ball that the Suns play with Cam and Mikal, but KD and especially the combo of KD, Book, and CP3 is going to fill up the building and sell lots of merch. Also, Ishbia immediately gets NBA player cred for being willing to spend to win. That gets him more players in the future, and that might even a better bet than the draft. When KD and CP3 come off the payroll, the Suns will have the money to add another player for another big 3.

We sold Mikal high. His offensive numbers during Booker's absence proved he could score. With Book and Cp3 taking more of a prime role again, his scoring would have dropped back. If we were going to move him, it was the perfect moment.

I love Mikal. Like Book said, lets get him back in 2026.

Great points.

Let's just hope Ishbia isn't a one move wonder. The NBA was pretty high on Joe Tsai after the Nets first signed KD and Kyrie as well...

And Sarver after bringing back Nash and spending a lot of money on him and Q. I was kind of pissed though they just didn't extend Joe Johnson (they were off by $5 million over 6 years) and spent all that money on Q instead of just drafting Igoudala (they traded that pick to NY for a pick the following year which ended up being the 21st pick (Nate Robinson)).

[bwgood77]

"He who doesn't take risks, never gets to drink champagne"

Or he loses all his money gambling and really starts drinking and his life goes down the ****. Risks can obviously go both ways. That's why they are risks.

In this case it's just sports and it doesn't actually matter.

Yeah, but depending on fandom level it can be disappointing if you've watched the team for years and plan to continue watching.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Looks good. Hopefully he’s back that first game after All Star break.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter