Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't want him to be the PG per se.

When he is assigned the point (say the games FVV was hurt), he tends to pound at the top a little more than normal, and tries to create from the top which due to his dribbling and penetration restricts lanes and his great passing skills. The games he was the point are not those he has had the most assists.

I just want him to get the ball much more in varied spots within the key. Or get him the ball when he is moving/rolling where he has a knack more than others to create. That is where he can do damage and take advantage of his +++ creation and passing skills more easily.

So there would be another PG on the floor, but they would play off the ball much more than the current PG in FVV. Frustrating thing, is that it probably could work between the two because FVV despite his struggles is a good shooter. But for whatever reasons its not working.

One of the down the road problems is that it actually takes work and skill to get "point Scottie" in those spots. Like, can we name 5 point guards that can play off him? And he's not getting early doubles on post-ups and elbow touches, and I'd actually be worried if he did because his handle is still high and awkward.

imo a lot of this is on Barnes' shoulders to work on in the summer. Can't do much about this year. He just didn't add anything to his bag that the team can rely on.

[HumbleRen]

I don't want him to be the PG per se.

When he is assigned the point (say the games FVV was hurt), he tends to pound at the top a little more than normal, and tries to create from the top which due to his dribbling and penetration restricts lanes and his great passing skills. The games he was the point are not those he has had the most assists.

I just want him to get the ball much more in varied spots within the key. Or get him the ball when he is moving/rolling where he has a knack more than others to create. That is where he can do damage and take advantage of his +++ creation and passing skills more easily.

So there would be another PG on the floor, but they would play off the ball much more than the current PG in FVV. Frustrating thing, is that it probably could work between the two because FVV despite his struggles is a good shooter. But for whatever reasons its not working.

One of the down the road problems is that it actually takes work and skill to get "point Scottie" in those spots. Like, can we name 5 point guards that can play off him? And he's not getting early doubles on post-ups and elbow touches, and I'd actually be worried if he did because his handle is still high and awkward.

imo a lot of this is on Barnes' shoulders to work on in the summer. Can't do much about this year. He just didn't add anything to his bag that the team can rely on.

I just don't see any PG role in his future unless he fundamentally changes his game and athleticism.

Sabonis and Draymond aren't PG's but they lead their team in assists, that's who Scottie is going be in terms of what a "PG" looks like.

He's not going to be the type of guy who drives to the rim 12-20 times a game like regular superstars do. He's going to rack up assists via players moving off the ball and diming them up or passing out of a double team. If he truly wants to become a #1 option or even 2nd option on a great playoff team, he's going to have to triple his current output of drives to the rim.

[OakleyDokely]

Do PG's even exist anymore? It's a term that isn't even relevant now. No modern offense has one designated player to run the entire show.

You have offensive initiators and you have offball players. All teams have both of these type of players. Scottie is going to be an offensive initiator, that much is clear.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Do PG's even exist anymore? It's a term that isn't even relevant now. No modern offense has one designated player to run the entire show.

You have offensive initiators and you have offball players. Scottie is going to be an offensive initiator, that much is clear.

How is he going to initiate? That's unclear.

Drives have to go way up. By next year I want to hear that he's beating Siakam to the gym in the morning.

[OakleyDokely]

Do PG's even exist anymore? It's a term that isn't even relevant now. No modern offense has one designated player to run the entire show.

You have offensive initiators and you have offball players. Scottie is going to be an offensive initiator, that much is clear.

How is he going to initiate? That's unclear.

Drives have to go way up. By next year I want to hear that he's beating Siakam to the gym in the morning.

He needs to do most of his damage inside, in the post, at least until he develops some kind of midrange game.

His FT's are trending up though, which is a positive sign. Over the last 20 games, he's averaging just a touch under 5 attempts per game, which is double the amount over his first 35 games.

[OakleyDokely]

Barnes, FT attempts:

OCT/NOV (18 GAMES): 1.6
DEC (15 GAMES): 3.2
JAN/FEB (22 GMS): 4.8

[Highflyerwire]

Scotties development should be guard focused. He’s already good in the post and has good offensive awareness. He is being used as a point forward Swiss Army knife and it’s working but if his handle and explosiveness improves as well as his fluidity and balance shooting it opens so much for him and the Raptors. Obviously he’s not a pg right now but given the correct development I don’t think it’s out of the question. My main concern with SB is his shot, takes too long to setup but there are signs of improvement and potential - just needs to be worked on. He literally has had good games playing every position this year so that’s promising.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Do PG's even exist anymore? It's a term that isn't even relevant now. No modern offense has one designated player to run the entire show.

You have offensive initiators and you have offball players. Scottie is going to be an offensive initiator, that much is clear.

How is he going to initiate? That's unclear.

Drives have to go way up. By next year I want to hear that he's beating Siakam to the gym in the morning.

He needs to do most of his damage inside, in the post, at least until he develops some kind of midrange game.

His FT's are trending up though, which is a positive sign. Over the last 20 games, he's averaging just a touch under 5 attempts per game, which is double the amount over his first 35 games.

imo too small to be a damaging post player and he doesn't have a turnaround jumper yet. He's got that running hook thing. He's got nice touch all over the paint and some creative finishes. There's no scoring game to really build around. And I think the Raptors want him to initiate from the perimeter. Drives are slightly up the last two months, but still not close to respectable.

I might be wrong but I counted one pick and roll with Poeltl so far and he blew the lay-up, but at least he got to the basket on it. They should run more of that the last few months to see what happens.

[sidsid]

I don't want him to be the PG per se.

When he is assigned the point (say the games FVV was hurt), he tends to pound at the top a little more than normal, and tries to create from the top which due to his dribbling and penetration restricts lanes and his great passing skills. The games he was the point are not those he has had the most assists.

I just want him to get the ball much more in varied spots within the key. Or get him the ball when he is moving/rolling where he has a knack more than others to create. That is where he can do damage and take advantage of his +++ creation and passing skills more easily.

So there would be another PG on the floor, but they would play off the ball much more than the current PG in FVV. Frustrating thing, is that it probably could work between the two because FVV despite his struggles is a good shooter. But for whatever reasons its not working.

Who brings the ball up the floor isn't much of a concern nor really the point. You'll need another ball handler after him and Siakam, but that's more to grease the wheels for an offense than an actual role.

You can give Scottie some PNR ball handling for flavour, but what you're really looking for in an offense that fits Scottie is movement by the entire team.

The fixation on how he does when plowing through guys in an iso - in the post or the perimeter - while no one moves is exactly what's wrong with the current coaching.

You want an offense that keeps the ball moving, that puts Scottie at the center of the decision making in the middle of the floor (Siakam would also cycle into those spots) and that encourages teammates to pass the ball with the expectation that they'll likely get it back during the possession.

Barnes already has the instincts to work off of that movement to create those advantages. He's raw in a lot of offensive skills, but manipulating defenses with his passing is ready now. Just need a coach/offense who will exploit it. This has been a wasted year on that front. Team is way worse off because of it.

[Thaddy]

The 3pt shot is the most important part of his game that's missing from Barnes. We all expects 38% on the same attempts as last year and he's around the same. Disappointing sophomore season from Barnes to say the least.

[God Squad]

The 3pt shot is the most important part of his game that's missing from Barnes. We all expects 38% on the same attempts as last year and he's around the same. Disappointing sophomore season from Barnes to say the least.

Cap. Who thought Scottie was going to shoot 38% from 3 in his sophomore year?

[Spates]

I don't want him to be the PG per se.

When he is assigned the point (say the games FVV was hurt), he tends to pound at the top a little more than normal, and tries to create from the top which due to his dribbling and penetration restricts lanes and his great passing skills. The games he was the point are not those he has had the most assists.

I just want him to get the ball much more in varied spots within the key. Or get him the ball when he is moving/rolling where he has a knack more than others to create. That is where he can do damage and take advantage of his +++ creation and passing skills more easily.

So there would be another PG on the floor, but they would play off the ball much more than the current PG in FVV. Frustrating thing, is that it probably could work between the two because FVV despite his struggles is a good shooter. But for whatever reasons its not working.

Who brings the ball up the floor isn't much of a concern nor really the point. You'll need another ball handler after him and Siakam, but that's more to grease the wheels for an offense than an actual role.

You can give Scottie some PNR ball handling for flavour, but what you're really looking for in an offense that fits Scottie is movement by the entire team.

The fixation on how he does when plowing through guys in an iso - in the post or the perimeter - while no one moves is exactly what's wrong with the current coaching.

You want an offense that keeps the ball moving, that puts Scottie at the center of the decision making in the middle of the floor (Siakam would also cycle into those spots) and that encourages teammates to pass the ball with the expectation that they'll likely get it back during the possession.

Barnes already has the instincts to work off of that movement to create those advantages. He's raw in a lot of offensive skills, but manipulating defenses with his passing is ready now. Just need a coach/offense who will exploit it. This has been a wasted year on that front. Team is way worse off because of it.

You might appreciate this video. It's a breakdown of the damage of good roll man can provide. I think a lot of what's here in this video can be emulated by Precious, Barnes, and Jakob.

Watch on YouTube

Compare that action to this:

This is cherrypicked, of course. But it's a woefully blown 2 on 1. The roll is rarely a threat with Fred as the handler.

[Thaddy]

The 3pt shot is the most important part of his game that's missing from Barnes. We all expects 38% on the same attempts as last year and he's around the same. Disappointing sophomore season from Barnes to say the least.

Cap. Who thought Scottie was going to shoot 38% from 3 in his sophomore year?

David Thorpe said it was a huge swing factor for us last summer.

[God Squad]

The 3pt shot is the most important part of his game that's missing from Barnes. We all expects 38% on the same attempts as last year and he's around the same. Disappointing sophomore season from Barnes to say the least.

Cap. Who thought Scottie was going to shoot 38% from 3 in his sophomore year?

David Thorpe said it was a huge swing factor for us last summer.

Being a swing skill (which I agree with) isn't the same as "We all expect 38% on the same attempts"

[OakleyDokely]

Cap. Who thought Scottie was going to shoot 38% from 3 in his sophomore year?

David Thorpe said it was a huge swing factor for us last summer.

Being a swing skill (which I agree with) isn't the same as "We all expect 38% on the same attempts"

for their careers, Cade is currently 30% on 3s, Mobley is 23%, Jalen Green is 33%, Suggs is 24%, Giddey is 28%.

Expecting 38% from 3 from a sophomore (who wasn't drafted as a 3pt specialist) is completely unrealistic.

[will]

Sorry you have to deal with the deadwood, Scottish.

[blastttOFF]

As a roll man Scottie is very good, 88th percentile with an insane eFG of 74.4% generating at an absurd 1.39 points per possession.

the frustrating piece is that the raptors only use him in 0.8 possessions as a roll man. As a reference: guys like sengun has (3.4 possessions) with (1.14 PPP & 49th percentile) and mobley (3.4 possessions) with (1.16 PPP & 51st percentile) get theirs.

In nurse's offense, they like to have him sit in spread offense at the corner as a C&S three pointer. Talk about misuse.

[Thaddy]

David Thorpe said it was a huge swing factor for us last summer.

Being a swing skill (which I agree with) isn't the same as "We all expect 38% on the same attempts"

for their careers, Cade is currently 30% on 3s, Mobley is 23%, Jalen Green is 33%, Suggs is 24%, Giddey is 28%.

Expecting 38% from 3 from a sophomore (who wasn't drafted as a 3pt specialist) is completely unrealistic.

Cade and Green are shooting off the dribble. Barnes struggles to shoot from the corner and open threes. Expecting the ROTY to not improve at all isn't the expectation either then.

[OakleyDokely]

Since that terrible Knicks game...

26 GMS, 37.2 MIN, 17.1 PPG, 7.8 REB, 5.1 AST, 1.3 STL, 1.0 BLK, .479 FG, .296 3PT, .783 FT, .559 TS, +3.9

[OakleyDokely]

Being a swing skill (which I agree with) isn't the same as "We all expect 38% on the same attempts"

for their careers, Cade is currently 30% on 3s, Mobley is 23%, Jalen Green is 33%, Suggs is 24%, Giddey is 28%.

Expecting 38% from 3 from a sophomore (who wasn't drafted as a 3pt specialist) is completely unrealistic.

Cade and Green are shooting off the dribble. Barnes struggles to shoot from the corner and open threes. Expecting the ROTY to not improve at all isn't the expectation either then.

He upped his volume of 3s, while still shooting around 30%. That is an improvement.