Mikan vs Ewing

[ShaqAttac]

who better

[Buckets22]

Mikan.

[penbeast0]

AS with all the other Mikan comps we have done recently, Mikan is considerably better relative to era but Ewing's competition is better. How much you discount Mikan for era gives you your answer.

[HeartBreakKid]

Mikan threads come down to the same thing as PenBeast stated. There is no point in this comparison, really. The answers would likely be the same if you replaced Ewing with Jokic, Magic or Bob Dole.

[ShaqAttac]

Mikan threads come down to the same thing as PenBeast stated. There is no point in this comparison, really. The answers would likely be the same if you replaced Ewing with Jokic, Magic or Bob Dole.

what bout russ

[prolific passer]

Mikan threads come down to the same thing as PenBeast stated. There is no point in this comparison, really. The answers would likely be the same if you replaced Ewing with Jokic, Magic or Bob Dole.

Watch on YouTube

[penbeast0]

Mikan threads come down to the same thing as PenBeast stated. There is no point in this comparison, really. The answers would likely be the same if you replaced Ewing with Jokic, Magic or Bob Dole.

what bout russ

Not completely no point, just if we do more, let's focus on the discount for 50s dominance. Russell is probably more dominant both through his defensive impact and his playoff record depending on how much of Mikan's impact you think comes through his scoring.

[ShaqAttac]

Mikan threads come down to the same thing as PenBeast stated. There is no point in this comparison, really. The answers would likely be the same if you replaced Ewing with Jokic, Magic or Bob Dole.

what bout russ

Not completely no point, just if we do more, let's focus on the discount for 50s dominance. Russell is probably more dominant both through his defensive impact and his playoff record depending on how much of Mikan's impact you think comes through his scoring.

would russ vs mikan be a debate without discountin the 50's?

[penbeast0]

what bout russ

Not completely no point, just if we do more, let's focus on the discount for 50s dominance. Russell is probably more dominant both through his defensive impact and his playoff record depending on how much of Mikan's impact you think comes through his scoring.

would russ vs mikan be a debate without discountin the 50's?

Yes, I think Russell's defensive impact (which is probably more than half of Mikan's as well) is so strong that I favor him anyway despite his weak offense. I'd have to see more numbers on Mikan's defensive impact but assuming it's Wilt level, I'd still favor Russell as I think Wilt may be the superior offensive player to Mikan and I think Russell's overall impact was stronger than Wilt's.

[ShaqAttac]

Not completely no point, just if we do more, let's focus on the discount for 50s dominance. Russell is probably more dominant both through his defensive impact and his playoff record depending on how much of Mikan's impact you think comes through his scoring.

would russ vs mikan be a debate without discountin the 50's?

Yes, I think Russell's defensive impact (which is probably more than half of Mikan's as well) is so strong that I favor him anyway despite his weak offense. I'd have to see more numbers on Mikan's defensive impact but assuming it's Wilt level, I'd still favor Russell as I think Wilt may be the superior offensive player to Mikan and I think Russell's overall impact was stronger than Wilt's.

okay i make thread then.

idk bout wilt vs bill except that bill got crazy wowy apparently

[penbeast0]

would russ vs mikan be a debate without discountin the 50's?

Yes, I think Russell's defensive impact (which is probably more than half of Mikan's as well) is so strong that I favor him anyway despite his weak offense. I'd have to see more numbers on Mikan's defensive impact but assuming it's Wilt level, I'd still favor Russell as I think Wilt may be the superior offensive player to Mikan and I think Russell's overall impact was stronger than Wilt's.

okay i make thread then.

idk bout wilt vs bill except that bill got crazy wowy apparently

Even then it's hard to judge because Russell was very healthy and didn't miss many game except in his rookie year combined with playing 40 minutes a game. Basically they only pulled him for short rests and garbage time.

[ShaqAttac]

Yes, I think Russell's defensive impact (which is probably more than half of Mikan's as well) is so strong that I favor him anyway despite his weak offense. I'd have to see more numbers on Mikan's defensive impact but assuming it's Wilt level, I'd still favor Russell as I think Wilt may be the superior offensive player to Mikan and I think Russell's overall impact was stronger than Wilt's.

okay i make thread then.

idk bout wilt vs bill except that bill got crazy wowy apparently

Even then it's hard to judge because Russell was very healthy and didn't miss many game except in his rookie year combined with playing 40 minutes a game. Basically they only pulled him for short rests and garbage time.

arent people using the yr after russy retired? they won 35 without right

[Jaivl]

okay i make thread then.

idk bout wilt vs bill except that bill got crazy wowy apparently

Even then it's hard to judge because Russell was very healthy and didn't miss many game except in his rookie year combined with playing 40 minutes a game. Basically they only pulled him for short rests and garbage time.

arent people using the yr after russy retired? they won 35 without right

Mostly, yes. We are kinda forced to extrapolate from there.

Still, the baseline is not the 60 win, +7 and +8 SRS juggernouts of the mid 60s, the Celts were on a slow but steady decline by 1969 -- +5ish SRS, 48 wins on the RS, +5ish SRS vs New York and Lakers (+15 SRS outlier vs Philly). Plus, decrepit Sam Jones is still a quality player, Bailey Howell is getting older... So we arrive at an obviously faulty but probably somewhat accurate* "looks like a 12-win or +4 SRS caliber guy at 35, so in his late 20s he might be worth X".

Also, despite what Ben Taylor might say, the SRS -> %CORP conversion is absolutely not the same through eras... if not adjusting for era, top tier players might very well be inherently more valuable than their modern counterparts.

Spoiler:

* about as accurate as +/- individual value estimates can be, which is... not that much? an informed hunch somewhat based on +/- data

[ShaqAttac]

Even then it's hard to judge because Russell was very healthy and didn't miss many game except in his rookie year combined with playing 40 minutes a game. Basically they only pulled him for short rests and garbage time.

arent people using the yr after russy retired? they won 35 without right

Mostly, yes. We are kinda forced to extrapolate from there.

Still, the baseline is not the 60 win, +7 and +8 SRS juggernouts of the mid 60s, the Celts were on a slow but steady decline by 1969 -- +5ish SRS, 48 wins on the RS, +5ish SRS vs New York and Lakers (+15 SRS outlier vs Philly). Plus, decrepit Sam Jones is still a quality player, Bailey Howell is getting older... So we arrive at an obviously faulty but probably somewhat accurate "looks like a 12-win or +4 SRS caliber guy at 35, so in his late 20s he might be worth X".

Also, despite what Ben Taylor might say, the SRS -> %CORP conversion is absolutely not the same through eras... if not adjusting for era, top tier players might very well be inherently more valuable than their modern counterparts.

iirc the arg is that coz of era that +5 actuallt p crazy for russ. by the blah wowyyr stuff or the wowy stuff

what is %corp tho? i aint seen that before

[prolific passer]

okay i make thread then.

idk bout wilt vs bill except that bill got crazy wowy apparently

Even then it's hard to judge because Russell was very healthy and didn't miss many game except in his rookie year combined with playing 40 minutes a game. Basically they only pulled him for short rests and garbage time.

arent people using the yr after russy retired? they won 35 without right

Then they drafted 6'9" Dave Cowens who people said was too short to play center during that time even though you had 6'7" Unseld?

[penbeast0]

Yeah but Unseld was about 3' thick, Cowens was more normally built.

[dooki667]

Can anyone point me towards what limited video for mikan we have or some well done analysis of his game. I know very very little and would like to learn.

[wojoaderge]

Can anyone point me towards what limited video for mikan we have or some well done analysis of his game. I know very very little and would like to learn.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2263585&start=20
scroll down

[dooki667]

Can anyone point me towards what limited video for mikan we have or some well done analysis of his game. I know very very little and would like to learn.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2263585&start=20
scroll down

Srry for the delay. Ty buddy appreciative it.