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eyeatoma wrote:SUPERVILLAIN wrote:?s=46&t=PN0XZhhD6e3eaiyQ5PCMmA
?s=46&t=PN0XZhhD6e3eaiyQ5PCMmA
But I thought Philly and it's fans were a toxic wasteland that destroyed Ben Simmons?
eyeatoma wrote:Nuntius wrote:eyeatoma wrote:
I'm saying that him claiming mental health issues as the reason for why he had to leave Philly was a load of BS, and was used as leverage to get out of his contract/be traded. Regardless of if he had it or not, using it after the fact is incredibly disingenuous. If it was something that was truly a problem, he should have said it from the get go. He would have avoided all this drama, and the Sixers would have obliged him without any of the bad blood that remained.
You don't know whether he said it from the get go or not, though. You are merely assuming that he didn't because that's how you chose to justify Philly's contact throughout all this.
There are two things we know for sure here:
1) Simmons had been seeing an NBAPA-approved mental health specialist ever since the summer.
2) The public learned about Simmons' mental health issues after the fact.
No one knows what really happened in the time period between Simmons seeking out mental health help and the public becoming aware of his mental health issues. No one knows what Simmons and the Sixers talked about in private before this saga begun.
Yes, I do, atleast that is what was reported. That's all we can assume. You can't just assume he did claim it before hand either.
eyeatoma wrote:Simmons was seeing a therapist before the summer dude. He has been seeing one for a couple of years, to help him get over his issues with shooting jumpers. Him seeing one, isn't anything new or profound. Just because he is seeing one, doesn't mean he gets a free pass and can quit the team lol. As others have said, plenty of people have mental health needs, deal with it, and go on with their jobs/careers.
Here's a link showing that he was seeing one even when Brett Brown was around.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/07/24/ben-simmons-agreed-to-see-sports-psychologist-about-3-point-shooting/
eyeatoma wrote:Nuntius wrote:eyeatoma wrote:
Why do you think Philly lost the arbitration? Nothing was revealed from it, and both parties signed an NDA. We had a poll on realgm asking how much people thought he ended up getting.
When this whole saga was unfolding, Chinook wrote a number of detailed posts outlining that the way that the Sixers' fines were structured was in violation of the CBA. That's why they lost the arbitration. When you violate the CBA (which would be analogous to a corporation violating labor laws) then, yeah, you're not going to win an arbitration.
Simmons getting his money does not mean they lost. It said he received a portion of the 20 million. We don't know how much. If he got it all back, THEN, they lost. Claiming they lost, when you don't know how much isn't really fair. He might have only received 10% of that, does that mean they lost?
eyeatoma wrote:SUPERVILLAIN wrote:?s=46&t=PN0XZhhD6e3eaiyQ5PCMmA
?s=46&t=PN0XZhhD6e3eaiyQ5PCMmA
But I thought Philly and it's fans were a toxic wasteland that destroyed Ben Simmons?
Nuntius wrote:eyeatoma wrote:Nuntius wrote:
When this whole saga was unfolding, Chinook wrote a number of detailed posts outlining that the way that the Sixers' fines were structured was in violation of the CBA. That's why they lost the arbitration. When you violate the CBA (which would be analogous to a corporation violating labor laws) then, yeah, you're not going to win an arbitration.
Simmons getting his money does not mean they lost. It said he received a portion of the 20 million. We don't know how much. If he got it all back, THEN, they lost. Claiming they lost, when you don't know how much isn't really fair. He might have only received 10% of that, does that mean they lost?
If what Philly did was legal per the CBA then Simmons wouldn't have received anything. The fact that Philly had to settle and pay Simmons a portion of his withheld salary means that at least some of the fines they issued were in violation of the CBA.
Nuntius wrote:eyeatoma wrote:Nuntius wrote:
You don't know whether he said it from the get go or not, though. You are merely assuming that he didn't because that's how you chose to justify Philly's contact throughout all this.
There are two things we know for sure here:
1) Simmons had been seeing an NBAPA-approved mental health specialist ever since the summer.
2) The public learned about Simmons' mental health issues after the fact.
No one knows what really happened in the time period between Simmons seeking out mental health help and the public becoming aware of his mental health issues. No one knows what Simmons and the Sixers talked about in private before this saga begun.
Yes, I do, atleast that is what was reported. That's all we can assume. You can't just assume he did claim it before hand either.
You are the one making the assumption that Simmons didn't communicate his mental health issues to the Sixers beforehand. I am making no assumption whatsoever. What I'm saying is that no one knows whether he did or didn't and therefore we shouldn't make assumptions about it.eyeatoma wrote:Simmons was seeing a therapist before the summer dude. He has been seeing one for a couple of years, to help him get over his issues with shooting jumpers. Him seeing one, isn't anything new or profound. Just because he is seeing one, doesn't mean he gets a free pass and can quit the team lol. As others have said, plenty of people have mental health needs, deal with it, and go on with their jobs/careers.
Here's a link showing that he was seeing one even when Brett Brown was around.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/07/24/ben-simmons-agreed-to-see-sports-psychologist-about-3-point-shooting/
There is a damn big difference between seeing a sports psychologist to address your performance issues and seeing a mental health professional to deal with being shell-shocked by the drama in your family. Simmons cratered the very moment his sister came out and accused his half-brother of molesting him. That's when it all started going downwards for him and his relationship with Philly. Pretending that the sports psychologist was for his jumper and not his family issues is disingenuous, imo.
Nuntius wrote:eyeatoma wrote:Nuntius wrote:
You don't know whether he said it from the get go or not, though. You are merely assuming that he didn't because that's how you chose to justify Philly's contact throughout all this.
There are two things we know for sure here:
1) Simmons had been seeing an NBAPA-approved mental health specialist ever since the summer.
2) The public learned about Simmons' mental health issues after the fact.
No one knows what really happened in the time period between Simmons seeking out mental health help and the public becoming aware of his mental health issues. No one knows what Simmons and the Sixers talked about in private before this saga begun.
Yes, I do, atleast that is what was reported. That's all we can assume. You can't just assume he did claim it before hand either.
You are the one making the assumption that Simmons didn't communicate his mental health issues to the Sixers beforehand. I am making no assumption whatsoever. What I'm saying is that no one knows whether he did or didn't and therefore we shouldn't make assumptions about it.eyeatoma wrote:Simmons was seeing a therapist before the summer dude. He has been seeing one for a couple of years, to help him get over his issues with shooting jumpers. Him seeing one, isn't anything new or profound. Just because he is seeing one, doesn't mean he gets a free pass and can quit the team lol. As others have said, plenty of people have mental health needs, deal with it, and go on with their jobs/careers.
Here's a link showing that he was seeing one even when Brett Brown was around.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/07/24/ben-simmons-agreed-to-see-sports-psychologist-about-3-point-shooting/
There is a damn big difference between seeing a sports psychologist to address your performance issues and seeing a mental health professional to deal with being shell-shocked by the drama in your family. Simmons cratered the very moment his sister came out and accused his half-brother of molesting him. That's when it all started going downwards for him and his relationship with Philly. Pretending that the sports psychologist was for his jumper and not his family issues is disingenuous, imo.
eyeatoma wrote:Sure, but by no means did they lose.
eyeatoma wrote:Okay, so you're saying he was seeing a shrink because of family problems. What does that have to do with Philly. If he wasn't seeing the shrink for the issues with the team, all the more reason for why the mental health issues should have been used as an excuse.
Either way, I feel like we're going in circles. We're not going to agree on this and that's fine. Plenty of people feel that Simmons manipulated the situation, and set back tremendous progress done in this field specifically in sports, with one big temper tantrum.
eyeatoma wrote:At not point did I claim him seeing a therapist before was for issues other than fixing his jumper. We never got into specifics in previous discussion. I was stating, that his mental health issues was something that's been going on for years, and the team was very much aware of it.
The team also gave him time off in the middle of the season when the issues with his family arised, and they labeled it as an injury to respect Ben's privacy. They were very accommodating.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Nuntius wrote:I'm going to answer to all three posts at once since we've already taken up too much space in this thread for a topic that is only tangentially-related to the topic in the OP:eyeatoma wrote:Sure, but by no means did they lose.
You are free to call it what you want but the fact is that their fines were in violation of the CBA (partly, at least). If what they did was 100% legal under the CBA then they wouldn't have had to settle.eyeatoma wrote:Okay, so you're saying he was seeing a shrink because of family problems. What does that have to do with Philly. If he wasn't seeing the shrink for the issues with the team, all the more reason for why the mental health issues should have been used as an excuse.
Either way, I feel like we're going in circles. We're not going to agree on this and that's fine. Plenty of people feel that Simmons manipulated the situation, and set back tremendous progress done in this field specifically in sports, with one big temper tantrum.eyeatoma wrote:At not point did I claim him seeing a therapist before was for issues other than fixing his jumper. We never got into specifics in previous discussion. I was stating, that his mental health issues was something that's been going on for years, and the team was very much aware of it.
The team also gave him time off in the middle of the season when the issues with his family arised, and they labeled it as an injury to respect Ben's privacy. They were very accommodating.
Yep, we're definitely going in circles here. My position on this whole saga is the following:
Ben Simmons was clearly not fit to play last year. He wasn't fit mentally and he wasn't fit physically. He still is a shell of his former shelf today which, in my opinion, is only further proof that he was not fit to play last year. If it was simply about not playing with Philly he would have returned to his old self by now. The accusation that he was faking mental health issues and/or injuries was bull and it set back the discourse around mental health issues in the sports world. And that is a **** shame.
That's it. You are free to disagree and have another position. We can always agree to disagree.
theforumblue wrote:First thought: He had a mural?