GT: Nets @ Knicks || Monday 2/13/23 || 7:30 PM

[Netaman]

Read on Twitter

i get that everyone hates simmons because he's a mopey loser, but he's the best answer for this particular problem. SVG called it out the first day after the trade and he's right.

if he's as much of a mopey loser as he's been so far the experiment will end in a couple weeks but why not give it a try?

[Tha King]

I think Simmons/Bridges/Johnson/DFS/Claxton might be worth a shot. Spencer has been terrible at moving the ball.

i think if you just take dinwiddie off the ball exclusively it solves a lot of issues. he's the best scorer on the team but this team canT win playing with him as the #1 option jacking up 20 shots like he did today.

i think i start simmons more bc of the way claxton has been abandoned and the amount of iso stuff we saw today, they need someone pass first in there. and he can still add defense.

dfs as an energy guy off the bench is a better fit for this roster makeup. let him and royce play around cam thomas (or seth).

simmons started 33 games this year and is averaging 6 assists in 26 minutes. they need to get him shooting more but i dont know how that happens 12 mpg.

I don't know if he's the best scorer. Dinwiddie has been inefficient with the exception of his run playing next to Luka.

imo there's no player on the team that should get scoring priority over another. The only way a functional/good offense can work with this group is through player and ball movement and no predictability. similar to how things started against the Sixers.

Even if efficient, high usage and high volume scoring from Dinwiddie was possible - what is the point? That does nothing for the development of what should be some of a core group on this team and you don't get an idea of what you have and can build around.

I'd go with this group a lot more:

Simmons
Cam
Bridges
CJ
Claxton

You aren't getting off that Simmons max playing him 10 minutes off the bench.

Don't care if he doesn't attempt a single FG as those attempts going to Cam, Bridges, CJ, and Claxton is far better than 20+ FGA from Dinwiddie.

[Decipher]

I checked my junk folder but still can't find the email instructing us to tank

I will give JV the benefit of the doubt & say that he's thrown 2 games while also discovering what will never, ever work

However, if we come out with the same rotations next game ....

[Netaman]

one other thought about simmons - he's always been pass first and now he's basically pass only.

why put him on a second unit with worse players to pass to and/or create space for?

that outlet he threw to oneale got intercepted because it's oneale, not bridges or cam j.

if this group has a shot at figuring anything out in a short period of time it's going to be running things through simmons or cam, with bridges and dinwiddie as co-pilots and iso guys end of game. they need to establish a focal point then build a rotation around that.

[JoseRizal]

I think Simmons/Bridges/Johnson/DFS/Claxton might be worth a shot. Spencer has been terrible at moving the ball.

i think if you just take dinwiddie off the ball exclusively it solves a lot of issues. he's the best scorer on the team but this team canT win playing with him as the #1 option jacking up 20 shots like he did today.

i think i start simmons more bc of the way claxton has been abandoned and the amount of iso stuff we saw today, they need someone pass first in there. and he can still add defense.

dfs as an energy guy off the bench is a better fit for this roster makeup. let him and royce play around cam thomas (or seth).

simmons started 33 games this year and is averaging 6 assists in 26 minutes. they need to get him shooting more but i dont know how that happens 12 mpg.

I don't know if he's the best scorer. Dinwiddie has been inefficient with the exception of his run playing next to Luka.

imo there's no player on the team that should get scoring priority over another. The only way a functional/good offense can work with this group is through player and ball movement and no predictability. similar to how things started against the Sixers.

Even if efficient, high usage and high volume scoring from Dinwiddie was possible - what is the point? That does nothing for the development of what should be some of a core group on this team and you don't get an idea of what you have and can build around.

I'd go with this group a lot more:

Simmons
Cam
Bridges
CJ
Claxton

You aren't getting off that Simmons max playing him 10 minutes off the bench.

Don't care if he doesn't attempt a single FG as those attempts going to Cam, Bridges, CJ, and Claxton is far better than 20+ FGA from Dinwiddie.

That starting 5 is exactly what I have in mind. I just hope JV won't be too stubborn to explore it.

Simmons is still the only legitimate facilitator in this team.
Cam is still the best scorer this team has. I'll take his chucking over Spencer any day.
Mikal & CJ works well together and both can hit the 3 and defend
Clax - no justification needed.

There's no harm in trying this lineup. I'm just sick and tired of DInwiddie's iso ball...

[Netaman]

I'd go with this group a lot more:

Simmons
Cam
Bridges
CJ
Claxton

You aren't getting off that Simmons max playing him 10 minutes off the bench.

Don't care if he doesn't attempt a single FG as those attempts going to Cam, Bridges, CJ, and Claxton is far better than 20+ FGA from Dinwiddie.

That starting 5 is exactly what I have in mind. I just hope JV won't be too stubborn to explore it.

Simmons is still the only legitimate facilitator in this team.
Cam is still the best scorer this team has. I'll take his chucking over Spencer any day.
Mikal & CJ works well together and both can hit the 3 and defend
Clax - no justification needed.

There's no harm in trying this lineup. I'm just sick and tired of DInwiddie's iso ball...

i think you still start dinwiddie but function with that as the core group.

simmons
dinwiddie
cj
bridges
claxton

cam as 6th man and first guard off bench at least until curry gets back.

dfs/oneale energy guys who can d up.

close out with the guys playing the best.

[Papi_swav]

i think if you just take dinwiddie off the ball exclusively it solves a lot of issues. he's the best scorer on the team but this team canT win playing with him as the #1 option jacking up 20 shots like he did today.

i think i start simmons more bc of the way claxton has been abandoned and the amount of iso stuff we saw today, they need someone pass first in there. and he can still add defense.

dfs as an energy guy off the bench is a better fit for this roster makeup. let him and royce play around cam thomas (or seth).

simmons started 33 games this year and is averaging 6 assists in 26 minutes. they need to get him shooting more but i dont know how that happens 12 mpg.

I don't know if he's the best scorer. Dinwiddie has been inefficient with the exception of his run playing next to Luka.

imo there's no player on the team that should get scoring priority over another. The only way a functional/good offense can work with this group is through player and ball movement and no predictability. similar to how things started against the Sixers.

Even if efficient, high usage and high volume scoring from Dinwiddie was possible - what is the point? That does nothing for the development of what should be some of a core group on this team and you don't get an idea of what you have and can build around.

I'd go with this group a lot more:

Simmons
Cam
Bridges
CJ
Claxton

You aren't getting off that Simmons max playing him 10 minutes off the bench.

Don't care if he doesn't attempt a single FG as those attempts going to Cam, Bridges, CJ, and Claxton is far better than 20+ FGA from Dinwiddie.

That starting 5 is exactly what I have in mind. I just hope JV won't be too stubborn to explore it.

Simmons is still the only legitimate facilitator in this team.
Cam is still the best scorer this team has. I'll take his chucking over Spencer any day.
Mikal & CJ works well together and both can hit the 3 and defend
Clax - no justification needed.

There's no harm in trying this lineup. I'm just sick and tired of DInwiddie's iso ball...

yea this is the lineup I had in mind too. Simmons can do all the passing and screening he wants and Cam just has to worry abut scoring. He has a good knack of penetrating and getting into the paint so he can make some kickout 3s to CJ and Bridges or pass it off to Clax in the lane when defenders collapse on him. this is the part of his game he has to improve on but he will if given the minutes. We can also run some screens on CJ and Bridges with Clax and Simmons to create some shots for them in space. And that lineup should definitely be great on defense despite Cam not being good on that side.

We all love Dinwiddie but he's not best to use as a primary ball handler for 30 plus minutes. He worked well with Luka because he can pick his spots and not be ball dominant all game. I think he'll work well off the bench with the bench unit and against lesser opponents.

[Decipher]

Going from JV's post game comments, there's absolutely zero chance that Simmons returns to the starting lineup anytime soon

More likely to be a dnp IMO

[3pt_chucker]

Another game where JV is lacklustre. Getting Nash flashbacks when people defended him before it became glaringly obvious how awful he was.

That said JV would be a great tank commander and the Nets own their pick this draft...

[CalamityX12]

Recap please?

I could not follow intently

[ChuckS]

I do not know how to put this so it does not appear I am advocating for Dinwiddie. A couple of posters whose judgement I respect somewhat cautioned about him before his first game. And he has not been the most efficient shooter, with career averages of 42/34% and 14 points. What follows is more questioning the attribution of blame for these initial games. I have no problem with suggested experimentation or anything that might ultimately be determined about his use or usefulness.

I expected what started in this thread tonight even before the game. I was confused after his admittedly relatively poor game against the 76ers by criticism of his supposed hero ball. It didn't make sense to me because he had only taken ten shots. I assume it was his attempted heroics at the end of the game which some saw as bad judgement or failures. I saw a beautiful driving layup, a turnover the league admitted should have instead been two foul shots, and a rushed three which, but for seconds, would have tied the game.

Tonight, it could be argued that he did too much. But shouldn't some of the criticism be mitigated by the fact that our expected two future scoring stars shot 25%, with 7 points each, and for the first time this defense kind of sucked. And being the only effective scorer with 28 points should have some redeeming value.

I know a few think Coach is an idiot, but there is a reason that against Philly DFS and Bridges had more minutes than Spencer, and tonight it was not the case. And in these three games he has had the best plus/minus at +23.

With Dallas Dinwiddie shot 46/40% with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio. I just prefer, before "throwing the baby out with the bath water", we see if we can give him some scoring options. I also believe that as a new point guard, on a team with no familiarity with any player, his is the toughest adjustment.

[NetsJets]

We fixed one problem and now we have a new problem on our hands. It’s annoying.

[CalamityX12]

Did Yuta saw the floor tonight at all ? Talk about Vaughn tunnel vision , I hope there was 10 more games till all star break so he could get fired , I saw enough

Gtfo, don't tell me Yuta didn't play????

[Decipher]

We've gone from feel good vibes to tanking vibes in 1.5 games

I understand that JV has to integrate new players but ...

Clax has gone from MIP contender to looking completely lost while playing 20 minutes

Cam has gone from 3 * 40 point games to limited minutes from the bench

Simmons is being played as the 3rd string centre behind Sharpe

Yuta barely playing

Sumner DNP

The offense is a rabble while the defense fell to pieces tonight

All very strange

[JoseRizal]

What I don't understand is why JV is investing too much on a 29yo chucker, as opposed to a 21yo one?

Over the last 3 games, Cam's only averaging 23.6 mins (19 mins the last 2 games) on 12 FGA's, with shooting splits of 33.3/12.5 (8 attempts)/94.1 and averages 13.6/2.7/2.0

However, compare it to when he was getting his minutes. Wizards, Clippers & Suns' 3 game stretch. Cam is averaging 35.3 mins on 25 FGA's, with shooting splits of 56.0/56.0 (25 attempts)/90.0 and averages of 44.6/4.7/3.7

If you compare it to Spencer's first 3 games with the team, he is averaging 34.3 mins on 16 FGA's, with shooting splits of 37.5/23.8 (21 attempts) /87.5 and averages of 20.6/4.7/5.3

Looking at the efficiency, there's no doubt that Cam is better if given equal minutes and attempts.

I have nothing against Spence, but I don't think.he should be the focal point of offense for this team. Since this season is over, with no championship chances, I think it would be wiser to hand over the keys to Cam. At worse, if the FO doesn't trust him enough, it will increase his trade value come off season.

The game vs the Knicks pisses me off not just because we lost, but with the way the shots were distributed.

Spence led the team in FGA's with freakin' 21! The next closest is CJ with 10, followed by the trio of Mikal, Clax & Cam with 8. This is such a red flag. With Bridges as the centerpiece of the KD trade, you would expect at least 12-15 attempts at minimum. What are we trying to achieve here? It's not that Spencer will be part of the team's future plans?

I'm confused tbh...

[Minnamaker]

We've gone from feel good vibes to tanking vibes in 1.5 games

I understand that JV has to integrate new players but ...

Clax has gone from MIP contender to looking completely lost while playing 20 minutes

Cam has gone from 3 * 40 point games to limited minutes from the bench

Simmons is being played as the 3rd string centre behind Sharpe

Yuta barely playing

Sumner DNP

The offense is a rabble while the defense fell to pieces tonight

All very strange

I agree. That game was really tough. I suppose we have to wait 5 - 10 games to see what this team is about, but I would not get my hopes up too high. I still don't get the hate on JV. While I don't understand some desicions he made, other than Nash he actually really is in a tough position. When have you ever seen a team gutted at the trade deadline and then go for a win streak? I don't think that happens. Our starting lineup went from KY, Oneale, KD, Simmons, Claxton to Dinwiddie, CamJ, Bridges, DFSk, Claxton. Only 1 player remained in the starting lineup. And I think it was the right choice, even though we probably should mix it up going forward a little. Simmons though could only be played with KD and KI. I think he rightfully went to the bench. He should only get big minutes if he is actually healthy.

Overall it seems like every player has to do a little bit to much on offense. They are all out of their comfort zone. It's going to be tough the rest of the year. Maybe Bridges is a star in the making, maybe not. It is certainly easier to score with CP3 and Ayton on the team, than with Claxton and Dinwiddie. the breakout vibes he had might not transfer to the Nets. Guess we have to be patient. I also understand the calls for playing CamT more, but I don't care either way. I don't think he has the instincts and bball IQ to be THE guy, I think his ceiling is Lance Stevenson. But in a rebuilding season where scoring comes hard, I would take the chance to see if I'm wrong.

I am really dissappointed of our defense though. After the Philly game I really tought we could be a top 3 defensive team in the league, but we looked BAD today. Slow rotations, bad contests... like everything we did right last game, we did wrong this game. Harris.. wow. He was never a good defender, but his game ... holy ****.

one last thought: JV keeps saying he wants the team to shoot 50 3s, but he has to draw up plays for that. What kind of 3s does he want us to take? contested isolation 3s off the dribble? That's not going to work. There has to be more offball screens and set plays to get shooters open. We don't have Luca or Giannis who can always draw the attention of multiple defenders in isolation or pick and rolls to lure away the defense from corner shooters. When you don't have players who can create offense for the team by themselves (and no, CamT is not one of them. He creates for himself, not for the team), then you have to get open by offball screens and player+ball movement. Similar to the Warrios and Spurs. Maybe that's to much to implement in mid season though, I don't know.

[Rastas]

where did the ball movement from early in the Sixers game go?

On the bench where JV put it.

[NetsWorld]

I hate to say it but it’s going to be a painful rebuild. To figure out the rotations is going to be hard for Vaughn. It’s going to be a long two months ahead and a long off season. And there are probably more surprise ahead for this team, in a not so good way. But we shall see what unfolds this Summer.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

i get that everyone hates simmons because he's a mopey loser, but he's the best answer for this particular problem. SVG called it out the first day after the trade and he's right.

if he's as much of a mopey loser as he's been so far the experiment will end in a couple weeks but why not give it a try?

Well he needs to tell Dinwiddie what his role is because clearly there's a disconnect.

Imo Spencer isn't a table setting guard.

Oh well. We knew this wasn't going to be easy. I think we have good players, but Vaughn needs to establish roles and change up the offense so we're playing team basketball and not this crap I've watched the last two games.

[MrDollarBills]

Did Yuta saw the floor tonight at all ? Talk about Vaughn tunnel vision , I hope there was 10 more games till all star break so he could get fired , I saw enough

Gtfo, don't tell me Yuta didn't play????

Yep. Yuta's mins got cut, Ben was riding a stationary bike.

This isn't good. The 4th quarter of the Sixers game and the 2nd half of the Knicks game have been terrible.

Cam, Yuta, and Ben need to play. We need scoring and facilitating. Yuta is an elite shooter, he should be subbing in at PF.

Dinwiddie shouldn't be shooting 20+ shots.

Also, Igor needs to retool the offense so that we're using more off ball screens and back door action to free up Bridges and Johnson.

The Nets need to play team basketball. Not ISO Spencer. Cam needs to work on his shot selection too, that's a real issue that folks want to ignore but I can't. It's bad.

I'm going to give JV and staff some grace here, but after ASB if he hasn't figured it out, then I'm out on him. I'm not wasting my time on defending stupid decision making: KD and Kyrie aren't here anymore. We have to change how we play offensively to maximize this roster's skills. Simmons shouldn't be on a goddamn bike when we need someone to push the ball and hit open players, which Dinwiddie sucks at