GT: Nets @ Knicks || Monday 2/13/23 || 7:30 PM

[Rastas]

Pretty sure Marks and Tsai are growing frustrated watching JV sink Ben's trade value .....
They will know its personal between those two , but it's costing the Nets wins and a tonne of trade value .....
If JV wants to go back to being an assistant then I recommend he continues giving Ben just a few minutes paired with the lesser players at C only behind Sharpe .

By the way I actually luv that Sharpe is actually getting some consistent developing mins , just wish Yuta and Sumner could also get a few more , maybe they are too close to Ben or something for JV to even consider.

[NetsWorld]

Did Yuta saw the floor tonight at all ? Talk about Vaughn tunnel vision , I hope there was 10 more games till all star break so he could get fired , I saw enough

Gtfo, don't tell me Yuta didn't play????

Yep. Yuta's mins got cut, Ben was riding a stationary bike.

This isn't good. The 4th quarter of the Sixers game and the 2nd half of the Knicks game have been terrible.

Cam, Yuta, and Ben need to play. We need scoring and facilitating. Yuta is an elite shooter, he should be subbing in at PF.

Dinwiddie shouldn't be shooting 20+ shots.

Also, Igor needs to retool the offense so that we're using more off ball screens and back door action to free up Bridges and Johnson.

The Nets need to play team basketball. Not ISO Spencer. Cam needs to work on his shot selection too, that's a real issue that folks want to ignore but I can't. It's bad.

I'm going to give JV and staff some grace here, but after ASB if he hasn't figured it out, then I'm out on him. I'm not wasting my time on defending stupid decision making: KD and Kyrie aren't here anymore. We have to change how we play offensively to maximize this roster's skills. Simmons shouldn't be on a goddamn bike when we need someone to push the ball and hit open players, which Dinwiddie sucks at

Spencer needs to move the ball more, complain less, Yuta and Sumner need more minutes; this team can also use Curry. The team we had with Thomas, Sumner, Yuta, Claxton was a much better team to watch than what I have seen this past two games. Dinwiddie plays hero ball and he sucks at it, miserably. This trade left us with to many undefined roles; Claxton, Sumner, Yuta, Cam kept it competitive because of ball movement and played to their strengths.

[Stone]

Not going to try to sugarcoat it, the Knicks game left a LOT to be desired.

However, since the trades. We beat the Bulls, went toe to toe with the 76ers and played solid. Then the Knicks who felt a strong sense of urgency to win pulled out every stop. They dotted the I's and crossed the T's and hit low percentage shots and pulled away with it.

So last nights game was by no means some kind of red flag. It is another adjustment period that we have to work through.

[Stanford]

You guys should try Ben at the 5 surrounded by shooters.

And maybe try being a little nicer to him too.

Just a thought.

[Stone]

Definitely agree, Spencer has to stop complaining after every call. That is a big put off and I doubt it will change he has been doing since his has last go round with us. That tech was so unnecessary. The smart players know how to work the refs by saying something like "you owe me for that one'.

[ChuckS]

What I don't understand is why JV is investing too much on a 29yo chucker, as opposed to a 21yo one?

Over the last 3 games, Cam's only averaging 23.6 mins (19 mins the last 2 games) on 12 FGA's, with shooting splits of 33.3/12.5 (8 attempts)/94.1 and averages 13.6/2.7/2.0

However, compare it to when he was getting his minutes. Wizards, Clippers & Suns' 3 game stretch. Cam is averaging 35.3 mins on 25 FGA's, with shooting splits of 56.0/56.0 (25 attempts)/90.0 and averages of 44.6/4.7/3.7

If you compare it to Spencer's first 3 games with the team, he is averaging 34.3 mins on 16 FGA's, with shooting splits of 37.5/23.8 (21 attempts) /87.5 and averages of 20.6/4.7/5.3

Looking at the efficiency, there's no doubt that Cam is better if given equal minutes and attempts.

I have nothing against Spence, but I don't think.he should be the focal point of offense for this team. Since this season is over, with no championship chances, I think it would be wiser to hand over the keys to Cam. At worse, if the FO doesn't trust him enough, it will increase his trade value come off season.

The game vs the Knicks pisses me off not just because we lost, but with the way the shots were distributed.

Spence led the team in FGA's with freakin' 21! The next closest is CJ with 10, followed by the trio of Mikal, Clax & Cam with 8. This is such a red flag. With Bridges as the centerpiece of the KD trade, you would expect at least 12-15 attempts at minimum. What are we trying to achieve here? It's not that Spencer will be part of the team's future plans?

I'm confused tbh...

I'm in general agreement with your premise that Cam might help solve a team scoring problem. His shooting has been efficient in his forty games this year, and three straight forty point games speak loudly. But even Luka is only averaging 33, so who knows where CT will land when he gets more minutes. Think of Yuta's early three point shooting before he leveled off. But he got those minutes by being awesome. I'm convinced that JV determines playing time by what he sees happening in the present. I suspect Cam will get more minutes as he earns them.

On the other hand I thought it was somewhat disingenuous to compare those spectacular three games with Spencer's first three here. Would you believe that none of the four newcomers have averaged over 39% since they arrived and they are all within a percentage point? I, personally, believe all are better than Cam, and their averages will soon normalize. Once again, Dinwiddie averaged 45.5/40.5% and 17.7 points in the 53 games before his arrival.

There seems to be the implication that our poor shooting since the trade is Dinwiddie's fault. In any motion offense relatively few points are the result of assists by the point guard, and he is averaging the same 5.3 as Irving and Durant, and only nominally less than Ben's 6.1. It's only my opinion, but I think he is hardly a black hole or iso freak. He is averaging 16 attempts per game, which will probably go down after we collectively start shooting better, because he averaged 13.1 before the trade. Kyrie and Kevin averaged 39.3 so the shots are there. As an aside, I suspect some of our shooting problem, since we traded our shooters, has been compounded by the absence of Curry, and Nic seems different since he was out briefly.

[Riconet]

There were a number of issues with the Nets' approach in the 2nd half last night, but the lack of minutes for Simmons IMHO wasn't one of them.

Simmons was terrible in the 1st half. He continues to give off the vibe of someone who doesn't want to be there.
If he weren't under contract, I don't think he'd be in the NBA at this point.

I also 100% disagree that Simmons should be running the offense. He's still good at the quick hit-ahead pass after he gets a defensive rebound, but he is no longer a playmaker. When he brings it up, he takes 2 dribbles past halfcourt and then passes it to someone on the arc. Then he disappears from the offense.

Otherwise, I thought Dinwiddie took too many shots in the 2nd half. Unfortunately, he's the only guy the Nets have left who can run an offense, and I think the burden may be too much for him. Maybe they can pick up a decent PG in the buyout market.

I also thought the defensive scheme against Brunson was flawed. The Nets have about a million great defenders now, but Harris isn't one of them, and he should never end up isolated on Brunson. And when Harris was out, which was most of the game, JV needed to come up with something better for Brunson, who was by far the Knicks' best player last night.

[Netaman]

Dinwiddie has played well other than the 2nd half yesterday. He is stepping into a vacuum created by having so many non-ball handlers around him - a vacuum that needs to be filled by putting a playmaker on the floor next to him.

The issue for JV is that he's now got a bunch of grinders who he wants to play because he likes that mentality way more than mopey ben but there's only so much they can do. Randle lit up DFS early despite really good d. Brunson lit up all game despite being guarded by bigger guys and doubled all game.

JV admits that Simmons is a weird fit off the bench. just give the guy 10 starts and see what happens. his p36 average this year is about 11-9-9 on 57% shooting, if he can hit anywhere close to that with this group you can put him on the bench in the 4th and then run iso through either cam t, dinwiddie, or bridges and hope they come through to win games. or if you're defending a lead put in the all defense lineup. play him to start the game and to start the 4th Q before transitioning to the real close out lineup.

but if you start these games with dinwiddie playing hero ball they are going to end like yesterday's did.

[TheNetsFan]

You guys should try Ben at the 5 surrounded by shooters.

And maybe try being a little nicer to him too.

Just a thought.

They have tried that. I actually want Vaughn to experiment going the other way for a few games. Force him into being the primary ball handler by having no ball dominant players out there with him. It could be a disaster or it could finally get him back into a rhythm. The dribble the ball up, hand it off to Dinwiddie or Cam then set some screens or stand in the corner thing is clearly not working. Put him out there with Claxton, Bridges, & 2 of DFS/Johnson/Harris to see if he can regain some confidence as a creator.

[NetsJets]

You guys should try Ben at the 5 surrounded by shooters.

And maybe try being a little nicer to him too.

Just a thought.

Been there done that.

[CalamityX12]

Did Yuta saw the floor tonight at all ? Talk about Vaughn tunnel vision , I hope there was 10 more games till all star break so he could get fired , I saw enough

Gtfo, don't tell me Yuta didn't play????

Yep. Yuta's mins got cut, Ben was riding a stationary bike.

This isn't good. The 4th quarter of the Sixers game and the 2nd half of the Knicks game have been terrible.

Cam, Yuta, and Ben need to play. We need scoring and facilitating. Yuta is an elite shooter, he should be subbing in at PF.

Dinwiddie shouldn't be shooting 20+ shots.

Also, Igor needs to retool the offense so that we're using more off ball screens and back door action to free up Bridges and Johnson.

The Nets need to play team basketball. Not ISO Spencer. Cam needs to work on his shot selection too, that's a real issue that folks want to ignore but I can't. It's bad.

I'm going to give JV and staff some grace here, but after ASB if he hasn't figured it out, then I'm out on him. I'm not wasting my time on defending stupid decision making: KD and Kyrie aren't here anymore. We have to change how we play offensively to maximize this roster's skills. Simmons shouldn't be on a goddamn bike when we need someone to push the ball and hit open players, which Dinwiddie sucks at

Should be no excuse not to be playing Yuta outside of health reasons... the guy brings what we need on the court! ten fold... such bs....

Don't understand how you water down Cam's minutes.... I wasn't one to glorify Cam Thomas either but he, for his own development, should be getting minutes and you live with the trial and error... keep these guys motivated to play and not sit glued to the bench in favor of the new guys....

what message is that?

Also, for all these Igor praise from the offeason throughout, i don't see a big bleepin deal about him personally.

[NetsJets]

Getting a scoring wing must be a priority in the offseason. Even a guy like Josh Hart would do wonders for this team.

[MrDollarBills]

You guys should try Ben at the 5 surrounded by shooters.

And maybe try being a little nicer to him too.

Just a thought.

Don't feed the trolls, yall.

[MrDollarBills]

There were a number of issues with the Nets' approach in the 2nd half last night, but the lack of minutes for Simmons IMHO wasn't one of them.

Simmons was terrible in the 1st half. He continues to give off the vibe of someone who doesn't want to be there.
If he weren't under contract, I don't think he'd be in the NBA at this point.

I also 100% disagree that Simmons should be running the offense. He's still good at the quick hit-ahead pass after he gets a defensive rebound, but he is no longer a playmaker. When he brings it up, he takes 2 dribbles past halfcourt and then passes it to someone on the arc. Then he disappears from the offense.

Otherwise, I thought Dinwiddie took too many shots in the 2nd half. Unfortunately, he's the only guy the Nets have left who can run an offense, and I think the burden may be too much for him. Maybe they can pick up a decent PG in the buyout market.

I also thought the defensive scheme against Brunson was flawed. The Nets have about a million great defenders now, but Harris isn't one of them, and he should never end up isolated on Brunson. And when Harris was out, which was most of the game, JV needed to come up with something better for Brunson, who was by far the Knicks' best player last night.

We need someone to facilitate. We didn't bring Johnson and Bridges in here to watch Dinwiddie shoot us out of games.

This is becoming a disaster imo. Simmons is clearly pissed, but benching Yuta and cutting Claxton's mins is also baffling.

oh well. maybe we'll fall out of the playoffs, Marks can be fired, Vaughn can be fired and we really hit the reset button.

[NetsWorld]

There were a number of issues with the Nets' approach in the 2nd half last night, but the lack of minutes for Simmons IMHO wasn't one of them.

Simmons was terrible in the 1st half. He continues to give off the vibe of someone who doesn't want to be there.
If he weren't under contract, I don't think he'd be in the NBA at this point.

I also 100% disagree that Simmons should be running the offense. He's still good at the quick hit-ahead pass after he gets a defensive rebound, but he is no longer a playmaker. When he brings it up, he takes 2 dribbles past halfcourt and then passes it to someone on the arc. Then he disappears from the offense.

Otherwise, I thought Dinwiddie took too many shots in the 2nd half. Unfortunately, he's the only guy the Nets have left who can run an offense, and I think the burden may be too much for him. Maybe they can pick up a decent PG in the buyout market.

I also thought the defensive scheme against Brunson was flawed. The Nets have about a million great defenders now, but Harris isn't one of them, and he should never end up isolated on Brunson. And when Harris was out, which was most of the game, JV needed to come up with something better for Brunson, who was by far the Knicks' best player last night.

We need someone to facilitate. We didn't bring Johnson and Bridges in here to watch Dinwiddie shoot us out of games.

This is becoming a disaster imo. Simmons is clearly pissed, but benching Yuta and cutting Claxton's mins is also baffling.

oh well. maybe we'll fall out of the playoffs, Marks can be fired, Vaughn can be fired and we really hit the reset button.

Jeff Peterson will be taking over, Marks just wanted to make sure he left his mark, and he did, before being relieved of his duties or resigning. Vaughn will either get fired in the off season or be replaced in the 2024 Offseason. Tsai will be the last domino, who knows if he decides to sell or not, but this team needs a reset button from top to bottom. Sumner, Yuta and Clax should have extended minutes.

[MrDollarBills]

There were a number of issues with the Nets' approach in the 2nd half last night, but the lack of minutes for Simmons IMHO wasn't one of them.

Simmons was terrible in the 1st half. He continues to give off the vibe of someone who doesn't want to be there.
If he weren't under contract, I don't think he'd be in the NBA at this point.

I also 100% disagree that Simmons should be running the offense. He's still good at the quick hit-ahead pass after he gets a defensive rebound, but he is no longer a playmaker. When he brings it up, he takes 2 dribbles past halfcourt and then passes it to someone on the arc. Then he disappears from the offense.

Otherwise, I thought Dinwiddie took too many shots in the 2nd half. Unfortunately, he's the only guy the Nets have left who can run an offense, and I think the burden may be too much for him. Maybe they can pick up a decent PG in the buyout market.

I also thought the defensive scheme against Brunson was flawed. The Nets have about a million great defenders now, but Harris isn't one of them, and he should never end up isolated on Brunson. And when Harris was out, which was most of the game, JV needed to come up with something better for Brunson, who was by far the Knicks' best player last night.

We need someone to facilitate. We didn't bring Johnson and Bridges in here to watch Dinwiddie shoot us out of games.

This is becoming a disaster imo. Simmons is clearly pissed, but benching Yuta and cutting Claxton's mins is also baffling.

oh well. maybe we'll fall out of the playoffs, Marks can be fired, Vaughn can be fired and we really hit the reset button.

Jeff Peterson will be taking over, Marks just wanted to make sure he left his mark, and he did, before being relieved of his duties or resigning. Vaughn will either get fired in the off season or be replaced in the 2024 Offseason. Tsai will be the last domino, who knows if he decides to sell or not, but this team needs a reset button from top to bottom. Sumner, Yuta and Clax should have extended minutes.

I really wish Tsai would sell the team to Steve Cohen.

Vaughn probably needs to go sooner than later if these two games are indicative of what's to come if he doesn't have KD to carry him anymore.

[NetsJets]

Yuta is solid but he wouldn’t have made that much of a difference. We simply don’t have enough firepower. We have a bunch of solid 3 and d role players and 3rd options (Dinwiddie) there will be nights like this. We will be competitive however we will win games just off defense and hustle and lose games like last night when the shots aren’t falling.

[NetsWorld]

We need someone to facilitate. We didn't bring Johnson and Bridges in here to watch Dinwiddie shoot us out of games.

This is becoming a disaster imo. Simmons is clearly pissed, but benching Yuta and cutting Claxton's mins is also baffling.

oh well. maybe we'll fall out of the playoffs, Marks can be fired, Vaughn can be fired and we really hit the reset button.

Jeff Peterson will be taking over, Marks just wanted to make sure he left his mark, and he did, before being relieved of his duties or resigning. Vaughn will either get fired in the off season or be replaced in the 2024 Offseason. Tsai will be the last domino, who knows if he decides to sell or not, but this team needs a reset button from top to bottom. Sumner, Yuta and Clax should have extended minutes.

I really wish Tsai would sell the team to Steve Cohen.

Vaughn probably needs to go sooner than later if these two games are indicative of what's to come if he doesn't have KD to carry him anymore.

Agree. If I am the Nets, I would seriously consider Snyrder or dare I say it, even Udoka; the Udoka situation has simmered down a lot; maybe he will look to redeem his character.

[Keith Van Horn]

You guys should try Ben at the 5 surrounded by shooters.

And maybe try being a little nicer to him too.

Just a thought.

They have tried that. I actually want Vaughn to experiment going the other way for a few games. Force him into being the primary ball handler by having no ball dominant players out there with him. It could be a disaster or it could finally get him back into a rhythm. The dribble the ball up, hand it off to Dinwiddie or Cam then set some screens or stand in the corner thing is clearly not working. Put him out there with Claxton, Bridges, & 2 of DFS/Johnson/Harris to see if he can regain some confidence as a creator.

I think starting Ben for a couple of games might not be a bad idea. Remind him he should be playing like a big dog, fighting for baskets, and being aggressive. What do we have to lose if his value is already as low as it will ever be?

Maybe start

Ben / Cam T / Bridges / CJ / Claxton
*Defense, tempo, and 2-4 can all shoot.

with Spencer / Joe / Royce / Yuta / DFS off the bench
*Energy and scoring, small lineup but keep that pace going and let Dinwiddie cook other teams' 2nd units.

Find ways to get Sumner minutes too, I love his energy. If you took that level of confidence and energy and gave it to Ben... man.

Use Sharpe for when we need true big man minutes, and Patty when we have guards get into foul trouble. Maybe once Seth is healthy again too we get him some reserve minutes again too.

Last night was NOT IT. It was painful to watch as the 2 point lead turned to 10, which turned to 15, which turned to 20...

I miss KD and this season is now a rebuild and growing year.

[Keith Van Horn]

Jeff Peterson will be taking over, Marks just wanted to make sure he left his mark, and he did, before being relieved of his duties or resigning. Vaughn will either get fired in the off season or be replaced in the 2024 Offseason. Tsai will be the last domino, who knows if he decides to sell or not, but this team needs a reset button from top to bottom. Sumner, Yuta and Clax should have extended minutes.

I really wish Tsai would sell the team to Steve Cohen.

Vaughn probably needs to go sooner than later if these two games are indicative of what's to come if he doesn't have KD to carry him anymore.

Agree. If I am the Nets, I would seriously consider Snyrder or dare I say it, even Udoka; the Udoka situation has simmered down a lot; maybe he will look to redeem his character.

I've backed off from going after JV, but yeah, maybe it's time for some new coach faces to match all of the new player faces. It's in my mind now as a thing to watch.