the new new era 2.0 - post deadline discussion

[MrDollarBills]

And now Yuta got snubbed from the 3 point contest. I have zero reason to watch all star weekend now, we have no representation.

It's crazy how we went from winning 12 in a row to now nothing to even look forward to.

He doesn't shoot enough 3s to qualify.

We have to be realistic.

I get it. I just see no reason to watch. I don't want to see the all star game because i don't want to see that scumbag POS Kyrie, and all star saturday night has no Nets, so I don't have any interest.

We're irrelevant.

[Netaman]

Honestly I'm getting more ambivalent with this team.

We have WAY too many good role players that need minutes. I think Marks messed up majorly by not having a firesale at the deadline.

Even if just for 2nds we could have traded O'Neal, Curry, Mills, etc.

I wouldn't even mind flipping Cam Johnson for some value either. Hes about to be a FA and will make too much money.

The team as currently constructed has just too many 3 and D guys with no creators.

I would way rather just play Cam and Simmons a ton of minutes and let them suck and learn from there mistakes. But help them get better.

Now it feels like we can't because we have to play all these role players. It makes no sense.

After Cam scored 40 in a row three times the main priority should have been on him. Not all this other nonsense.

Cam showed us in the Bulls game why he couldn't be trusted yet with a permanent green light. His shot selection was god awful. He has to work on it.

I'll be honest with you. there is no fix for this. This team was primed to make a run at the championship and Kyrie blew it all to hell.

The haul Marks got back was fantastic. However, the team now needs a reliable star that can score to make it all work. Cam is a high upside talent but he's not reliable in terms of his shot selection and maturity. Putting all that weight on him to be the guy probably doesn't end well either.

The Nets are screwed. No sense in investing anything else into this season. It's a waste of time.

that's why it's the perfect 2 months to just give simmons the ball and a green light and see what happens. he's already a pretty dead contract so if he stinks he can't get much deader. rehabbing his game in these short bursts and as a role player hasn't worked in the best of circumstances (with KD) so it's unlikely it will work in the future.

i know jv wants to build a mentality, but honestly now is not the best time to do it the way he wants to. there's no training camp and the roster is way too imbalanced. it's going to be an uphill battle to build the roster cohesion for a defense that's truly elite and keeping the lockerroom harmonious without minutes to go around.

i too wish they could have moved 1 or 2 guys off for more FRP's at the deadline but absent FRP's (or interesting young players) im ok with them holding. we dont know which of these guys are long term fits and which ones arent yet so selling for a bunch of 2nds is a waste. royce and dfs are both positives but also enormously redundant as an example, but right now it's hard to say which one to keep and which one to move. or is there room for both off the bench? ultimately it may be other teams who make that decision for us simply by having a strong preference as part of a future trade.

[Colbinii]

What do you guys think of this off-season for Brooklyn?

Before throwing out random trades, let's outline what Brooklyn currently looks like going into 2024 and what their pick situation is.

Incoming Picks:
2023 first round draft pick from Houston or Philadelphia

Spoiler:

(outgoing swap, Brooklyn outgoing to Houston or Utah)
Houston will receive the more favorable of its 2023 1st round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 1st round pick; Brooklyn will receive the more favorable of (i) the less favorable of its pick and the Houston pick and (ii) Philadelphia's 2023 1st round pick and Utah will receive the least favorable of the three (via Houston's right to swap for Brooklyn; via Philadelphia to Brooklyn) [Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021; Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 2/10/2022; Brooklyn-Utah, 6/30/2022]

2023 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2025 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2025 second round draft pick from Miami
2027 first round draft pick from Philadelphia

Spoiler:

At least two years after Philadelphia conveys a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City if this pick is conveyed to Oklahoma City by 2026, Philadelphia's 1st round pick to Brooklyn protected for selections 1-8 in 2027 and 1-8 in 2028; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Brooklyn by 2028, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Brooklyn [Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 2/10/2022]

2027 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2027 second round draft pick from Dallas
2028 first round draft pick from Phoenix [Swap]
2029 first round draft pick from Dallas
2029 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2029 second round draft pick from Dallas

Outgoing Picks:
2023 second round draft pick to Philadelphia or Atlanta

Spoiler:

(swap, least favorable of Brooklyn, Atlanta and Charlotte incoming)
Philadelphia will receive the most favorable of Atlanta's 2023 2nd round pick, Charlotte's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 2nd round pick and Atlanta will receive the second most favorable and Brooklyn will receive the least favorable of the three (via Atlanta's right to swap Atlanta or Charlotte for Brooklyn) [Atlanta-Charlotte, 6/21/2018; Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/13/2018; Atlanta-Philadelphia, 7/7/2019]

2024 first round draft pick to Houston
2024 second round draft pick to Houston
2025 first round draft pick to Houston (swap, Oklahoma City or Houston incoming)

Spoiler:

Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick; if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead receive the more favorable of its pick and the Brooklyn pick and Brooklyn will receive the less favorable of the two [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2025 second round draft pick to New York
2026 first round draft pick to Houston
2027 first round draft pick to Houston (swap, Houston incoming)
2027 second round draft pick to Detroit

Roster
Ben Simmons
Mikal Bridges
Spencer Dinwiddie [Expiring]
Joe Harris [Expiring]
Dorian Finney-Smith
Royce O'Neale [Unguaranteed]
Nicolas Claxton [Expiring]
Patty Mills [Expiring]
Cameron Thomas
Day'Ron Sharpe
Edmond Sumner [Unguaranteed-Waive]

Free Agents
Seth Curry
Cameron Johnson [RFA]
Yuta Watanabe

Trades

1) Dorian Finney-Smith for Theis/CLE 1st [#26 & #31]
Brooklyn adds future assets and gains more flexibility to move around the draft and get their guys should they fall
Indiana adds a terrific 3+D PF to fit with the core for the next 3-4 years

2) Ben Simmons/#24/2025 1st PHX for Gordon Hayward
Brooklyn rids themselves of the headache which is Ben Simmons while adding a solid wing [when healthy]
Charlotte adds 2 1sts for 1 extra year of mediocre wing play

3) Resign Cameron Johnson [4/100, Team Option in year 4]

Brooklyn rolls with:
Dinwiddie/Mills
Thomas/Harris
Bridges/Hayward
Johnson/O'Neale
Claxton/Theis/Sharpe
+ #20, #26 and #31 + MLE signing puts them at 15 players

[Hello Brooklyn]

Honestly I'm getting more ambivalent with this team.

We have WAY too many good role players that need minutes. I think Marks messed up majorly by not having a firesale at the deadline.

Even if just for 2nds we could have traded O'Neal, Curry, Mills, etc.

I wouldn't even mind flipping Cam Johnson for some value either. Hes about to be a FA and will make too much money.

The team as currently constructed has just too many 3 and D guys with no creators.

I would way rather just play Cam and Simmons a ton of minutes and let them suck and learn from there mistakes. But help them get better.

Now it feels like we can't because we have to play all these role players. It makes no sense.

After Cam scored 40 in a row three times the main priority should have been on him. Not all this other nonsense.

Cam showed us in the Bulls game why he couldn't be trusted yet with a permanent green light. His shot selection was god awful. He has to work on it.

I'll be honest with you. there is no fix for this. This team was primed to make a run at the championship and Kyrie blew it all to hell.

The haul Marks got back was fantastic. However, the team now needs a reliable star that can score to make it all work. Cam is a high upside talent but he's not reliable in terms of his shot selection and maturity. Putting all that weight on him to be the guy probably doesn't end well either.

The Nets are screwed. No sense in investing anything else into this season. It's a waste of time.

One bad game?

Thats the point. Youre supposed to let him have bad games. Thats how he gets better. Not put him on a short leash.

Thats not how players learn and grow.

Marks did get a good haul. But he kept way too many of those role players from the old team. Should have sold low on all of them.

They have no place here anymore.

This season should be about rebuilding around Bridges/Cam/Simmons/Claxton. All the other guys are irrelevent to me.

[MGrand15]

I know everyone is freaking out about the Knick game and we might lose tonight but I still feel good about the team. I expect Vaughn to figure the rotations out. Right now, he's overcomplicating it. He's been doing stuff he hasn't done all year. Playing Patty. Playing Sharpe. Playing Simmons with no ball handlers next to him. Weird stuff. I don't think it needs to be that complicated.

The bench should be

Cam
Joe
Yuta
Royce
Simmons

If you want another ball handler, play Sumner or Curry over Yuta or Joe. For whatever reason Vaughn seems to be treating Sumner like a "young guy". Sumner is 27. He's been better than Curry this year. WAY better than Patty. Better than Cam too. He needs PT.

I also think we need to remember that we're adding FOUR new starters + guys like Cam / Sharpe have barely been in the rotation this year. This is pretty much a brand new team. Dinwiddie said in the Philly game he was accidentally calling Maverick plays. I think everyone is still adjusting. We know Dinwiddie is a better PG than he showed at MSG. He'll adjust.

-

Last thing on the team right now. This Ben situation is incredibly weird. How do you play a guy who can barely dunk? He's clearly not healthy or his body isn't right. The team hasn't mentioned it once. When he got injured on a back to back, Vaughn lowkey blasted him for not being prepared to play. Remember when the performance team used to be super conservative? Where any injury meant you were out for 2 weeks, followed by a minutes limit, no back to backs, etc. It kind of feels like we're tired of Ben's BS and we're just forcing him to play.

We can talk about mentality and aggressiveness and whatever all day. The guy can't jump at all. He can barely move. Ben - more than anyone in the league - depends on ELITE athleticism. If he's just a good athlete, he turns into an OK player. Where he is now? He's a terrible athlete. That dude is not an NBA player. This guy would struggle if you sent him to play in the Big East right now. We're not doing him or ourselves any favors if we play him in this state.

[TheNetsFan]

What do you guys think of this off-season for Brooklyn?

Before throwing out random trades, let's outline what Brooklyn currently looks like going into 2024 and what their pick situation is.

Incoming Picks:
2023 first round draft pick from Houston or Philadelphia

Spoiler:

(outgoing swap, Brooklyn outgoing to Houston or Utah)
Houston will receive the more favorable of its 2023 1st round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 1st round pick; Brooklyn will receive the more favorable of (i) the less favorable of its pick and the Houston pick and (ii) Philadelphia's 2023 1st round pick and Utah will receive the least favorable of the three (via Houston's right to swap for Brooklyn; via Philadelphia to Brooklyn) [Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021; Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 2/10/2022; Brooklyn-Utah, 6/30/2022]

2023 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2025 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2025 second round draft pick from Miami
2027 first round draft pick from Philadelphia

Spoiler:

At least two years after Philadelphia conveys a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City if this pick is conveyed to Oklahoma City by 2026, Philadelphia's 1st round pick to Brooklyn protected for selections 1-8 in 2027 and 1-8 in 2028; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Brooklyn by 2028, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Brooklyn [Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 2/10/2022]

2027 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2027 second round draft pick from Dallas
2028 first round draft pick from Phoenix [Swap]
2029 first round draft pick from Dallas
2029 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2029 second round draft pick from Dallas

Outgoing Picks:
2023 second round draft pick to Philadelphia or Atlanta

Spoiler:

(swap, least favorable of Brooklyn, Atlanta and Charlotte incoming)
Philadelphia will receive the most favorable of Atlanta's 2023 2nd round pick, Charlotte's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 2nd round pick and Atlanta will receive the second most favorable and Brooklyn will receive the least favorable of the three (via Atlanta's right to swap Atlanta or Charlotte for Brooklyn) [Atlanta-Charlotte, 6/21/2018; Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/13/2018; Atlanta-Philadelphia, 7/7/2019]

2024 first round draft pick to Houston
2024 second round draft pick to Houston
2025 first round draft pick to Houston (swap, Oklahoma City or Houston incoming)

Spoiler:

Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick; if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead receive the more favorable of its pick and the Brooklyn pick and Brooklyn will receive the less favorable of the two [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2025 second round draft pick to New York
2026 first round draft pick to Houston
2027 first round draft pick to Houston (swap, Houston incoming)
2027 second round draft pick to Detroit

Roster
Ben Simmons
Mikal Bridges
Spencer Dinwiddie [Expiring]
Joe Harris [Expiring]
Dorian Finney-Smith
Royce O'Neale [Unguaranteed]
Nicolas Claxton [Expiring]
Patty Mills [Expiring]
Cameron Thomas
Day'Ron Sharpe
Edmond Sumner [Unguaranteed-Waive]

Free Agents
Seth Curry
Cameron Johnson [RFA]
Yuta Watanabe

Trades

1) Dorian Finney-Smith for Theis/CLE 1st [#26 & #31]
Brooklyn adds future assets and gains more flexibility to move around the draft and get their guys should they fall
Indiana adds a terrific 3+D PF to fit with the core for the next 3-4 years

2) Ben Simmons/#24/2025 1st PHX for Gordon Hayward
Brooklyn rids themselves of the headache which is Ben Simmons while adding a solid wing [when healthy]
Charlotte adds 2 1sts for 1 extra year of mediocre wing play

3) Resign Cameron Johnson [4/100, Team Option in year 4]

Brooklyn rolls with:
Dinwiddie/Mills
Thomas/Harris
Bridges/Hayward
Johnson/O'Neale
Claxton/Theis/Sharpe
+ #20, #26 and #31 + MLE signing puts them at 15 players

All sorts of bad in those proposed trades.

1) The Nets currently have a roster crunch. Why would they flip DFS for Theis & two late 2023 1sts (giving them 4 1sts this year)? They need to consolidate, not add. My belief is that DFS is more likely used to try to trade up. 2 late '23 picks is not at all appealing.

2) Trading Simmons & 2 picks for Hayward is a massive overpay. If you're adding 2 1sts to Simmons, you likely can get something far more valuable, whether it's a player or TPE.

3) 4/$100mil is an overpay for Johnson. I'd be shocked if he gets more than Mikal did (4/$90mil). Fair market is should be around 4/$80mil. I don't believe the Nets will offer him 4/$100mil. If that's the number, they can to extract some value by facilitating a sign and trade or make him sign an offer sheet with another team and then decide whether to match it.

[Netaman]

What do you guys think of this off-season for Brooklyn?


Trades

1) Dorian Finney-Smith for Theis/CLE 1st [#26 & #31]
Brooklyn adds future assets and gains more flexibility to move around the draft and get their guys should they fall
Indiana adds a terrific 3+D PF to fit with the core for the next 3-4 years

2) Ben Simmons/#24/2025 1st PHX for Gordon Hayward
Brooklyn rids themselves of the headache which is Ben Simmons while adding a solid wing [when healthy]
Charlotte adds 2 1sts for 1 extra year of mediocre wing play

3) Resign Cameron Johnson [4/100, Team Option in year 4]

Brooklyn rolls with:
Dinwiddie/Mills
Thomas/Harris
Bridges/Hayward
Johnson/O'Neale
Claxton/Theis/Sharpe
+ #20, #26 and #31 + MLE signing puts them at 15 players

it's not bad but i dont think any of those moves are particularly great value. drafting 3 first rounders with an already deep lineup for next year seems tough. i think it's much more likely they package things to move up.

right now they have picks #21, #24. I could see them trading someone like Royce Oneale or DFS and #21 to Portland for pick #12. Last year Portland offered a top 10 for OG, Oneale/DFS offer similar 3+D skillsets and the price is a lot lower. Nets could throw in another first round pick or Cam Thomas if they need to sweeten the pot or just get up higher for someone in the top 10. Orlando has 2 top 10 picks right now so they could be a fit if they want to turn 1 of those picks into multiple future firsts.

i could see a hayward for simmons swap.

i could also see nets being willing to overpay FVV instead of dinwiddie as lead guard, especially if dinwiddie continues his chuck-a-thon. that could be as a s&t for either of simmons or dinwiddie or harris.

looking at what's available though all signs to me point to marks aggressively looking for another building block piece in the top 15 of the draft. he finally has ammunition to move up and im sure he's thrilled that this offseason looks like a bad one for star hunting.

[TheNetsFan]

Honestly I'm getting more ambivalent with this team.

We have WAY too many good role players that need minutes. I think Marks messed up majorly by not having a firesale at the deadline.

Even if just for 2nds we could have traded O'Neal, Curry, Mills, etc.

I wouldn't even mind flipping Cam Johnson for some value either. Hes about to be a FA and will make too much money.

The team as currently constructed has just too many 3 and D guys with no creators.

I would way rather just play Cam and Simmons a ton of minutes and let them suck and learn from there mistakes. But help them get better.

Now it feels like we can't because we have to play all these role players. It makes no sense.

After Cam scored 40 in a row three times the main priority should have been on him. Not all this other nonsense.

Cam showed us in the Bulls game why he couldn't be trusted yet with a permanent green light. His shot selection was god awful. He has to work on it.

I'll be honest with you. there is no fix for this. This team was primed to make a run at the championship and Kyrie blew it all to hell.

The haul Marks got back was fantastic. However, the team now needs a reliable star that can score to make it all work. Cam is a high upside talent but he's not reliable in terms of his shot selection and maturity. Putting all that weight on him to be the guy probably doesn't end well either.

The Nets are screwed. No sense in investing anything else into this season. It's a waste of time.

One bad game?

Thats the point. Youre supposed to let him have bad games. Thats how he gets better. Not put him on a short leash.

Thats not how players learn and grow.

Marks did get a good haul. But he kept way too many of those role players from the old team. Should have sold low on all of them.

They have no place here anymore.

This season should be about rebuilding around Bridges/Cam/Simmons/Claxton. All the other guys are irrelevent to me.

Those contracts were kept as expiring contract trade assets. No sense in giving them away now. It's up to Vaughn to prioritize the development of the guys you mention over making sure everybody is happy. I agree that Curry & Patty should not see the court for the rest of the season, except if needed due to injuries or we really need a quick offensive spark.

I'm not going to say the season should be about rebuilding around those guys. It should be about evaluating the new & young guys. Beyond that, the single most valuable thing that can happen through the last 25 games is rebuilding some trade value in Ben Simmons.

[Colbinii]

All sorts of bad in those proposed trades.

1) The Nets currently have a roster crunch. Why would they flip DFS for Theis & two late 2023 1sts (giving them 4 1sts this year)? They need to consolidate, not add. My belief is that DFS is more likely used to try to trade up. 2 late '23 picks is not at all appealing.

How do they have a roster crunch? I listed 15 players [including 3 draft picks + MLE].

I expect Yuta Watanabe to be overpaid by another team in Free Agency while Seth Curry leaves for either a final payday or a championship contender.

Maybe I am missing someone else but I combed through Spotrac.

2) Trading Simmons & 2 picks for Hayward is a massive overpay. If you're adding 2 1sts to Simmons, you likely can get something far more valuable, whether it's a player or TPE.

I don't think so. Simmons is massively negative at this point.

3) 4/$100mil is an overpay for Johnson. I'd be shocked if he gets more than Mikal did (4/$90mil). Fair market is should be around 4/$80mil. I don't believe the Nets will offer him 4/$100mil. If that's the number, they can to extract some value by facilitating a sign and trade or make him sign an offer sheet with another team and then decide whether to match it.

Remember, new TV deal coming in with significantly more revenue.

Bridges is underpaid at 4/90 and if you read the details, its really a 4/75 deal [Team Option on year 4].

[Netaman]

the Net roster crunch is that they currently have 8 players who have started for playoff teams under contract next year, plus Cam, plus 2 FRPs. So that's rights to 12 guys who need minutes before adding anything (Patty is contract #13, Sharpe is contract #14, Sumner is contract #15).

so something most certainly needs to give - especially from the bridges, cj, dfs, oneale group because that's 4 players who are varying levels of 3 & D from playoff teams. they are obviously intending to keep bridges if they turned down 4 frp's which makes sense because he's the best, youngest, and under the best contract. but id be pretty shocked if they dont trade at least 1 of DFS/Royce (who should both be worth approximately 1 FRP).

trading either of them for a 2024 first would be a good move since they don't currently have a pick next year and this year they have plenty.

[TheNetsFan]

the Net roster crunch is that they currently have 8 players who have started for playoff teams under contract next year, plus Cam, plus 2 FRPs. So that's rights to 12 guys who need minutes before adding anything (Patty is contract #13, Sharpe is contract #14, Sumner is contract #15).

so something most certainly needs to give - especially from the bridges, cj, dfs, oneale group because that's 4 players who are varying levels of 3 & D from playoff teams. they are obviously intending to keep bridges if they turned down 4 frp's which makes sense because he's the best, youngest, and under the best contract. but id be pretty shocked if they dont trade at least 1 of DFS/Royce (who should both be worth approximately 1 FRP).

trading either of them for a 2024 first would be a good move since they don't currently have a pick next year and this year they have plenty.

Agreed on trading for a 2024 1st being ideal, but neither is worth a team giving up an unprotected 1st (save for a team with a lot of talent & depth like Memphis or if it's the worst of a set of picks like we gave up for Royce). I don't think Royce is returning a 1st as an expiring unless it's bad salary coming back. The best way to maximize the pick value on a guy like DFS would be to trade him at the draft. He has more value than two very late 1sts. If he's dealt for a pick, it's more likely that a team in the mid to late lottery looking for a vet trades back 10ish spots to acquire him. That being said, he's the ideal piece to lump with Harris's expiring (about $34mil combined) and picks to go star hunting.

[Netaman]

the Net roster crunch is that they currently have 8 players who have started for playoff teams under contract next year, plus Cam, plus 2 FRPs. So that's rights to 12 guys who need minutes before adding anything (Patty is contract #13, Sharpe is contract #14, Sumner is contract #15).

so something most certainly needs to give - especially from the bridges, cj, dfs, oneale group because that's 4 players who are varying levels of 3 & D from playoff teams. they are obviously intending to keep bridges if they turned down 4 frp's which makes sense because he's the best, youngest, and under the best contract. but id be pretty shocked if they dont trade at least 1 of DFS/Royce (who should both be worth approximately 1 FRP).

trading either of them for a 2024 first would be a good move since they don't currently have a pick next year and this year they have plenty.

Agreed on trading for a 2024 1st being ideal, but neither is worth a team giving up an unprotected 1st (save for a team with a lot of talent & depth like Memphis or if it's the worst of a set of picks like we gave up for Royce). I don't think Royce is returning a 1st as an expiring unless it's bad salary coming back. The best way to maximize the pick value on a guy like DFS would be to trade him at the draft. He has more value than two very late 1sts. If he's dealt for a pick, it's more likely that a team in the mid to late lottery looking for a vet trades back 10ish spots to acquire him. That being said, he's the ideal piece to lump with Harris's expiring (about $34mil combined) and picks to go star hunting.

what star is going to be out there though?

i think you could probably get a protected 2024 first for Royce or DFS from a contender like Denver. it's basically the same type of trade that got Royce here in the first place.

but my first choice would be to use one of them to move up in the draft for a higher end talent.

[NetsWorld]

the Net roster crunch is that they currently have 8 players who have started for playoff teams under contract next year, plus Cam, plus 2 FRPs. So that's rights to 12 guys who need minutes before adding anything (Patty is contract #13, Sharpe is contract #14, Sumner is contract #15).

so something most certainly needs to give - especially from the bridges, cj, dfs, oneale group because that's 4 players who are varying levels of 3 & D from playoff teams. they are obviously intending to keep bridges if they turned down 4 frp's which makes sense because he's the best, youngest, and under the best contract. but id be pretty shocked if they dont trade at least 1 of DFS/Royce (who should both be worth approximately 1 FRP).

trading either of them for a 2024 first would be a good move since they don't currently have a pick next year and this year they have plenty.

Agreed on trading for a 2024 1st being ideal, but neither is worth a team giving up an unprotected 1st (save for a team with a lot of talent & depth like Memphis or if it's the worst of a set of picks like we gave up for Royce). I don't think Royce is returning a 1st as an expiring unless it's bad salary coming back. The best way to maximize the pick value on a guy like DFS would be to trade him at the draft. He has more value than two very late 1sts. If he's dealt for a pick, it's more likely that a team in the mid to late lottery looking for a vet trades back 10ish spots to acquire him. That being said, he's the ideal piece to lump with Harris's expiring (about $34mil combined) and picks to go star hunting.

what star is going to be out there though?

i think you could probably get a protected 2024 first for Royce or DFS from a contender like Denver. it's basically the same type of trade that got Royce here in the first place.

but my first choice would be to use one of them to move up in the draft for a higher end talent.

This Summer will be MONUMENTALLY huge for the Nets in terms of their future. But based on the pattern, it seems like they are going to hold off rebuilding and try and see if someone asks out this Summer. Trae Young, Luka, Brown, etc..... Will all be on the Nets radar. I think the Nets can seriously pull off two good trades to get back into a serious title contender. Lets see we trade with Dallas again for Luka, assuming Kyrie leaves, which is highly likely, you giive them the four Phoenix picks. Then you can turn around and trade for John Collins/Clint Capela, which solidifies us as top to bottom ELITE contender. Luka would unlock our potential and Capela answers all of our low post problems.


Another team is Boston. If Boston loses, Brown is an FA in 2024, the Celtics are not going to wait for him to pounce for nothing and the Celtics love trading for future picks. The two Dallas picks and Joe Harris/Cam Thomas should get it done.

[Riconet]

Cam showed us in the Bulls game why he couldn't be trusted yet with a permanent green light. His shot selection was god awful. He has to work on it.

I'll be honest with you. there is no fix for this. This team was primed to make a run at the championship and Kyrie blew it all to hell.

The haul Marks got back was fantastic. However, the team now needs a reliable star that can score to make it all work. Cam is a high upside talent but he's not reliable in terms of his shot selection and maturity. Putting all that weight on him to be the guy probably doesn't end well either.

The Nets are screwed. No sense in investing anything else into this season. It's a waste of time.

I agree with not building around Cam, but the rest of this is way too pessimistic IMHO.

I think the Nets can beat anyone in the East in the playoffs other than Boston and Milwaukee.

They are currently #5 in the EC. Would you not be excited to watch them play Cleveland in the 1st round, or Philly if the Nets fall to #6?

They might fall off the table, but I think this group has too much heart and basketball IQ for that to happen.

More broadly, they have excised the tumor and emerged from the OR with a very likeable group that is capable of playing suffocating D and making it rain from the arc.

The next couple of months are also worth watching to learn the answers to a lot of questions about next year:

- whether JV is the right guy to coach them
- whether Bridges can take the next step and be the best or 2nd-best guy on a contender
- whether Dinwiddie can be the primary playmaker
- whether Cam J. is worth a fat extension
- how they are going to create for Clax
- whether Harris has recaptured his shooting mojo
- whether there is any chance of resurrecting Simmons

I think if you give them a chance you'll be glad you did.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I can't believe we got offered 2 first round picks for DFS. If true Marks needed to take that. We don't have room for him and hes 29.

Anyway, fire sale can wait till the off season. Trade a bunch of these role guys and get picks.

[Paradise]

I can't believe we got offered 2 first round picks for DFS. If true Marks needed to take that. We don't have room for him and hes 29.

Anyway, fire sale can wait till the off season. Trade a bunch of these role guys and get picks.

Picks to do what with if there isn’t any foundation here? I don’t get the Sam Hinkie concept here.

[NetsWorld]

I can't believe we got offered 2 first round picks for DFS. If true Marks needed to take that. We don't have room for him and hes 29.

Anyway, fire sale can wait till the off season. Trade a bunch of these role guys and get picks.

Never mind using them as trade bait, we got Seth coming off the books, Harris will be an expiring. Nets are pretty well shape moving forward.

[MrDollarBills]

I know everyone is freaking out about the Knick game and we might lose tonight but I still feel good about the team. I expect Vaughn to figure the rotations out. Right now, he's overcomplicating it. He's been doing stuff he hasn't done all year. Playing Patty. Playing Sharpe. Playing Simmons with no ball handlers next to him. Weird stuff. I don't think it needs to be that complicated.

The bench should be

Cam
Joe
Yuta
Royce
Simmons

If you want another ball handler, play Sumner or Curry over Yuta or Joe. For whatever reason Vaughn seems to be treating Sumner like a "young guy". Sumner is 27. He's been better than Curry this year. WAY better than Patty. Better than Cam too. He needs PT.

I also think we need to remember that we're adding FOUR new starters + guys like Cam / Sharpe have barely been in the rotation this year. This is pretty much a brand new team. Dinwiddie said in the Philly game he was accidentally calling Maverick plays. I think everyone is still adjusting. We know Dinwiddie is a better PG than he showed at MSG. He'll adjust.

-

Last thing on the team right now. This Ben situation is incredibly weird. How do you play a guy who can barely dunk? He's clearly not healthy or his body isn't right. The team hasn't mentioned it once. When he got injured on a back to back, Vaughn lowkey blasted him for not being prepared to play. Remember when the performance team used to be super conservative? Where any injury meant you were out for 2 weeks, followed by a minutes limit, no back to backs, etc. It kind of feels like we're tired of Ben's BS and we're just forcing him to play.

We can talk about mentality and aggressiveness and whatever all day. The guy can't jump at all. He can barely move. Ben - more than anyone in the league - depends on ELITE athleticism. If he's just a good athlete, he turns into an OK player. Where he is now? He's a terrible athlete. That dude is not an NBA player. This guy would struggle if you sent him to play in the Big East right now. We're not doing him or ourselves any favors if we play him in this state.

yeah, the way Ben is being handled is baffling. He clearly isn't right. Why not shut him down? He's missing point blank lay ups because he has absolutely no lift.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

Well, here's this old geezer's take on the whole damn thing.
Since 1976, I've been saying that I hope that the Nets win an NBA championship before I die.
I guess I'm going to have to just live that much longer!!

[Tha King]

What do you guys think of this off-season for Brooklyn?

Before throwing out random trades, let's outline what Brooklyn currently looks like going into 2024 and what their pick situation is.

Incoming Picks:
2023 first round draft pick from Houston or Philadelphia

Spoiler:

(outgoing swap, Brooklyn outgoing to Houston or Utah)
Houston will receive the more favorable of its 2023 1st round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 1st round pick; Brooklyn will receive the more favorable of (i) the less favorable of its pick and the Houston pick and (ii) Philadelphia's 2023 1st round pick and Utah will receive the least favorable of the three (via Houston's right to swap for Brooklyn; via Philadelphia to Brooklyn) [Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021; Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 2/10/2022; Brooklyn-Utah, 6/30/2022]

2023 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2025 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2025 second round draft pick from Miami
2027 first round draft pick from Philadelphia

Spoiler:

At least two years after Philadelphia conveys a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City if this pick is conveyed to Oklahoma City by 2026, Philadelphia's 1st round pick to Brooklyn protected for selections 1-8 in 2027 and 1-8 in 2028; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Brooklyn by 2028, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Brooklyn [Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 2/10/2022]

2027 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2027 second round draft pick from Dallas
2028 first round draft pick from Phoenix [Swap]
2029 first round draft pick from Dallas
2029 first round draft pick from Phoenix
2029 second round draft pick from Dallas

Outgoing Picks:
2023 second round draft pick to Philadelphia or Atlanta

Spoiler:

(swap, least favorable of Brooklyn, Atlanta and Charlotte incoming)
Philadelphia will receive the most favorable of Atlanta's 2023 2nd round pick, Charlotte's 2023 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2023 2nd round pick and Atlanta will receive the second most favorable and Brooklyn will receive the least favorable of the three (via Atlanta's right to swap Atlanta or Charlotte for Brooklyn) [Atlanta-Charlotte, 6/21/2018; Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/13/2018; Atlanta-Philadelphia, 7/7/2019]

2024 first round draft pick to Houston
2024 second round draft pick to Houston
2025 first round draft pick to Houston (swap, Oklahoma City or Houston incoming)

Spoiler:

Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick; if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead receive the more favorable of its pick and the Brooklyn pick and Brooklyn will receive the less favorable of the two [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2025 second round draft pick to New York
2026 first round draft pick to Houston
2027 first round draft pick to Houston (swap, Houston incoming)
2027 second round draft pick to Detroit

Roster
Ben Simmons
Mikal Bridges
Spencer Dinwiddie [Expiring]
Joe Harris [Expiring]
Dorian Finney-Smith
Royce O'Neale [Unguaranteed]
Nicolas Claxton [Expiring]
Patty Mills [Expiring]
Cameron Thomas
Day'Ron Sharpe
Edmond Sumner [Unguaranteed-Waive]

Free Agents
Seth Curry
Cameron Johnson [RFA]
Yuta Watanabe

Trades

1) Dorian Finney-Smith for Theis/CLE 1st [#26 & #31]
Brooklyn adds future assets and gains more flexibility to move around the draft and get their guys should they fall
Indiana adds a terrific 3+D PF to fit with the core for the next 3-4 years

2) Ben Simmons/#24/2025 1st PHX for Gordon Hayward
Brooklyn rids themselves of the headache which is Ben Simmons while adding a solid wing [when healthy]
Charlotte adds 2 1sts for 1 extra year of mediocre wing play

3) Resign Cameron Johnson [4/100, Team Option in year 4]

Brooklyn rolls with:
Dinwiddie/Mills
Thomas/Harris
Bridges/Hayward
Johnson/O'Neale
Claxton/Theis/Sharpe
+ #20, #26 and #31 + MLE signing puts them at 15 players

well thought out, thanks.

1 - DFS is on a good deal and is a proven starting caliber 3&D wing that should be a key player for the next few years. So it would take an overpay imo to trade him and this isn't it. For comparison, the team traded an unprotected Nets/Sixers 2023 pick for O'Neale last offseason without sending any salary back to the Jazz.

2 - Using multiple picks to trade Simmons would depend on if the team really wants space for the 2024 offseason. Otherwise, just play out next season with Simmons with the hope that he can regain some of his athleticism as he recovers from his injury.

3 - CJ would need to show some level of offensive creation and not just 3&okayD for that type of deal imo