Poll: Public sees MJ as GOAT

[Goomba3666]

I really respect Lebron and don't mean to pile on, but other polling businesses have gotten involved as well. On this poll, Bron isn't in the top 5 greatest athletes of all time.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/michael_jordan_named_the_greatest_athlete_of_all_time_lebron_james_is_not_even_in_the_top_5/s1_16751_38463058

Sorry but Messi being #8 and behind Lebron and Kobe is a crime.

Lebron isnt and wont be top 5 athlete ever.

Internationally, this would OBVIOUSLY look different.

[Goomba3666]

I really respect Lebron and don't mean to pile on, but other polling businesses have gotten involved as well. On this poll, Bron isn't in the top 5 greatest athletes of all time.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/michael_jordan_named_the_greatest_athlete_of_all_time_lebron_james_is_not_even_in_the_top_5/s1_16751_38463058

Haven’t the last 6+ years taught us that polls are unreliable?

On a more serious note, what’s with all the sudden sport polls lately?

I think pollsters are capitalizing off the general public. SuperBowl + Lebron = ratings for TV and the usual recycling of names (Brady/Bron/Jordan/Manning).

Seems like a perfect time for polling.

[Karate Diop]

Right because Pippen with his 8 PPG and 20 minutes per game off the bench was surely the reason Jordan stopped getting bounced in Round 1 and not any other reason.

If what I said was long winded, I would love to see what ya'll would call them essay's Lebron stans write to explain his failures

I'm perfectly fine with some picking MJ as the GOAT. I do groan however when people pretend it's not close and / or can't acknowledge any of MJ's deficiencies...

Difference is that you guys go into a different dimensions to make Lebron's failures noble. Lol.

You guys have made finals appearances an accomplishment to compensate for his losses in the finals. You guys also go out of your way to crap on every teammate he's had. Most player fans just don't have the type of commitment that Bron stans have

The finals appearances argument is one of the funniest things to me... Like what are you even saying? That if LeBron lost earlier you'd respect him more? Completely illogical

Losing in the finals is still better then losing in the first round...

Can't lose in the finals if you don't make it to the finals.

[Goomba3666]

I'm perfectly fine with some picking MJ as the GOAT. I do groan however when people pretend it's not close and / or can't acknowledge any of MJ's deficiencies...

Difference is that you guys go into a different dimensions to make Lebron's failures noble. Lol.

You guys have made finals appearances an accomplishment to compensate for his losses in the finals. You guys also go out of your way to crap on every teammate he's had. Most player fans just don't have the type of commitment that Bron stans have

The finals appearances argument is one of the funniest things to me... Like what are you even saying? That if LeBron lost earlier you'd respect him more? Completely illogical

Losing in the finals is still better then losing in the first round...

Can't lose in the finals if you don't make it to the finals.

Nah. You guys have legit made it an accolade and stopped as soon as he left that dumpster juice conference. Lol.

You guys created a gold medal for losing. Not judging, Lebron fans shouldn't be shocked when the majority don't take you seriously.

[OriginalRed]

Preach. That was a seriously long worded way to say Jordan couldn't get it done without Pippen.

Right because Pippen with his 8 PPG and 20 minutes per game off the bench was surely the reason Jordan stopped getting bounced in Round 1 and not any other reason.

If what I said was long winded, I would love to see what ya'll would call them essay's Lebron stans write to explain his failures

I'm perfectly fine with some picking MJ as the GOAT. I do groan however when people pretend it's not close and / or can't acknowledge any of MJ's deficiencies...

Oh don't get it wrong, MJ had plenty of flaws and I'll be the first one to tell you that alot of the myth behind him is exaggerated.

My earlier statement was in direct response to that guy who made such an ignorant statement by saying Jordan couldn't win a playoff series without Pippen, as if he wasn't good enough too. That's what I mean by ignoring context and looking at a stat at face value. Like, imagine someone said Lebron needed Larry Hughes to make the playoffs because he missed the playoffs his first two years without him. You see how dumb it sounds?

[PedroFlu]

It's debatable who was the best player. But Jordan was greater, no doubt. And incomparably more popular too - you're talking one of the most charismatic players ever vs the opposite.

Anyway, common sense is usually right or kinda right. Perception does reflect reality in this case.

Not taking anything away from LeBron, one of the greatest athletes ever.

[PedroFlu]

Btw, LeBron is the only reason I still follow closely the NBA. And I'm ready to change my opinion if he wins 2 more.

[BoatsNZones]

I have MJ as the best player I've actually seen play in his prime, but I will say that it does not help Lebron's case that at least half the population who care about hoops simply dislike the guy or are disinterested by him on/off the floor. Jordan meanwhile was an icon and the definition of "must see TV".

[Johnny Bball]

Lebron thinks MJ is the GOAT and spent most of his life modeling himself and chasing after that man, he wears 23 for a reason. 6 championships, 6 finals MVPs, 10x scoring champ, 5 MVPs, a NCAA championship, even 2x dunk champ.

Lebron is great but I don’t see how anybody besides the biggest stans could put him over MJ, Lebron being personally nicer and more socially conscious isn’t something I factor.

'm wondering what film James tries to invent to copy the upcoming movie Air.

I'm sure it's just a 'mere coincidence' of the timing that the movies getting released.

Lmao. What a conspiracy theory!

[kuclas]

I’m in my late 40s. So have seen both careers.

Lebron is great. Top 3/4 in my opinion. I still think some may still rank Kareem higher. It’s splitting hairs. Lebron just gets dinged for switching teams when he sees a decline in the team.

With todays nba pace. I have no doubt MJ could still average 30 points a game at age 38 like lebron Heck he took 3 years off and still average 23/5/5 in a slower pace nba.

[ckman]

Majority viewed Jordan as GOAT

Minority Levron’s fans : Their opinions don’t count, they’re biased and know nothing about basketball.

[TheLand13]

Right because Pippen with his 8 PPG and 20 minutes per game off the bench was surely the reason Jordan stopped getting bounced in Round 1 and not any other reason.

If what I said was long winded, I would love to see what ya'll would call them essay's Lebron stans write to explain his failures

I'm perfectly fine with some picking MJ as the GOAT. I do groan however when people pretend it's not close and / or can't acknowledge any of MJ's deficiencies...

Difference is that you guys go into a different dimensions to make Lebron's failures noble. Lol.

You guys have made finals appearances an accomplishment to compensate for his losses in the finals. You guys also go out of your way to crap on every teammate he's had. Most player fans just don't have the type of commitment that Bron stans have

I seriously doubt any serious LeBron fan is using finals appearances as an actual accolade. More than anything, it’s a showcase of just how long LeBron reigned supreme for and how much of a grip hold he had over the East. Being able to do what he did isn’t easy and while there were definitely seasons where his team was very clearly the best one in the East, it showcases just how great he really was and how difficult it is to beat him. I think it’s very telling that, apart from 2011, Lebron’s losses came in situations where his opponents were vastly superior to his. That can’t be ignored.

[OdomFan]

Preach. That was a seriously long worded way to say Jordan couldn't get it done without Pippen.

Right because Pippen with his 8 PPG and 20 minutes per game off the bench was surely the reason Jordan stopped getting bounced in Round 1 and not any other reason.

If what I said was long winded, I would love to see what ya'll would call them essay's Lebron stans write to explain his failures

I'm perfectly fine with some picking MJ as the GOAT. I do groan however when people pretend it's not close and / or can't acknowledge any of MJ's deficiencies...

yeah well I "groan" when people pretend like there aren't other players that have an argument over Lebron. Heck the very guy who Lebron just surpassed in most points in nba history, Kareem still has a better resume than Lebron James. How is Lebron better again?

Tim Duncan led his team to more championships without having to jump from team to team to join up with this or that person to make it happen. Lebron is better how?

How is he better than Shaq?

[-Sammy-]

This shouldn't surprise anyone; LeBron came closer than anyone else to dethroning the GOAT, but even sustained marketing and press onslaughts weren't enough to sway public opinion at-large. He'll have to settle for top-three status alongside Kareem, which is incredible and amazing. Imagine being at-worst the third-best person to ever do something.

He won't keep his top 3. Lebron is currently enjoying recency bias. He will drop further down after retirement, like what happened to Kobe.

I disagree; we'll see.

[Karate Diop]

Right because Pippen with his 8 PPG and 20 minutes per game off the bench was surely the reason Jordan stopped getting bounced in Round 1 and not any other reason.

If what I said was long winded, I would love to see what ya'll would call them essay's Lebron stans write to explain his failures

I'm perfectly fine with some picking MJ as the GOAT. I do groan however when people pretend it's not close and / or can't acknowledge any of MJ's deficiencies...

yeah well I "groan" when people pretend like there aren't other players that have an argument over Lebron. Heck the very guy who Lebron just surpassed in most points in nba history, Kareem still has a better resume than Lebron James. How is Lebron better again?

Tim Duncan led his team to more championships without having to jump from team to team to join up with this or that person to make it happen. Lebron is better how?

How is he better than Shaq?

LeBron, Kareem, Wilt, MJ.

Those are my 4.

Duncan, Shaq and Russell I have in the next tier. But their are arguments for Duncan or Russell depending again on what your buckets of criteria are and how you weigh each.

[Jables]

You can watch a lot of NBA games every year and still be a casual now. NBA is a cult of the celebrity.

Greatness is defined by perception, it's not like the majority of the public knows everything. Tom Brady is put on a pedestal because of team accomplishments, but he has a hell of a lot of team accomplishments so I'm not going to belabour the point. Chasing the legacy of past greats has led to a lot of players amassing crazy stats and personal achievements, but as an all around package of pure offensive and defensive capability I think only a few people have even pretended to try chasing Jordan. LeBron gave up a long time ago IMO. Jumping teams arbitrarily for acting opportunities, not really making much of a case as a consistent DPOY level player (even Kobe has 4 more first teams), you can't tell me he didn't give up in that regard.

[MavsDirk41]

There's a big difference between couldn't and didn't.

Jordan played 15 seasons, 10 of those were with Pippen and of the five that he didn't, three of them were his first three years in the league with rosters full of crack heads and journeymen going up against all time great teams and the other two were his last two on the Wizards where he actually had them projected to make the playoffs before he got hurt and was effectively done as a impactful player.

that’s still just another way of saying he never won in the playoffs without pippen.

Preach. That was a seriously long worded way to say Jordan couldn't get it done without Pippen.

Well James couldnt get it done without Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis. Nobody wins a championship by themself right? I like how James fans say Jordan couldnt get it done without Pippen like lebron james won a championship without another all star lol

[Tottery]

The common person who doesn't watch sports regularly knows MJ is the GOAT. It's pretty obvious because he was a flat out winner. Lebron is great. He has made it to the Finals a ton, but we can't exactly say he is on the same level as MJ when LBJ holds the record for most Finals losses. Sure, he deserves credit for getting there that much, but he never had that killer mentality MJ has and that is ok.

[Karate Diop]

that’s still just another way of saying he never won in the playoffs without pippen.

Preach. That was a seriously long worded way to say Jordan couldn't get it done without Pippen.

Well James couldnt get it done without Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis. Nobody wins a championship by themself right? I like how James fans say Jordan couldnt get it done without Pippen like lebron james won a championship without another all star lol

I can't speak for others - but what you're saying is exactly what I'm saying.

Championships are team accomplishments.

Virtually every championship won was won with multiple all-time greats on the roster. The myth that Jordan was always able to lift his teammates to Olympus and didn't need help, is just that, a myth.

LeBron needed help too - that's why he had to leave Cleveland. Nothing wrong in admitting that, but for whatever reason Jordan Jockers don't want to...

[MavsDirk41]

Not like the last dance huh

Not really. The Last Dance was a documentary about the greatest player in league history winning his 6th NBA Championship with the team that drafted him.

The Decision was a cringey self-promoting infomercial about a player who couldn't win a championship for the team who drafted him, so he packed his bags to form a super team with two other all stars in a desperate bid to win his 1st NBA championship.

Kareem only has one title for the team that drafted him, so why was he considered the greatest / 2nd greatest ever to play?

Nobody is changing anybodys mind on who they think the goat is on this board. That i can be pretty confident in saying.