The Jalen Suggs Thread

[basketballRob]

Orlando is 12th in rebounding rate. Toronto played a very tired Orlando team.

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[pepe1991]

Orlando is 12th in rebounding rate. Toronto played a very tired Orlando team.

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All teams are tired at this stage. Look how Heat schedule looks from January 28th to today.

10 games in 18 days, two back to backs. 6 road games.

[basketballRob]

Orlando is 12th in rebounding rate. Toronto played a very tired Orlando team.

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All teams are tired at this stage. Look how Heat schedule looks from January 28th to today.

10 games in 18 days, two back to backs. 6 road games.

My point is if we weren't on a b2b, the game against Toronto would've looked completely different.

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[pepe1991]

Orlando is 12th in rebounding rate. Toronto played a very tired Orlando team.

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All teams are tired at this stage. Look how Heat schedule looks from January 28th to today.

10 games in 18 days, two back to backs. 6 road games.

My point is if we weren't on a b2b, the game against Toronto would've looked completely different.

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That's reality of nba and been that way since 82 games schedule was created.
Phil Jackson refered to those games as scheadule losses.
Sometimes you benefit from catching good team tired, sometimes you are victim of same schedule. That's why winning 70 games is that hard, regardless of your roster construction.

[JoshuaPotter]

Don't look too closely. If you base all your opnions on it like it's the basis of all your debates like others here, then you'd be questioning Paolo as good player or any part of our future with his -2.8 RAPTOR

Paolo hasn't been particularly impactful to winning basketball games this season. That's a fact. Most rookies aren't and he's not an exception.

But a person would be a bit foolish to judge a player...

Who was 19 years old when the season started
Is 52 games into his NBA career
Is just one year into his cost controlled, under market contract that has four years left on it

To someone who is...

25 years old
In his 6th season (which means five summers to improve)
Has the same weaknesses now that he had when he first arrived in the league
Is already on his second contract which pays more than he's worth
Only has 1 year left on said contract before he'll want a raise.

A person would be a bit foolish to compare those two players based on their RAPTOR ratings in 2023.

Thank you. I wanted to comment on what I felt was a bait post. Glad I waited.

I am not betting the farm on Raptor, but I do bet the farm on numbers. This is a league where players put balls in holes and prevent the other side from putting said same ball into their hole. So it is obvious by the end of the game the total number of balls in holes (statistically) is the winner 100% of the time.

That being said, Paolo is putting up inefficient numbers on the 5th worst team in the league right out the gate. I'm gonna look the other way.

Suggs (back on topic) on defense looks good and raptor confirms that its facts not feelings. His offense right now makes him a borderline detriment. This month though he is shooting very well from 3pt so far. So on paper if his shot stays on point he is going into his 3rd year potential minimum 3&D guy.

That's not the guy we are looking for, but it does allow us to cut G. Harris for what would then be a clear upgrade on defense while we play with our 2 new draft pick toys.

[drsd]

[Playmaker position is impossible to "fake" and mask. You either have person who can run offense or you don't.

p.s. this does not bode well for the Celts and really means Jamal Murray need health for the Nuggets to contend.

To the topic of Suggs: I am not sure I can say Suggs can lead an offense right now. This is why I am still a fan of starting Fultz. I just cannot accept that Suggs can be a positive asset on offense.


..

[fendilim]

[Playmaker position is impossible to "fake" and mask. You either have person who can run offense or you don't.

p.s. this does not bode well for the Celts and really means Jamal Murray need health for the Nuggets to contend.

To the topic of Suggs: I am not sure I can say Suggs can lead an offense right now. This is why I am still a fan of starting Fultz. I just cannot accept that Suggs can be a positive asset on offense.


..

suggs cant lead an offense.

Paolo, Franz and whoever we pick this year or acquire in a consolidation trade will.

[thelead]

If we're going to build the team around two wing stars (hopefully), I'm not sure you need or want a PG that will handle the ball 75% of the time. You don't need Chris Paul or Haliburton if you have LeBron or Luka or Tatum. Would I turn them down? No but we don't need that if we're really banking on Franz and Paolo. We need secondary playmaking, a guy that can bring the ball up the court, plays defense, and hits open shot.

[Skybox]

If we're going to build the team around two wing stars (hopefully), I'm not sure you need or want a PG that will handle the ball 75% of the time. You don't need Chris Paul or Haliburton if you have LeBron or Luka or Tatum. Would I turn them down? No but we don't need that if we're really banking on Franz and Paolo. We need secondary playmaking, a guy that can bring the ball up the court, plays defense, and hits open shot.

Disagree. While Franz and Paolo have shown they can muscle their way to half-court buckets at an elite level, it's a good way to wear them out and, IMO, it's showing in their recent play. They look downright weary and why wouldn't they? ANYBODY can be stopped eventually...having a high-level guard who is as much a threat to pull up from 3 as feed them on the fly will only make Franz & Paolo more dangerous and more likely to put up big numbers. Right now, much of their offense is directly attributable to their driving prowess, which is basically "I go, you go" make something out of nothing - a fantastic element of their games, critical in playoffs, but not sustainable or desirable for every game of their season.

...on a related note, I'd sure like to see Franz pull up from deep a little more, pump fake and drive is definitely his preferred move. I remember TRoss talking about what a great shooter Franz was when he first got a glimpse of him in his rookie camp. FVV and Suggs works here, on both ends...and, if Suggs continues to progress (like he already has been...), that's a very tough, balanced starting 5. Suggs might even end up off the bench, getting significant minutes and bringing waves of defensive energy to matchups...that's how I see Isaac in the frontcourt - moving around 3-5, depending on matchups, drawing guys like Tatum & Giannis in individual playoff matchups...just two defensive menaces to be deployed as needed. Suggs, could quite honestly, become a LOT more than a lockdown defensive specialist, but that's enough for now.

[VFX]

If we're going to build the team around two wing stars (hopefully), I'm not sure you need or want a PG that will handle the ball 75% of the time. You don't need Chris Paul or Haliburton if you have LeBron or Luka or Tatum. Would I turn them down? No but we don't need that if we're really banking on Franz and Paolo. We need secondary playmaking, a guy that can bring the ball up the court, plays defense, and hits open shot.

I agree with this for the most part.

However, my main grip is one of two things.

It's either Mosely not setting up plays for Paolo in a pick and roll, or its Orlando lacking the players necessary to run that successfully. Having Paolo drive to the basket from the top of the key in isolation doesn't work most of the time.

I'm not sure what the reason why it isn't run more often, if at all.

I'm also not quite sure I would put Franz on the same level as most playmaking point guards. He gets 3.5 assists per game.

[ogmagicfan]

If we're going to build the team around two wing stars (hopefully), I'm not sure you need or want a PG that will handle the ball 75% of the time. You don't need Chris Paul or Haliburton if you have LeBron or Luka or Tatum. Would I turn them down? No but we don't need that if we're really banking on Franz and Paolo. We need secondary playmaking, a guy that can bring the ball up the court, plays defense, and hits open shot.

Disagree. While Franz and Paolo have shown they can muscle their way to half-court buckets at an elite level, it's a good way to wear them out and, IMO, it's showing in their recent play. They look downright weary and why wouldn't they? ANYBODY can be stopped eventually...having a high-level guard who is as much a threat to pull up from 3 as feed them on the fly will only make Franz & Paolo more dangerous and more likely to put up big numbers. Right now, much of their offense is directly attributable to their driving prowess, which is basically "I go, you go" make something out of nothing - a fantastic element of their games, critical in playoffs, but not sustainable or desirable for every game of their season.

...on a related note, I'd sure like to see Franz pull up from deep a little more, pump fake and drive is definitely his preferred move. I remember TRoss talking about what a great shooter Franz was when he first got a glimpse of him in his rookie camp. FVV and Suggs works here, on both ends...and, if Suggs continues to progress (like he already has been...), that's a very tough, balanced starting 5. Suggs might even end up off the bench, getting significant minutes and bringing waves of defensive energy to matchups...that's how I see Isaac in the frontcourt - moving around 3-5, depending on matchups, drawing guys like Tatum & Giannis in individual playoff matchups...just two defensive menaces to be deployed as needed. Suggs, could quite honestly, become a LOT more than a lockdown defensive specialist, but that's enough for now.

Exactly this, and in a playoff series, where the level of intensity teams play with increases, exhaustion hits 10x harder.

[eyriq]

If we're going to build the team around two wing stars (hopefully), I'm not sure you need or want a PG that will handle the ball 75% of the time. You don't need Chris Paul or Haliburton if you have LeBron or Luka or Tatum. Would I turn them down? No but we don't need that if we're really banking on Franz and Paolo. We need secondary playmaking, a guy that can bring the ball up the court, plays defense, and hits open shot.

I'm going to agree with this. Two high usage players in the SL is enough, both of whom are playmakers. Compliment them with a floor general, a defensive specialist, and a rebounding floor stretching big and you've got a grind it out playoff designed nightmare matchup.

[RookieStar]

I know its the Suggs thread but based on all your posts, it got me thinking... remember Franz patented offensive move?

It was the "cut" Meaning he was moving without the ball and was in the right place at the right time to rewcieve the ball for an easy lay-in/dunk. How comeI don't see it anymore. IT's usually a Euro-drive/ step back 3 and etc?

[Knightro]

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[eyriq]

Why is a player that pushes the pace called a connector?

[basketballRob]

Why is a player that pushes the pace called a connector?

It's unselfish to throw the ball down court because you're possibly taking yourself out of the play.

Selfish players would hold the ball and hand it to a guard or walk the ball up the court and give yourself the opportunity to get an assist, bucket, or rebound.

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[eyriq]

Why is a player that pushes the pace called a connector?

It's unselfish to throw the ball down court because you're possibly taking yourself out of the play.

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Ah, that makes sense. He seems to have a very sophisticated understanding of the game.

[eyriq]

Looking at NBA 2K player archetypes. First impression, they have way too many. But interestingly, this is Suggs' group:

2-Way 3-Level Shot Creator
Paul George
Anthony Edwards
De’Anthony Melton
Kyle Lowry
Jalen Suggs
Davion Mitchell
Jae Crowder


Whereas here is Gary Harris:

3 & D Two Guard
Quentin Grimes
Gary Harris
Rodney McGruder

[Skybox]

Why is a player that pushes the pace called a connector?

It's unselfish to throw the ball down court because you're possibly taking yourself out of the play.

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Ah, that makes sense. He seems to have a very sophisticated understanding of the game.

He's a high level QB...if he could handle better, he'd be PG. Maybe someday

Either way, I try not to blurt it out too often, but I think that, ultimately, he'll be top 4 in his class (along with Franz)