Poll: Public sees MJ as GOAT

[70sFan]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

I mean, is it better to just stop asking questions? Is such question forbidden or what? If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

It's shocking to me that people think it's worse to ask what makes Jordan GOAT than accepting "Jordan = GOAT" opinion with no argumentation.

[The Explorer]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

I mean, is it better to just stop asking questions? Is such question forbidden or what? If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

It's shocking to me that people think it's worse to ask what makes Jordan GOAT than accepting "Jordan = GOAT" opinion with no argumentation.

The question is actually 'what impact metrics show Jordan as a GOAT candidate?', which along with the first post, implies the questioner believes Jordan may not belong in the discussion as even a candidate.

If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

There are some questions that are foolish and shocking for people to even ask. Asking if there are metrics that make Jordan a candidate for GOAT is akin to asking, 'do humans breathe air'.

[MavsDirk41]

Yes yes Mavsdirk. Another very compelling argument by you.

And what exactly have you added other than a crappy comment?

I was being sincere. Do you not think the arguments you have been putting up are compelling?

Everybody has their right to an opinion and i share mine. Doesnt mean everyone has to agree with me. Nobody is gonna change anybodys opinion on here regardless. There will never be a consensus goat for the nba.

[MavsDirk41]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

I mean, is it better to just stop asking questions? Is such question forbidden or what? If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

It's shocking to me that people think it's worse to ask what makes Jordan GOAT than accepting "Jordan = GOAT" opinion with no argumentation.

I like the term metric lol…..its basketball man. I have two eyes that watch basketball. How about “who is the best player you have ever seen” other than trying to use terms like metrics and analytics. What are those people trying to prove? I dont get it.

[Jfh20]

Lebron thinks MJ is the GOAT and spent most of his life modeling himself and chasing after that man, he wears 23 for a reason. 6 championships, 6 finals MVPs, 10x scoring champ, 5 MVPs, a NCAA championship, even 2x dunk champ.

Lebron is great but I don’t see how anybody besides the biggest stans could put him over MJ, Lebron being personally nicer and more socially conscious isn’t something I factor.

being nicer also doesnt help in the winning department.... hence why lebron has more losses than wins... and MJ = undefeated, with that said though, most of jordans success came from his talent and skillset.... the persona was a slight contribution to it.

[ropjhk]

Lebron thinks MJ is the GOAT and spent most of his life modeling himself and chasing after that man, he wears 23 for a reason. 6 championships, 6 finals MVPs, 10x scoring champ, 5 MVPs, a NCAA championship, even 2x dunk champ.

Lebron is great but I don’t see how anybody besides the biggest stans could put him over MJ, Lebron being personally nicer and more socially conscious isn’t something I factor.

being nicer also doesnt help in the winning department.... hence why lebron has more losses than wins... and MJ = undefeated, with that said though, most of jordans success came from his talent and skillset.... the persona was a slight contribution to it.

Being nice can work for certain leadership styles in certain situations. Other times you have to be a bit cruel. MJ was hard on his teammates but you can't deny that he generally got the most out of them. Leadership is another category for greatness and it's something that personal stats won't reveal.

[70sFan]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

I mean, is it better to just stop asking questions? Is such question forbidden or what? If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

It's shocking to me that people think it's worse to ask what makes Jordan GOAT than accepting "Jordan = GOAT" opinion with no argumentation.

The question is actually 'what impact metrics show Jordan as a GOAT candidate?', which along with the first post, implies the questioner believes Jordan may not belong in the discussion as even a candidate.

If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

There are some questions that are foolish and shocking for people to even ask. Asking if there are metrics that make Jordan a candidate for GOAT is akin to asking, 'do humans breathe air'.

Sometimes asking obvious questions is very important. It's quite telling that you see such question as an attack on Jordan, instead just one person being interested in arguments for Jordan.

[70sFan]

Lebron thinks MJ is the GOAT and spent most of his life modeling himself and chasing after that man, he wears 23 for a reason. 6 championships, 6 finals MVPs, 10x scoring champ, 5 MVPs, a NCAA championship, even 2x dunk champ.

Lebron is great but I don’t see how anybody besides the biggest stans could put him over MJ, Lebron being personally nicer and more socially conscious isn’t something I factor.

being nicer also doesnt help in the winning department.... hence why lebron has more losses than wins... and MJ = undefeated, with that said though, most of jordans success came from his talent and skillset.... the persona was a slight contribution to it.

Being nice can work for certain leadership styles in certain situations. Other times you have to be a bit cruel. MJ was hard on his teammates but you can't deny that he generally got the most out of them. Leadership is another category for greatness and it's something that personal stats won't reveal.

I get that sometimes a leader can't be "nice", but it doesn't mean it's acceptable to punch his teammate in scrimmage...

[70sFan]

The PC is notorious for being pro Lebron.

Top post there now: What impact metric show Jordan as GOAT?
Op being: Do any?
And there are actually people there trying to argue for it.

I mean i have Jordan as #1 but i would never try and argue that Lebron has no stats that show him as #1

I mean, is it better to just stop asking questions? Is such question forbidden or what? If the answer is obvious, then answer it and everyone will be fine.

It's shocking to me that people think it's worse to ask what makes Jordan GOAT than accepting "Jordan = GOAT" opinion with no argumentation.

I like the term metric lol…..its basketball man. I have two eyes that watch basketball. How about “who is the best player you have ever seen” other than trying to use terms like metrics and analytics. What are those people trying to prove? I dont get it.

You have an extremely talented mind if you can judge who's the better player by casually watching games. Are you aware how much action each player is involved in during a game? Do you follow closely all 9 players without the ball at once?

Stats aren't everything and you definitely can't talk about basketball without watching games, but quantifying a lot of things that happen on basketball court help us understand everything in much closer details. Your approach isn't any better than someone picking players by PER or other trash stat.

[ropjhk]

being nicer also doesnt help in the winning department.... hence why lebron has more losses than wins... and MJ = undefeated, with that said though, most of jordans success came from his talent and skillset.... the persona was a slight contribution to it.

Being nice can work for certain leadership styles in certain situations. Other times you have to be a bit cruel. MJ was hard on his teammates but you can't deny that he generally got the most out of them. Leadership is another category for greatness and it's something that personal stats won't reveal.

I get that sometimes a leader can't be "nice", but it doesn't mean it's acceptable to punch his teammate in scrimmage...

Sure, but how much does that incident with Kerr affect Jordan's GOAT candidacy? I'd say not much when compared to the boost he earns for having gotten the best out of his teammates.

[70sFan]

Being nice can work for certain leadership styles in certain situations. Other times you have to be a bit cruel. MJ was hard on his teammates but you can't deny that he generally got the most out of them. Leadership is another category for greatness and it's something that personal stats won't reveal.

I get that sometimes a leader can't be "nice", but it doesn't mean it's acceptable to punch his teammate in scrimmage...

Sure, but how much does that incident with Kerr affect Jordan's GOAT candidacy? I'd say not much when compared to the boost he earns for having gotten the best out of his teammates.

If you want to consider things like leadership, then based on what we know (and we know very little about such things), Jordan doesn't touch someone like Bill Russell in that regard.

[ropjhk]

I get that sometimes a leader can't be "nice", but it doesn't mean it's acceptable to punch his teammate in scrimmage...

Sure, but how much does that incident with Kerr affect Jordan's GOAT candidacy? I'd say not much when compared to the boost he earns for having gotten the best out of his teammates.

If you want to consider things like leadership, then based on what we know (and we know very little about such things), Jordan doesn't touch someone like Bill Russell in that regard.

Jordan doesn't come 1st in all categories, but there are many categories to consider and Jordan IMO has the best overall rankings across all categories.

[JordansBulls]

A lot has to do with he dominated his era more. Steph came in after Lebron and beat him head to head and has as many titles as him without switching teams and stacking the deck.

[Cavsfansince84]

A lot has to do with he dominated his era more. Steph came in after Lebron and beat him head to head and has as many titles as him without switching teams and stacking the deck.

So stacking the deck as you put it only counts when a player has switched teams? What exactly would you say the Warriors were doing after winning 73 games, losing a game 7 then going out to recruit the 3rd best player in the league? Did winning a title then losing a game 7 mean that the deck was stacked against them?

[Cavsfansince84]

LeBron is the Sam Snead of basketball, while MJ is the Tiger.

Did you mean Jack Nicklaus here? Sam Snead was great but not really considered a top 5 golfer of all time and played a long time ago.

[cam24thomas]

LeBron is the Sam Snead of basketball, while MJ is the Tiger.

Did you mean Jack Nicklaus here? Sam Snead was great but not really considered a top 5 golfer of all time and played a long time ago.

Just going by what Tiger Woods said the other day. Tiger compared LeBron to Sam Snead.
Tiger = Jordan
Nicklaus = Kareem
Snead = LeBron

[JordansBulls]

A lot has to do with he dominated his era more. Steph came in after Lebron and beat him head to head and has as many titles as him without switching teams and stacking the deck.

So stacking the deck as you put it only counts when a player has switched teams? What exactly would you say the Warriors were doing after winning 73 games, losing a game 7 then going out to recruit the 3rd best player in the league? Did winning a title then losing a game 7 mean that the deck was stacked against them?

Switching teams joining two other top 10 players in the league. Lebron did that in 2011 and 2015 and then joined another top 5 player in AD in 2020 including 2021 with Russell Westbrook. Steph only had another top 5 player once.
Guys who are GOATS when for the franchise that drafted them and turn them into a dynasty. Montana, Brady, MJ, Ruth to name a few. Franchise that never won prior to them.

[Jfh20]

being nicer also doesnt help in the winning department.... hence why lebron has more losses than wins... and MJ = undefeated, with that said though, most of jordans success came from his talent and skillset.... the persona was a slight contribution to it.

Being nice can work for certain leadership styles in certain situations. Other times you have to be a bit cruel. MJ was hard on his teammates but you can't deny that he generally got the most out of them. Leadership is another category for greatness and it's something that personal stats won't reveal.

I get that sometimes a leader can't be "nice", but it doesn't mean it's acceptable to punch his teammate in scrimmage...

its never acceptable to punch ppl.... but in the heat of the moment in competition, it happens.... just look at this offseason and the GSW situation with dray/poole.... egos collide and **** happens. People are always nitpicking reasons to hate jordan and make him look like the bad guy.... lebron is the favored "persona" these days.. hes more outspoken, fits the woke narrative.... while jordan generally stays quiet behind the scenes and just donates money to charitys.

[LakersLegacy]

MJ obviously the better closer. LeBron very well could be the better player for one of the quarters. But not all 4.

[dc]

A lot has to do with he dominated his era more. Steph came in after Lebron and beat him head to head and has as many titles as him without switching teams and stacking the deck.

So stacking the deck as you put it only counts when a player has switched teams? What exactly would you say the Warriors were doing after winning 73 games, losing a game 7 then going out to recruit the 3rd best player in the league? Did winning a title then losing a game 7 mean that the deck was stacked against them?

Just as footnote in all of this: people forget that the Spurs coming off their 67 win season (franchise record) were also recruiting KD that summer. Lebron and the Warriors weren't the only ones trying to stack teams. IIRC, Pop and co. were also one of the teams who went to the Hamptons and had the whole sit down with him.