Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal
AEnigma wrote:The pace now is slower than it was for the first five years of Jordan’s career. Basically Wilt level!
homecourtloss wrote:thebigbird wrote:ardee wrote:
The very first thread started as "LeBron's athletic decline from Cleveland to Miami" I think in like early 2012. Some comments that he looked like he was on the wrong side of his career and the decline was starting.
Imagine telling the people in that thread picking nits with his ability that he'd hit like 4 more peaks after that and still be averaging 30 ppg 11 years later
I don't think any player EVER in ANY sport (besides Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo) have surpassed their already high career expectations by THIS much.
June 1, 2011.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1116453&start=60
5 years after this thread, he comes back down 3-1 against Golden State.
7 years after this thread, he goes on his absurd 2018 playoff run.
9 years after this thread, he wins FMVP.
12 years after this thread, averaging 30/8/7 on 59% TS.
Some absolute gold from the thread:LuckedO wrote:He ALREADY is in decline, considering he's 26 yet not even as good as he was at 24 & 25. His body has completely fallen off. Now, he's improved significantly as a jump shooter to compensate for some of that, not to mention form a team where he doesn't have to carry a HUGE burden, so he'll still manage to be a great player for a few more years. But his prime is done and over with.Rupert Murdoch wrote:
Malone's final appearance on the All-NBA First team was 1998-1999. He had logged 41662 minutes up until that time. So if Lebron is like Malone, he will have about five elite seasons left if he continues to log 3000 minutes a year. But Malone had an insane work ethic which played a major role in the man being so durable and in tip-top shape late into his career. I don't know if Lebron has that kind of work ethic.Earl Sweatshirt wrote:When he hits 29 or 30, I think we'll see him tail off a bit. His game is far too dependent upon his athleticism for him to maintain this level of play into his early and mid thirties.crazy_me_87 wrote:i think the karl malone comparison is the closest one because of weight and strenght
that would be sick
but lets say he is at 60% of his athletic and jumping abbility's when he turns 32 wich would be at the rate Kobe is at
a lebron at 60% jumping would still be like a prime Paul Pierce witch way better defence and passing
he is just too strong to "hope" he will fall of fast before he's 34 so i would say he has 6/7 Superstar seasons in him after that he could be around 21 , 6 ,8 (he won't lose his passing)LuckedO wrote:
Nothing I said there was based on stats. The difference in LeBron's athleticism this season compared to the previous 7 seasons is night and day. People just can't accept it because they can't wrap their heads around a 26 year old regressing this significantly. More importantly, they associate winning with playing BETTER.
LeBron's not even 90% the player he was the last 2 seasons impact-wise.ERRDAY3 wrote:Physically he's already in the early stages of declining but thats nothing out of the ordinary as a player he still has about 4 to 5 years left.
What’s absolutely hilarious is that the very same people who made the argument that he only does what he does because of his athletic abilities were the same people who said that when those athletic abilities go in decline (and they have—burst, speed, leaping, explosiveness, etc.) that he would rapidly fall off a cliff because he “didn’t have the same skills as Jordan or Kobe,” “no footwork,” “no moves,” etc., etc.
Now, a decade+ after that athletic decline, in a completely different league that values different things, he’s still a top 10+ player averaging 30 on 59% TS while being top 3/top 6/top 8/top 12 in RPM/RAPTOR WAR/EPM/Luck adjusted RAPM.
Those people who made those arguments have moved away from them and now try to portray this as LeBron simply playing “lots of games and step padding.“
Taj FTW wrote:It's funny. I'm a DIEHARD bulls fan. I shouldn't like Lebron at all. The reason I started liking him is because of the completely asinine arguments people would use to try and denigrate him. It got so old to see. It started on PSD way back in the day when that place was relevant. It was mainly Kobe fans. I didn't like Lebron, but I found myself making arguments to defend him, just because they were logical from a basketball standpoint.
Anybody else start liking him for the same reason? Because you got tired of the non-stop irrational hate for him?
Taj FTW wrote:It's funny. I'm a DIEHARD bulls fan. I shouldn't like Lebron at all. The reason I started liking him is because of the completely asinine arguments people would use to try and denigrate him. It got so old to see. It started on PSD way back in the day when that place was relevant. It was mainly Kobe fans. I didn't like Lebron, but I found myself making arguments to defend him, just because they were logical from a basketball standpoint.
Anybody else start liking him for the same reason? Because you got tired of the non-stop irrational hate for him?
Heej wrote:homecourtloss wrote:thebigbird wrote:June 1, 2011.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1116453&start=60
5 years after this thread, he comes back down 3-1 against Golden State.
7 years after this thread, he goes on his absurd 2018 playoff run.
9 years after this thread, he wins FMVP.
12 years after this thread, averaging 30/8/7 on 59% TS.
Some absolute gold from the thread:
What’s absolutely hilarious is that the very same people who made the argument that he only does what he does because of his athletic abilities were the same people who said that when those athletic abilities go in decline (and they have—burst, speed, leaping, explosiveness, etc.) that he would rapidly fall off a cliff because he “didn’t have the same skills as Jordan or Kobe,” “no footwork,” “no moves,” etc., etc.
Now, a decade+ after that athletic decline, in a completely different league that values different things, he’s still a top 10+ player averaging 30 on 59% TS while being top 3/top 6/top 8/top 12 in RPM/RAPTOR WAR/EPM/Luck adjusted RAPM.
Those people who made those arguments have moved away from them and now try to portray this as LeBron simply playing “lots of games and step padding.“
Lmfaoooo that's so true. I forgot that's really what they evolved into. I can't tell you how many people I see now parroting that nonsense in a sad attempt to downplay it. I mean "if anyone can do it" why hasn't your favorite player done it?
I remember during those decline discussions trying to tell people that the true athletic freaks just have a different physical aging curve than most. Vince was still getting up there on dunks easily even in the twilight years before his retirement. They just don't age the same. LeBron's just the first one to have slowed down his aging while rapidly improving his skillset to such an extent. And it's why his second Cleveland stint ended up being his peak while most career arcs would've seen him peaking in Miami
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
"It's 23 of the most important games of my career, for a regular season," James said Sunday before playing in a record-tying 19th All-Star Game. "It's the type of mindset that I have, and I hope Anthony Davis will have, coming back off the break."
nzahir wrote:Any news on Lebron's hand/finger?
Hoping its not actually injured
His 3 point jumper has already been broken this year, don't need it any worse
We need to win 2/3 games to get in the play in, just hoping we can get a 7th or 8th seed at least
homecourtloss wrote:thebigbird wrote:ardee wrote:
The very first thread started as "LeBron's athletic decline from Cleveland to Miami" I think in like early 2012. Some comments that he looked like he was on the wrong side of his career and the decline was starting.
Imagine telling the people in that thread picking nits with his ability that he'd hit like 4 more peaks after that and still be averaging 30 ppg 11 years later
I don't think any player EVER in ANY sport (besides Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo) have surpassed their already high career expectations by THIS much.
June 1, 2011.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1116453&start=60
5 years after this thread, he comes back down 3-1 against Golden State.
7 years after this thread, he goes on his absurd 2018 playoff run.
9 years after this thread, he wins FMVP.
12 years after this thread, averaging 30/8/7 on 59% TS.
Some absolute gold from the thread:LuckedO wrote:He ALREADY is in decline, considering he's 26 yet not even as good as he was at 24 & 25. His body has completely fallen off. Now, he's improved significantly as a jump shooter to compensate for some of that, not to mention form a team where he doesn't have to carry a HUGE burden, so he'll still manage to be a great player for a few more years. But his prime is done and over with.Rupert Murdoch wrote:
Malone's final appearance on the All-NBA First team was 1998-1999. He had logged 41662 minutes up until that time. So if Lebron is like Malone, he will have about five elite seasons left if he continues to log 3000 minutes a year. But Malone had an insane work ethic which played a major role in the man being so durable and in tip-top shape late into his career. I don't know if Lebron has that kind of work ethic.Earl Sweatshirt wrote:When he hits 29 or 30, I think we'll see him tail off a bit. His game is far too dependent upon his athleticism for him to maintain this level of play into his early and mid thirties.crazy_me_87 wrote:i think the karl malone comparison is the closest one because of weight and strenght
that would be sick
but lets say he is at 60% of his athletic and jumping abbility's when he turns 32 wich would be at the rate Kobe is at
a lebron at 60% jumping would still be like a prime Paul Pierce witch way better defence and passing
he is just too strong to "hope" he will fall of fast before he's 34 so i would say he has 6/7 Superstar seasons in him after that he could be around 21 , 6 ,8 (he won't lose his passing)LuckedO wrote:
Nothing I said there was based on stats. The difference in LeBron's athleticism this season compared to the previous 7 seasons is night and day. People just can't accept it because they can't wrap their heads around a 26 year old regressing this significantly. More importantly, they associate winning with playing BETTER.
LeBron's not even 90% the player he was the last 2 seasons impact-wise.ERRDAY3 wrote:Physically he's already in the early stages of declining but thats nothing out of the ordinary as a player he still has about 4 to 5 years left.
What’s absolutely hilarious is that the very same people who made the argument that he only does what he does because of his athletic abilities were the same people who said that when those athletic abilities go in decline (and they have—burst, speed, leaping, explosiveness, etc.) that he would rapidly fall off a cliff because he “didn’t have the same skills as Jordan or Kobe,” “no footwork,” “no moves,” etc., etc.
Now, a decade+ after that athletic decline, in a completely different league that values different things, he’s still a top 10+ player averaging 30 on 59% TS while being top 3/top 6/top 8/top 12 in RPM/RAPTOR WAR/EPM/Luck adjusted RAPM.
Those people who made those arguments have moved away from them and now try to portray this as LeBron simply playing “lots of games and step padding.“
Taj FTW wrote:It's funny. I'm a DIEHARD bulls fan. I shouldn't like Lebron at all. The reason I started liking him is because of the completely asinine arguments people would use to try and denigrate him. It got so old to see. It started on PSD way back in the day when that place was relevant. It was mainly Kobe fans. I didn't like Lebron, but I found myself making arguments to defend him, just because they were logical from a basketball standpoint.
Anybody else start liking him for the same reason? Because you got tired of the non-stop irrational hate for him?
) Hate is a funny thing. Especially, irrational hatred. It makes you look like a fool and you don't even care! It's been an absolute pleasure to watch this guy play basketball the last 20 years and I actually do feel a bit of sadness for the idiots who have spent it hating on him, instead of appreciating greatness. They really and truly missed out. 
AEnigma wrote:Never had animosity toward Lebron, but the effect he had on people who hated him certainly made me appreciate him more.
Similar story with the NFL. I know a lot of people hate Brady, but I ended up rooting for him just because of how annoying the Peyton/Montana arguments became. Anyone who takes a position that these rankings have some eternal divine rule to them deserves to have that shaken whenever possible. Same will be true of Mahomes now: upward climb for him, but he became the league’s top quarterback much faster than Brady did, so the pace is there.
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
