Knicks trade for Josh Hart

[robillionaire]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

[KnixinSix]

When Spagnuolo was a DC for the Giants when he didn't have enough of the right pieces his defense looked atrocious . However when he did it looked magnificent.

In a way this is kind of a similar deal. Hart is the Knicks Jackrabbit. He brings in a critical high flying wing defender which the Knicks sorely needed to really execute this defensive style that requires a lot of intensity and energy throughout 4 quarters.

Last night Nets were just on fire from 3 and many were not wide open looks though a few were. They put the clamps on them hard though in the 2nd half. That was a very different ebb and flow than the 'normal' build a double digit lead and have it collapse in the 2nd half because our defenders begin to tire out.

[HarthorneWingo]

Highlights of what's to come

Watch on YouTube

[ctorres]

Are Quickley and Hart gonna find their way to the starting lineup by the end of the season?

[8516knicks]

Are Quickley and Hart gonna find their way to the starting lineup by the end of the season?

There may be too much emphasis on being in the starting lineup vs. having a good balance between the first and 2nd units and players who fit on both who can "plug" in when needed to shore up either unit during the flux of a game.

For example, if our starters "lose" by 5 pts to the other team, but our 2nd unit "wins" by 10 pts, we should still be happy campers.

Currently, it looks like we have 2 guys who play around 40 min - JB and Randle and then there are the solely 2nd unit guys like Hartenstein, Sims and Obi (except now as Sims temporarily filling in for Mitch).

IG, Grimes, (even RJ) and Hart more fluid in that they can bridge playing both units much of the time, though RJ starts and Hart is shoring up the 2nd unit.

It's more important who plays at the end when the game's on the line.

[HarthorneWingo]

Are Quickley and Hart gonna find their way to the starting lineup by the end of the season?

There may be too much emphasis on being in the starting lineup vs. having a good balance between the first and 2nd units and players who fit on both who can "plug" in when needed to shore up either unit during the flux of a game.

For example, if our starters "lose" by 5 pts to the other team, but our 2nd unit "wins" by 10 pts, we should still be happy campers.

Currently, it looks like we have 2 guys who play around 40 min - JB and Randle and then there are the solely 2nd unit guys like Hartenstein, Sims and Obi (except now as Sims temporarily filling in for Mitch).

IG, Grimes, (even RJ) and Hart more fluid in that they can bridge playing both units much of the time, though RJ starts and Hart is shoring up the 2nd unit.

It's more important who plays at the end when the game's on the line.

Hart is a much better fit than RJ who doesn't mesh with Randle well, hence the staggered minutes.

I think Grimes with come out of his funk when we get back to work on Friday. His mere presence on offense automatically helps space the floor ... plus, that defense and ball movement.

[thebuzzardman]

Highlights of what's to come

Watch on YouTube

Couple of thoughts and observations.

Hart rebounds like a guard version of Dennis Rodman.
Athletic, just wants the ball, really understands positioning, complete confidence he'll get the ball, will tap the ball to himself or teammates. I mean, an approximation.

I was going to say "Hart would seem to rank with the great rebounding guards" but off the top of my head I could name like 10 that are better. Then, stats wise, for his career, Hart is sitting at 6 per game, which isn't bad.

I think he's just a cut below the great rebounding guards.
So I tried google and came up with the two statmuse lists.

Hart is on one of them for great rebounding seasons. It's this one. I think his minutes and role will remove this season from the list.

A few quibbles with the lists. Luka is listed on both the SG and PG lists. I don't care, because I was looking for guards. Hondo is listed and he played SF too. Same for McGrady. Then again, so has Hart.

When Hart averages 32 mpg, he's going to get 7 to 8 rebounds per game.

The big rebounding numbers by guards are seasons where the guards averaged 40 mpg, in general.
None of this is pace adjusted, so Kidd's numbers might be more impressive than Giddy's or even Oscar Robertson's, rebounding wise, as an example.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-per-game-in-a-season-by-a-shooting-guard

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-average-in-a-single-season-by-a-point-guard


I was surprised Bonzi Wells wasn't on the list. His numbers not as high as I remembered his effectiveness.
I thought Michael Ray Richardson might be on the list; his 3 Knick years he rebounded at about a 6.7 rpg rate, so just missed.

[8516knicks]

Highlights of what's to come

Watch on YouTube

Couple of thoughts and observations.

Hart rebounds like a guard version of Dennis Rodman.
Athletic, just wants the ball, really understands positioning, complete confidence he'll get the ball, will tap the ball to himself or teammates. I mean, an approximation.

I was going to say "Hart would seem to rank with the great rebounding guards" but off the top of my head I could name like 10 that are better. Then, stats wise, for his career, Hart is sitting at 6 per game, which isn't bad.

I think he's just a cut below the great rebounding guards.
So I tried google and came up with the two statmuse lists.

Hart is on one of them for great rebounding seasons. It's this one. I think his minutes and role will remove this season from the list.

A few quibbles with the lists. Luka is listed on both the SG and PG lists. I don't care, because I was looking for guards. Hondo is listed and he played SF too. Same for McGrady. Then again, so has Hart.

When Hart averages 32 mpg, he's going to get 7 to 8 rebounds per game.

The big rebounding numbers by guards are seasons where the guards averaged 40 mpg, in general.
None of this is pace adjusted, so Kidd's numbers might be more impressive than Giddy's or even Oscar Robertson's, rebounding wise, as an example.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-per-game-in-a-season-by-a-shooting-guard

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-average-in-a-single-season-by-a-point-guard


I was surprised Bonzi Wells wasn't on the list. His numbers not as high as I remembered his effectiveness.
I thought Michael Ray Richardson might be on the list; his 3 Knick years he rebounded at about a 6.7 rpg rate, so just missed.

Fatty Lever most surprised me. Also Harden at Houston. And where was Rondo?

[8516knicks]

Top 5 seasons rebounding by a shooting guard were Philly (college ball) guard. And Hart is a Philly guard also.

[Iron Mantis]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

[robillionaire]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

the many people who were criticizing the trade I guess

[Iron Mantis]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

the many people who were criticizing the trade I guess

Ah I see.

They really aren't "deniers" unless they are hating on him.

What you describe is more like doubters: folks who didn't watch Hart play before and who don't believe in the FO's ability to make a good trade.

Any who doubted that trade must be elated that Hart is playing worth more than the value of that 1st rounder.

[8516knicks]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

I'm guessing what's meant are those against the trade BEFORE we saw what he could do for us.

[robillionaire]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

I'm guessing what's meant are those against the trade BEFORE we saw what he could do for us.

yeah pretty much

although I'm sure there are still some stragglers who want the pick back

[thebuzzardman]

Highlights of what's to come

Watch on YouTube

Couple of thoughts and observations.

Hart rebounds like a guard version of Dennis Rodman.
Athletic, just wants the ball, really understands positioning, complete confidence he'll get the ball, will tap the ball to himself or teammates. I mean, an approximation.

I was going to say "Hart would seem to rank with the great rebounding guards" but off the top of my head I could name like 10 that are better. Then, stats wise, for his career, Hart is sitting at 6 per game, which isn't bad.

I think he's just a cut below the great rebounding guards.
So I tried google and came up with the two statmuse lists.

Hart is on one of them for great rebounding seasons. It's this one. I think his minutes and role will remove this season from the list.

A few quibbles with the lists. Luka is listed on both the SG and PG lists. I don't care, because I was looking for guards. Hondo is listed and he played SF too. Same for McGrady. Then again, so has Hart.

When Hart averages 32 mpg, he's going to get 7 to 8 rebounds per game.

The big rebounding numbers by guards are seasons where the guards averaged 40 mpg, in general.
None of this is pace adjusted, so Kidd's numbers might be more impressive than Giddy's or even Oscar Robertson's, rebounding wise, as an example.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-per-game-in-a-season-by-a-shooting-guard

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-average-in-a-single-season-by-a-point-guard


I was surprised Bonzi Wells wasn't on the list. His numbers not as high as I remembered his effectiveness.
I thought Michael Ray Richardson might be on the list; his 3 Knick years he rebounded at about a 6.7 rpg rate, so just missed.

Fatty Lever most surprised me. Also Harden at Houston. And where was Rondo?

They went with statistically highest seasons, with 8 being the floor.

Rondo had 7.5 a few times.

There are other great rebounding guards who just didn't hit 8 per, in a season.

[Meat]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

the many people who were criticizing the trade I guess

wait now, so folks should not be critical? is that your hill

[robillionaire]

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

the many people who were criticizing the trade I guess

wait now, so folks should not be critical? is that your hill

yeah that’s what it is dude

[8516knicks]

genuinely curious...

Who or what are "Hart deniers"?

Why aren't they "feeling so good"?

The Knicks are winning and there's a lot of good energy surrounding the team.

the many people who were criticizing the trade I guess

wait now, so folks should not be critical? is that your hill

I'm guessing he means they should not be stupid.

[Nazrmohamed]

Hart deniers not feeling so good....

There are Hart deniers? Maybe they thought he was not enough or a big enough move but I think most respect his game. This was a solid trade deadline if your goal was to keep most of your young assets together, build on what we have and add somebody who can come in and help to that effect. I myself wanted more of a guy who could uproot the starting lineup and shake things up but this option was never " do it or bust" for me. Even if all we did was trend between the 6th to 4rth seed, compete in the playoffs and lose, I would've still been. Happy with that result. But I rather have done a bigger move now before RJs extension fully kicks in. I wanted Anunobi to be fully transparent but in hindsight the price tag was just massive. What they wanted seemed more than what Dallas had to pay for Kyrie and minus the antics Kyrie puts teams through you could build around that level of talent.

[robillionaire]

the many people who were criticizing the trade I guess

wait now, so folks should not be critical? is that your hill

I'm guessing he means they should not be stupid.

I wouldn’t go so far to insult people like that, especially since it’s it’s only been three games and he’s shooting out of his mind

My overall point was that Hart is looking good, the secondary aspect was half-joking/banter that people who were critical of the deal are getting nervous that they might be wrong (as iron mantis pointed out, some would indeed be glad to be proven wrong if it’s good for the Knicks, yet we all know others would rather be right in their opinion even if it’s to the detriment of the team, and still yet others just trash everything the Knicks do no matter what, let’s not be naive here)

it was a very pointless comment that I made a week ago mostly to compliment Hart’s hot start and spark further conversation about the trade with the new information we have. Surprised at the defensiveness about it