Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett?

Moderators: bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285, Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake

Who has the higher peak?

Jimmy Butler
20
23%
Kevin Garnett
67
77%
 
Total votes: 87

dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 50,210
And1: 27,113
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#41 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:51 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:no, i actually think in the future, it will be widely understood that numbers dont mean very much for the time period of 2018-2023 or however long the players and owners let this style of play persist. teenagers understand that there was more defense being played during kobes peak than now


Defense was more impactful in lower scoring.... there's more defense played today, meaning more players are working harder defensively now than then.

Ill partially agree. defense REQUIRES more hard work than it did in the past, thats why the scoring is so high. teams do not have the will to play it on a nightly basis. the gap betweeen whats occurring on the floor vs what teams are capable of doing on the defensive end is just massive in comparison to any other era of the sport. Teams dont practice or prepare for opponents anymore, they just try to fine tune their principles, which they will eventually abandon in the playoffs based on opponent. team doctors and players are shocked if a team wants to practice 5 times a month now outside of film study. The raptors let some people watch practices for local coaching development, and we are all floored at how mild they are. they might as well be in a party chat on XBOX and talk about the game while they play COD, and they were doing this in the year we won the title even.


Practice was never a big thing. These teams play 82 games, plus preseason, plus the playoffs.

And teams have never focused on defense outside of big playoff matchups. The bigger change is that everyone today is involved in the offense. it used to be teams were basically playing games of 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, hell sometimes it was just one on one back and fourth. Today you have 5 guys guarding 5 guys with switches, rotations, and even teams that do more of an iso heavy set...everyone is still involved. IF teams there were teams capable of doing this 30 years ago, they'd have run teams off the floor scoring. Old rules or not.
User avatar
Grahf
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,773
And1: 1,969
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: Link wears Celtic green!
   

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#42 » by Grahf » Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:53 pm

Comparing stats without adjusting for era, SMH

2004 Average Points per game: 93
2022 Average Points per Game: 110

2004 Teams that averaged 100 points per game: 2
2022 Teams that averaged 100 points per game: 30

In 2022, the Thunder had the worst offense in the NBA, scoring 103 PPG. That number would've made them the second highest scoring team in 2004. Inflate KG's offensive numbers by about 20%, then see who looks better statistically.
jasonxxx102
Analyst
Posts: 3,444
And1: 3,571
Joined: Feb 13, 2014

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#43 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:55 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Defense was more impactful in lower scoring.... there's more defense played today, meaning more players are working harder defensively now than then.

Ill partially agree. defense REQUIRES more hard work than it did in the past, thats why the scoring is so high. teams do not have the will to play it on a nightly basis. the gap betweeen whats occurring on the floor vs what teams are capable of doing on the defensive end is just massive in comparison to any other era of the sport. Teams dont practice or prepare for opponents anymore, they just try to fine tune their principles, which they will eventually abandon in the playoffs based on opponent. team doctors and players are shocked if a team wants to practice 5 times a month now outside of film study. The raptors let some people watch practices for local coaching development, and we are all floored at how mild they are. they might as well be in a party chat on XBOX and talk about the game while they play COD, and they were doing this in the year we won the title even.


Practice was never a big thing. These teams play 82 games, plus preseason, plus the playoffs.

And teams have never focused on defense outside of big playoff matchups. The bigger change is that everyone today is involved in the offense. it used to be teams were basically playing games of 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, hell sometimes it was just one on one back and fourth. Today you have 5 guys guarding 5 guys with switches, rotations, and even teams that do more of an iso heavy set...everyone is still involved. IF teams there were teams capable of doing this 30 years ago, they'd have run teams off the floor scoring. Old rules or not.


90s basketball was absolutely brutal in terms of stagnation. Every game was just "throw the ball into the post and everyone stand around". You'd be lucky if there was a backside cut lol

Oh and don't even get me started on 2000s hero ball.......

That's why I can't understand why people complain so much about the game today. There is so much more complexity when it comes to offensive scheme it's objectively better. I guess unless you really like watching 4 guys stand around for the whole game
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Ambrose
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,335
And1: 5,141
Joined: Jul 05, 2014

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#44 » by Ambrose » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:01 pm

As a resilient playoff #1 option scorer? Sure. Overall, no.
hardenASG13 wrote:They are better than the teammates of SGA, Giannis, Luka, Brunson, Curry etc. so far.
~Regarding Denver Nuggets, May 2025
User avatar
Ckay
Head Coach
Posts: 6,686
And1: 8,935
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Location: going going, back back, to Cali Cali
 

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#45 » by Ckay » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:06 pm

To Butler.
User avatar
BodieB
Veteran
Posts: 2,817
And1: 3,684
Joined: Mar 31, 2011
     

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#46 » by BodieB » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:06 pm

Jables wrote:In 50 years when no-one has really seen Garnett play, you could probably convince them Butler was a better player.

Lol no, KG still will have more accolades than Butler.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 50,210
And1: 27,113
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#47 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:10 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:Ill partially agree. defense REQUIRES more hard work than it did in the past, thats why the scoring is so high. teams do not have the will to play it on a nightly basis. the gap betweeen whats occurring on the floor vs what teams are capable of doing on the defensive end is just massive in comparison to any other era of the sport. Teams dont practice or prepare for opponents anymore, they just try to fine tune their principles, which they will eventually abandon in the playoffs based on opponent. team doctors and players are shocked if a team wants to practice 5 times a month now outside of film study. The raptors let some people watch practices for local coaching development, and we are all floored at how mild they are. they might as well be in a party chat on XBOX and talk about the game while they play COD, and they were doing this in the year we won the title even.


Practice was never a big thing. These teams play 82 games, plus preseason, plus the playoffs.

And teams have never focused on defense outside of big playoff matchups. The bigger change is that everyone today is involved in the offense. it used to be teams were basically playing games of 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, hell sometimes it was just one on one back and fourth. Today you have 5 guys guarding 5 guys with switches, rotations, and even teams that do more of an iso heavy set...everyone is still involved. IF teams there were teams capable of doing this 30 years ago, they'd have run teams off the floor scoring. Old rules or not.


90s basketball was absolutely brutal in terms of stagnation. Every game was just "throw the ball into the post and everyone stand around". You'd be lucky if there was a backside cut lol

Oh and don't even get me started on 2000s hero ball.......

That's why I can't understand why people complain so much about the game today. There is so much more complexity when it comes to offensive scheme it's objectively better. I guess unless you really like watching 4 guys stand around for the whole game


KG was born to be playing in this era. His passing and off ball skills combined with his jump shot and versatility on both ends would be amazing. And unlike that era, even the worst of teams have competent players vs KG having at times 2 or 3 complete ZERO value players on the floor.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 50,210
And1: 27,113
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#48 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:11 pm

Grahf wrote:Comparing stats without adjusting for era, SMH

2004 Average Points per game: 93
2022 Average Points per Game: 110

2004 Teams that averaged 100 points per game: 2
2022 Teams that averaged 100 points per game: 30

In 2022, the Thunder had the worst offense in the NBA, scoring 103 PPG. That number would've made them the second highest scoring team in 2004. Inflate KG's offensive numbers by about 20%, then see who looks better statistically.


BPM, WS, VORP, RAPM, RPM....none would need a 20% adjustment and those are the only stats people are looking at...
jasonxxx102
Analyst
Posts: 3,444
And1: 3,571
Joined: Feb 13, 2014

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#49 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:18 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Practice was never a big thing. These teams play 82 games, plus preseason, plus the playoffs.

And teams have never focused on defense outside of big playoff matchups. The bigger change is that everyone today is involved in the offense. it used to be teams were basically playing games of 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, hell sometimes it was just one on one back and fourth. Today you have 5 guys guarding 5 guys with switches, rotations, and even teams that do more of an iso heavy set...everyone is still involved. IF teams there were teams capable of doing this 30 years ago, they'd have run teams off the floor scoring. Old rules or not.


90s basketball was absolutely brutal in terms of stagnation. Every game was just "throw the ball into the post and everyone stand around". You'd be lucky if there was a backside cut lol

Oh and don't even get me started on 2000s hero ball.......

That's why I can't understand why people complain so much about the game today. There is so much more complexity when it comes to offensive scheme it's objectively better. I guess unless you really like watching 4 guys stand around for the whole game


KG was born to be playing in this era. His passing and off ball skills combined with his jump shot and versatility on both ends would be amazing. And unlike that era, even the worst of teams have competent players vs KG having at times 2 or 3 complete ZERO value players on the floor.


KG is easily one of the best players in the league if he were playing now.

He'd be able to be a DHO hub like Sabonis but DPOY caliber and better offensive player.

I have no doubt KG could have been at least an average 3pt shooter on decent volume if he played today.
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 50,210
And1: 27,113
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#50 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:20 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
90s basketball was absolutely brutal in terms of stagnation. Every game was just "throw the ball into the post and everyone stand around". You'd be lucky if there was a backside cut lol

Oh and don't even get me started on 2000s hero ball.......

That's why I can't understand why people complain so much about the game today. There is so much more complexity when it comes to offensive scheme it's objectively better. I guess unless you really like watching 4 guys stand around for the whole game


KG was born to be playing in this era. His passing and off ball skills combined with his jump shot and versatility on both ends would be amazing. And unlike that era, even the worst of teams have competent players vs KG having at times 2 or 3 complete ZERO value players on the floor.


KG is easily one of the best players in the league if he were playing now.

He'd be able to be a DHO hub like Sabonis but DPOY caliber and better offensive player.

I have no doubt KG could have been at least an average 3pt shooter on decent volume if he played today.


3 or not he'd be great. He shot the long 2 well enough to keep defenses honest with no adjustments.
User avatar
buckboy
RealGM
Posts: 13,156
And1: 8,535
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Location: At the Gettin' Place
     

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#51 » by buckboy » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:37 pm

No.

That was the easiest question I'll be asked all day.
"This is my home, this is my city...I'm blessed to be a part of the Milwaukee Bucks for the next 5 years. Let's make these years count. The show goes on, let's get it."
Joshyjess
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,858
And1: 8,705
Joined: Jun 20, 2018
         

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#52 » by Joshyjess » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Since they both play(ed) for the Heat, a better comparrison might be Butler vs. Wade, since there is ZERO comparrison between Butler and Garnett.
Def Leppard
Analyst
Posts: 3,452
And1: 2,228
Joined: May 27, 2013

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#53 » by Def Leppard » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:50 pm

Hahahaha no, no no no he does not

Sent from my SM-G981W using RealGM mobile app
"Rise up, gather round, rock this place, to the ground"
User avatar
RoyceDa59
RealGM
Posts: 24,260
And1: 9,174
Joined: Aug 25, 2002
         

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#54 » by RoyceDa59 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:54 pm

KG obviously better but man they’d be a great 1-2 punch.

SF Butler
PF Garnett

Nice foundation for a championship team.
Go Raps!!
Ein Sof
Pro Prospect
Posts: 950
And1: 798
Joined: Jun 11, 2021

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#55 » by Ein Sof » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:58 pm

Yes. Part of what makes that 2020 title one of the most impressive rings of all time.
DrCoach
General Manager
Posts: 7,952
And1: 4,338
Joined: May 24, 2014

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#56 » by DrCoach » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:59 pm

No

You can add Jimmy and Caron Butler and the answer is the same
Priest24
Pro Prospect
Posts: 929
And1: 830
Joined: Aug 11, 2017
     

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#57 » by Priest24 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:05 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:Jesus h Christ…..


Just smile and nod. :nod:
My opinion may not be your opinion or their opinion but I have it.
FluLikeSymptoms
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 19,112
And1: 8,713
Joined: Nov 26, 2004
Location: TBD

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#58 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:07 pm

Statistically never but KG didn’t want the last shot like Jimmy does, it was a lot of barking but he wasn’t that dude.
Lockdown504090
RealGM
Posts: 11,796
And1: 12,678
Joined: Nov 24, 2015
         

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#59 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:10 pm

RoyceDa59 wrote:KG obviously better but man they’d be a great 1-2 punch.

SF Butler
PF Garnett

Nice foundation for a championship team.

I would pay so much money for the trash talk feed of those games.
Lockdown504090
RealGM
Posts: 11,796
And1: 12,678
Joined: Nov 24, 2015
         

Re: Does Jimmy Butler Have A Higher Peak Than Kevin Garnett? 

Post#60 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:12 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:Ill partially agree. defense REQUIRES more hard work than it did in the past, thats why the scoring is so high. teams do not have the will to play it on a nightly basis. the gap betweeen whats occurring on the floor vs what teams are capable of doing on the defensive end is just massive in comparison to any other era of the sport. Teams dont practice or prepare for opponents anymore, they just try to fine tune their principles, which they will eventually abandon in the playoffs based on opponent. team doctors and players are shocked if a team wants to practice 5 times a month now outside of film study. The raptors let some people watch practices for local coaching development, and we are all floored at how mild they are. they might as well be in a party chat on XBOX and talk about the game while they play COD, and they were doing this in the year we won the title even.


Practice was never a big thing. These teams play 82 games, plus preseason, plus the playoffs.

And teams have never focused on defense outside of big playoff matchups. The bigger change is that everyone today is involved in the offense. it used to be teams were basically playing games of 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, hell sometimes it was just one on one back and fourth. Today you have 5 guys guarding 5 guys with switches, rotations, and even teams that do more of an iso heavy set...everyone is still involved. IF teams there were teams capable of doing this 30 years ago, they'd have run teams off the floor scoring. Old rules or not.


90s basketball was absolutely brutal in terms of stagnation. Every game was just "throw the ball into the post and everyone stand around". You'd be lucky if there was a backside cut lol

Oh and don't even get me started on 2000s hero ball.......

That's why I can't understand why people complain so much about the game today. There is so much more complexity when it comes to offensive scheme it's objectively better. I guess unless you really like watching 4 guys stand around for the whole game

i actually agree with both of you. I do think watching kobe and bruce bowen play 1 on 1 is more fun that watching teams switch everything with little to no resistance, funnel guys to the baseline and do dummy rotations and hope they miss a shot, because thats legitimately what a lot of the teams are doing.

Return to The General Board