michaelm wrote:TheLand13 wrote:michaelm wrote:There is no comparison between LeBron and Curry as individual players, LeBron has more attributes, including the ability to dominate a game defensively which Curry has never had. He probably has MJ covered as well for individual attributes, he has never quite had MJ’s near psychotic will to win, but this is probably not to his discredit. He is the GOAT floor raiser imo, Curry obviously couldn’t have taken the 2007 or 2018 Cavs as far as LeBron did, and I strongly doubt even MJ could have done so!; I gather he had opportunities for something similar but didn’t manage to do so. LeBron has everyone including MJ beat on longevity, and only partly because he was able to start earlier. MJ seems to have taken longer to reach his peak, not that I followed the NBA much before the MJ/Bulls titles. What I object to is the MJ (and Curry not that I would contend that he rates with MJ and LeBron) had stacked teams narratives. Except for the big 3 Celtics LeBron stacked first, and stacked more often than any teams or players contemporary with him, and if he/his team trades their prospects for win now players at the getgo it can hardly be unexpected if they are getting thin by the end of 4 seasons. Posters have said on this and the MJ thread that MJ only became great when the triangle offense was integrated, and that even in 2022 GSW only won by ensemble play; rather than a negative I consider it a strong positive that both Curry and the obviously considerably greater MJ were prepared to accept not having the ball in their hands as much for team ends. I am a fan of ensemble play ahead of iso play personally and have found the play of most of LeBron’s teams somewhat crude in comparison with a more ensemble form of the game. I except 2020, the play of that Lakers team with LeBron next to a healthy AD, for once an elite player with a perfect fit with LeBron, together with the supporting cast was a thing of beauty as I have said previously.
The one thing in regard to which i am supporting the OP on this thread is that regardless of the strength of the ultimate versions of the teams concerned 2022 GSW were not considered to be a stronger contender for the 2022 title than the 2018 Cavs were were for the 2018 title before the respective seasons started.
It doesn’t matter what the teams were before the seasons started. Cleveland was a very different team at the halfway point and it was clear they weren’t as good as everyone thought they would be.
I don’t push the “Curry always had stacked teams “ narrative, but I definitely acknowledge that he was far more lucky than LeBron ever was in terms of teammates. The fact that LeBron had to do what he did in the first place is proof of this.
Where we differ is on the word “luck”.
Go through the first seven years of Lebron’s career and tell me when he at any point was able to get two all NBA players through draft and a top three player in the league in his team.
Let’s make something clear here too while we’re at it: I don’t use Curry being lucky against him. It would be idiotic for me to. Kareem is one of the luckiest mfers in NBA history and he’s the third best player of all time imo. Curry worked his ass off to overcome the injury issues he had early in his career and became the greatest shooter of all time and a four time champion. He earned every single accolade that he has to this day. But you cannot tell me he hasn’t had luck on his side in regards to teammates. 2022 I’ll gladly grant an exception for because it wasn’t a particularly strong supporting cast. But for most of his peak seasons, he has been blessed.
