How lucky were the 1990's Bulls not to suffer from serious injuries to their stars during their title runs.

[Cavsfansince84]

Thanks for answering. Are you saying all these teams were the best team then?

Well ya I am saying the champ is the best team(most often). Obviously there are cases where injuries can factor in but it wasn't that much in any of the teams listed above outside of the Lakers in 04 but they still had their big 2.

[OhayoKD]

A lot ... could you clarify what you mean by that, how often/when you think it has happened? Thanks.

The last 7 nba finals featured at least one team who was not top 3 in SRS. 3 of the last 4 champions were not top 3 in SRS. May be atypical historically, but it's pretty standard nowadays.

I don't think that answers the question though. I am intereted in that rather than making a case for something. It's true that there's a greater trend to prioritizing health for playoffs. I think that would make it harder to get a holistic read on best team with the larger sample more contaminated. But I am curious to know how often. For myself it's far from automatic that the best team is the champion (though that is of course what they're all playing for).

Still I'll engage ...

Fwiw, looking at it I've got 2 of the last 4 (the last two) and both 4th and narrowly off the top 3 (which probably gives them a better case for top team, but hinting if SRS rank isn't as important, that a strong showing there and winning a title both correlating with being a good team, should themselves correlate to a fair degree).

Both had also shown RS dominance with that core (GS further back for real dominance) and had a case for not needing RS maximization (GS also some injuries). That probably helps them in terms of their "at full capacity argument" but isn't the case for the vast majority of teams.

I don't think the finals stat means that much. At least two of the three have to be in one conference so at best the "weaker" conference has one chance, it has to have the "favorite" go through, or else they none and no chance at all. And I don't think losing finals plus non-top 3 SRS is a great case (at least in and of itself) for best team.

Don't have time to re-read, edit as I'd like now, so apologies for any errors.

Fair enough. Sadly, I'm too lazy to answer the question you asked directly. Imagine they are equating "champion" with "best team" here which, I think in a descriptive frame is pretty fair. Saying the champion isn't the best team kind of undermines the function of the championship

[Frosty]

I do wonder how we would view Jordan's legacy nowadays had his co-stars gone down in key playoff runs during his prime years as Wilt's and Lebron's did.


As MJ was 9-16 in playoff games either missing key teammates, or with injured teammates missing big minutes.

He was 1-5 in Conference Finals games and 1-2 in Finals games. 2-7.

Excluding these games, he was 28-11 in CF and 23-9 in Finals.

That’s a huge swing as MJ’s winning PCT went from 72% to 22%.

I read this and thought, 'where are those stats coming from and what are the criteria?"

Then I found you posted this on another site as an argument, not a "just asking questions" post. In that situation you defined your criteria

or this string, an “injured key player” game is defined as:

A starter or a player at 1,600 MP
Who misses a game
—OR—
Plays 15 or less minutes (got injured or tried to play)

Because of injury.

Not just losing minutes (Paxson, Sellers, Gervin) or foul trouble (Longley)

1600 seems pretty low when you were talking starters earlier. Let's see where this goes.

We’ll do this by playoff round.

In the 1st round and CSF:

Longley missed the 1st round vs the 43 win Nets in 98 (knee) and the Bulls went 3-0.

Paxson might’ve had a bruised knee in 88 when over 5 gms he played 11, 11, 6, 1 and 5 minutes. 2 vs CLE (1-1), 3 vs DET (1-2). Averaged 23 MPG that year. Also in a slump.


In 1985, Steve Johnson never played > 10 min vs the Bucks. Starter most of the year. 1-3.

In 1986, the Bulls starting center was Jawann Oldham, out with a fractured cheekbone. 4 min total in the series. 0-3.

In 98, Kukoc had a bad back in the CSF. 10 min game. Win.

7-9 total.

Longley missed a series and it's worth mentioning that it was the 43 win Nets, I agree

Steve Johnson? He hadn't been a starter since January and they were facing the 59 win Bucks (39 win Bulls) If we are mentioning the Nets we gotta include this mismatch. Johnson was not a key player but I guess he at least fits the 1600 minute mark

1986 Jawann Oldham ???? Ok he doesn't even fit the 1600 min threshold. He was their 9th man in minutes. They were facing one of the all time great teams in the 67 win Celtics. Again, if we are mentioning the Nets. Lets mention this. Even if it seems like it falls outside the criteria you set for this exercise. (I'll drop it)

Where is - 1996 Kukoc missed the last 3 games vs NYK with a back injury 2-1 Bulls

This just seems like picking stats to suit a narrative regardless of context.

[PaulieWal]

The great thing is you don't have to tell me anything

We're just not going to acknowledge the point that's already been brought up in this thread that it wasn't a coincidence that Jordan's teammates (or Jordan for that matter) didn't get injured that much because they were big on physical fitness? We're just going to write up injuries entirely up to luck? Especially important to ignore that LeBron willingly teamed up with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love and AD despite them all having a history with injuries and just call him unlucky. Even besides that let's ignore every single title needs some form of luck to happen. Man if only I could ever become as objective as the guy with the LeBron profile picture who is only interested in talking positively about LeBron!

Now let's all hold hands and chant together! Jordan bad! Jordan bad! Jordan bad!

Warned for contributing to derailing the thread.

[PaulieWal]

Bro no one is comparing this cavs team to golden state tf lol.

follow the conversation challenge

If you don't think that Jordan performance against a great team is unimpressive then ok we can disagree.

reply to what was actually said challenge

You have to be able to post without resorting to this kind of aggressive posting

[PaulieWal]

Bro no one is comparing this cavs team to golden state tf lol.

follow the conversation challenge

If you don't think that Jordan performance against a great team is unimpressive then ok we can disagree.

reply to what was actually said challenge

Reading comprehension challenge.

Try not to be an **** challenge.

Warned for aggressive posting.