1960s full games quantity estimation

[70sFan]

Hi, I have been thinking (as always) about the 1960s footage and I have been wondering if there's enough full games from that period to create some kind of play-by-play database for the whole era - something similar to what trex started a few years ago, but with upgdraded collection.

The question remains how many 1960s games that could be used for that still exist. My collection includes these games that are full (or very close to it):

25.10.1959 Lakers vs Royals
19.10.1961 Knicks vs Packers
01.12.1961 Knicks vs Nationals
Game 7 1962 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 6 1963 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 4 1964 Finals Warriors vs Celtics
Game 5 1964 Finals Celtics vs Warriors
Game 5 1966 ECSF Royals vs Celtics
Game 7 1966 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 4 1967 ECF Celtics vs Sixers
09.12.1967 Knicks vs Pistons
25.12.1967 Warriors vs Sonics
14.02.1968 Knicks vs Rockets
Game 1 1969 ECF Knicks vs Celtics

I also have a lot of shorter reels from other games (some up to 30 minutes), but I am not sure if they are good enough to do any PbP work. That gives us 14 1960s games, which isn't that much. I wonder if any of you know about any other 1960s games and if it's possible to do PbP work on some of them.

Special request to you who can know something about it:

...

...

[Squared2020]

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[prolific passer]

Like to see some hawks vs Celtics, hawks vs warriors and warriors vs Celtics.

A young and prime wilt, pettit, and Russell going at it.

[70sFan]

I have a couple games as play-by-play data files:

07.01.1950 Pistons v. Knicks
22.11.1950 Pistons v. Knicks (Infamous 19-18 Father/Son Game)
31.03.1954 Nationals v. Lakers
12.04.1958 Hawks v. Celtics
02.03.1962 Knicks v. Warriors (Entire 4th quarter only)
04.24.1963 Celtics v. Lakers
16.03.1966 Bullets v. Knicks
30.03.1966 Celtics v. Royals

That's great! Would it be possible to get block numbers and shooting chart (or at least range) for Russell from full Celtics vs Royals game? I only have 2nd half unfortunately.

Also, did you do similar work with 1970-73 games as well?

[70sFan]

I also know there is a big number of old 1960s Knicks coaching tapes. I have 3 such games in my collection, but I am aware of more than 10 of the other ones that exist. Such tapes would be perfect to do some basic PbP work.

[SNPA]

Am I imagining it or did something come out saying the NBA was working in access to an archive of this era?

[OhayoKD]

Hi, I have been thinking (as always) about the 1960s footage and I have been wondering if there's enough full games from that period to create some kind of play-by-play database for the whole era - something similar to what trex started a few years ago, but with upgdraded collection.

The question remains how many 1960s games that could be used for that still exist. My collection includes these games that are full (or very close to it):

25.10.1959 Lakers vs Royals
19.10.1961 Knicks vs Packers
01.12.1961 Knicks vs Nationals
Game 7 1962 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 6 1963 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 4 1964 Finals Warriors vs Celtics
Game 5 1964 Finals Celtics vs Warriors
Game 5 1966 ECSF Royals vs Celtics
Game 7 1966 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 4 1967 ECF Celtics vs Sixers
09.12.1967 Knicks vs Pistons
25.12.1967 Warriors vs Sonics
14.02.1968 Knicks vs Rockets
Game 1 1969 ECF Knicks vs Celtics

I also have a lot of shorter reels from other games (some up to 30 minutes), but I am not sure if they are good enough to do any PbP work. That gives us 14 1960s games, which isn't that much. I wonder if any of you know about any other 1960s games and if it's possible to do PbP work on some of them.

Special request to you who can know something about it:

...

...

Where's t-rex's play by play database?

[70sFan]

Hi, I have been thinking (as always) about the 1960s footage and I have been wondering if there's enough full games from that period to create some kind of play-by-play database for the whole era - something similar to what trex started a few years ago, but with upgdraded collection.

The question remains how many 1960s games that could be used for that still exist. My collection includes these games that are full (or very close to it):

25.10.1959 Lakers vs Royals
19.10.1961 Knicks vs Packers
01.12.1961 Knicks vs Nationals
Game 7 1962 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 6 1963 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 4 1964 Finals Warriors vs Celtics
Game 5 1964 Finals Celtics vs Warriors
Game 5 1966 ECSF Royals vs Celtics
Game 7 1966 Finals Celtics vs Lakers
Game 4 1967 ECF Celtics vs Sixers
09.12.1967 Knicks vs Pistons
25.12.1967 Warriors vs Sonics
14.02.1968 Knicks vs Rockets
Game 1 1969 ECF Knicks vs Celtics

I also have a lot of shorter reels from other games (some up to 30 minutes), but I am not sure if they are good enough to do any PbP work. That gives us 14 1960s games, which isn't that much. I wonder if any of you know about any other 1960s games and if it's possible to do PbP work on some of them.

Special request to you who can know something about it:

...

...

Where's t-rex's play by play database?

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1991991

[70sFan]

Am I imagining it or did something come out saying the NBA was working in access to an archive of this era?

They supposedly do so for around 20 years at this point and it's true, as they upload more and more rare clips with excellent quality.

Considering what they made available on 75 anniversary season, I wouldn't have much hope that they will ever make it available for us.

[70sFan]

Some examples of 1960s Knicks coaching tapes we know that exist, but can't watch it:

vs 76ers 13.11.1965

Watch on YouTube

vs Royals 1962

Watch on YouTube

vs Royals 14.11.1964

Watch on YouTube

vs Lakers 1965

Watch on YouTube

Clips focused on Guerin from various games (vs Hawks, Royals, Celtics, Lakers)

These alone gives us 8 full Knicks games from the early and mid-1960s and there are more from the late 1960s as well.

[trex_8063]

I have a couple games as play-by-play data files:

07.01.1950 Pistons v. Knicks
22.11.1950 Pistons v. Knicks (Infamous 19-18 Father/Son Game)
31.03.1954 Nationals v. Lakers
12.04.1958 Hawks v. Celtics
02.03.1962 Knicks v. Warriors (Entire 4th quarter only)
04.24.1963 Celtics v. Lakers
16.03.1966 Bullets v. Knicks
30.03.1966 Celtics v. Royals

That's great! Would it be possible to get block numbers and shooting chart (or at least range) for Russell from full Celtics vs Royals game? I only have 2nd half unfortunately.

Also, did you do similar work with 1970-73 games as well?

You probably already knew, but I have shot location (or shot range) tracked for all those games I did the game logs for (which included the 2nd half of the game in question). I logged ~4.65 games worth of Bill Russell (all of them playoff games, taking place between '62 and '69); 42 total FGA tracked in that sample. Sadly, I only tracked range, not location [e.g. "left elbow" or similar] of shots.

Russell's full stat-line for that 2nd half of the above game was: 4 pts (1/2 FG's, 2/2 FT's), 14 reb (2 off, 12 def), 1 ast [plus 1 secondary or "hockey" assist], 4 blk [2 of which were recovered by the Celtics], 2 tov, 1 pf. I'd have to go back into the game log to find his FGA's to tell what range they were from.

I'd thought about going thru all my old game logs and doing a plus/minus tracking for them; but it was a daunting task, and I'm so strapped for time most weeks. Also [as to your question in OP], I'm not sure we have the sample size for it to be of much value, unfortunately.

[70sFan]

I have a couple games as play-by-play data files:

07.01.1950 Pistons v. Knicks
22.11.1950 Pistons v. Knicks (Infamous 19-18 Father/Son Game)
31.03.1954 Nationals v. Lakers
12.04.1958 Hawks v. Celtics
02.03.1962 Knicks v. Warriors (Entire 4th quarter only)
04.24.1963 Celtics v. Lakers
16.03.1966 Bullets v. Knicks
30.03.1966 Celtics v. Royals

That's great! Would it be possible to get block numbers and shooting chart (or at least range) for Russell from full Celtics vs Royals game? I only have 2nd half unfortunately.

Also, did you do similar work with 1970-73 games as well?

You probably already knew, but I have shot location (or shot range) tracked for all those games I did the game logs for (which included the 2nd half of the game in question). I logged ~4.65 games worth of Bill Russell (all of them playoff games, taking place between '62 and '69); 42 total FGA tracked in that sample. Sadly, I only tracked range, not location [e.g. "left elbow" or similar] of shots.

Russell's full stat-line for that 2nd half of the above game was: 4 pts (1/2 FG's, 2/2 FT's), 14 reb (2 off, 12 def), 1 ast [plus 1 secondary or "hockey" assist], 4 blk [2 of which were recovered by the Celtics], 2 tov, 1 pf. I'd have to go back into the game log to find his FGA's to tell what range they were from.

I'd thought about going thru all my old game logs and doing a plus/minus tracking for them; but it was a daunting task, and I'm so strapped for time most weeks. Also [as to your question in OP], I'm not sure we have the sample size for it to be of much value, unfortunately.

I also made the tracking for the second half of this game, so I know locations of his attempts. Your work helped me a lot to check the results of my own tracking, I appreciate that a lot.

I don't think we have the sample size right now either, but I know that more material exists, so maybe at some point we will do more when we get more games (at least I hope so). You tracked some of these Knicks silent tapes and as you can see above, there are a lot of them - just not available for us right now.

[Squared2020]

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[70sFan]

I don't know how well this will show. But here's a snippet of the one pbp file I've reconstructed from audio for that Pistons-Lakers game.

It is readable, thank you very much! Would it be possible to share the similar file for other games?

[Squared2020]

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[70sFan]

They're difficult to screencap for the most part. But here's a period of Lakers-Celtics that's from video. I'm sure you have already gone through this game.



This one has shot locations included. I used an NBA play-by-play logging tool to get those locations.

Yeah, I have done that game. Such shot location data would be highly valuable to me, as I have been tracking shooting data for the best centers ever - Wilt and Russell included.

[SNPA]

Some examples of 1960s Knicks coaching tapes we know that exist, but can't watch it:

vs 76ers 13.11.1965

Watch on YouTube

vs Royals 1962

Watch on YouTube

vs Royals 14.11.1964

Watch on YouTube

vs Lakers 1965

Watch on YouTube

Clips focused on Guerin from various games (vs Hawks, Royals, Celtics, Lakers)

These alone gives us 8 full Knicks games from the early and mid-1960s and there are more from the late 1960s as well.

Oscar. Man. Damn. If you let that guy palm like they do today? Totally unstoppable in this era.

[Djoker]

I honestly find it tragic that we have so few full games from that era.

[prolific passer]

I honestly find it tragic that we have so few full games from that era.

Agreed. When you hear about those games and look at some of the stats as well as some highlights. Only makes you want to watch the games themselves.

[capfan33]

I honestly find it tragic that we have so few full games from that era.

Agreed. When you hear about those games and look at some of the stats as well as some highlights. Only makes you want to watch the games themselves.

Yea it's a shame the NBA wasn't especially popular back then, really wish we had more footage of a lot of these older legends.