KD to the Suns

[bwgood77]

Doesn't matter if you're an all time great the odds of coming down with a career threatening or even ending injury just gets higher due to all the years of wear and tear and muscles & tendons just get weaker as you age.

No one can question Kobe's drive and love for the game but after his achilles injury he was essentially finished at age 34. KD had one achilles injury already and while he has bounced back nicely can he sustain another injury at age 34 and keep playing at a high level?

The prudent thing would have been to roll with our core and see if they could make some noise in the playoffs just as our players were starting to gel and come back from injury, if they flamed out in the playoffs then revisit the Durant trade with the Nets in the offseason because realistically there aren't enough games in the season to integrate KD with the team on offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

Yeah, who knows what will happen. There is certainly risk given our injury problems already. I would have also revisited in the summer and tried to work something out, and chances are if he still wants out there are more suitors and the price doesn't come down anyway.

At the same time I understand pulling the trigger now because if you are going to do it regardless, doing it now is better from the standpoint that our best chance at a championship with KD while CP3 is still a "superstar" is this year, which couldn't happen if the trade doesn't happen now.

I personally was one of the few really excited about our young core and though that with Booker, Bridges, Cam, Ayton and all our picks were in a very nice spot for the next decade, with Bridges massively improving quickly, Cam improving and Ayton putting up big #s still with a lot of upside. I also thought the team was special in the way it had such chemistry and unity, which CP3 said is very rare in the league.

But I can still obviously be very excited by the Suns and watching Book and Ayton further evolve with KD and hopefully see some new players blossom like Okogie who hopefully, if that's the case, can figure out a way to keep...would definitely soften the Bridges blow. And I can also be happy for Bridges and Cam in their new situations giving them more opportunities to expand their games and be a major part of a competitive team with a lot of assets moving forward and even if the picks turn out to be good ones, it helps them out too. So hopefully it's a win win trade for everyone and we can get a couple rings and figure out a way to reload somehow when we need to.

My only comments above about the Ish interviews was his saying there is no risk and that it is not sacrficing the future or being clarified to ask what he meant when he said it to begin with prior to the trade.

I can totally respect the move and would really respect Ishbia a lot more even if he said "Everything is a risk. Every draft pick and every move you make. But the rarity of having a top 15 player join one of the best PGs ever and a young star (or he could say two if he wanted to be nice to Ayton) is worth it to me....that chance probably only passes you by once, so in the end I decided that even though the price was steep and there is risk involved, taking that chance which I will likely never see again, felt like the right thing to do so I went for it."

A response like that would have been a nice eloquent answer I believe.

[POLI]

I just think Mat is defining 'risk' differently than some of yall. In the business world a high 'risk' deal can lose you billions of dollars or your whole company. This trade they risk what, it failing and they give up a high pick or two? Like they aren't contracting the team or taking away his ownership if the trade doesn't work out. You still get to make trades, sign players, acquire other draft picks and keep trying to win. I can understand how to him the consequences of this working out aren't life and death serious.

I know some of you are losing sleep over 2029 not being able to scout some kid whos currently in the 5th grade but I don't think Mat is.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

That is it.
He was speaking more from a business perspective. The franchise is not going to loose money, image, sponsorships or any other important asset because of this signing. Probably the opposite.

Then from a sport point of view, KD is bringing his game and, if he leaves or retires in 3.5 years, he will be given us some return> cap space, trade, picks...

From a basketball point of view this was a no brainer (as much as I did not like KD and a person and even as a basketball player). KD amounts for much more than Cam, Bridges, the picks, etc. Those are good role players that would ever bring a championship here unless they play with one or two superstars. KD is a superstar. Now we need to find role players that can play with KD and Booker to round the perfect roster. We already got two in TJ and Ross. Probably Bridges and Cam are players whose characteristics are better suited to play with KD, but in trades (as in business) you have to give something to get something in a deal.

With Durant we have now two stars who can share the court and alternate their rests. I believe they complement each other, although they are not players that could participate in the same plays consistently, as they do not have the type of game that feeds off the characteristics of the other one. I mean, KD does not need a SG to get his buckets, neither his game depends much on post players (DA) or on passes from his PG (Paul). Also Booker does not need a SF/PF who plays facing the basket and usually does not make screens for others. The perfect situation would be if KD was a post player used to set screens an then open up to get a pass and then shoot, or dribble down low.

This is something we now have to discover and Monty and his assistants for sure are having a hard time to find ways to insert KD into our game. For what I have seen of the Doncic-Irving duo, it is not easy at all. Dallas is losing more and the play of the team has been affected. It has been only 3-4 games, but they are playing worse and the adjustment has not happened... for the moment.

A similar thing is been happening in Atlanta, where the duo of Murray and Young would supposedly open a ton of variabilities for on court options and also alternate their times on the bench and the reality is that it has been a disaster (or not as good as imagined).

So things have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[sunsbg]

In Dallas they have two players who don't do much off ball, so it's 1st half Luka, 2nd half Kyrie so far.

I guess we'll see some of that with Book and KD, but they are still better off ball players. In addition Suns have two other stars who are fine getting less shots in CP3 and DA, but will make life easier for the other two with passing and drawing defenders to protect the paint.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[spanishninja]

so while we're continuing to talk about the KD trade (since that's all we can do now while waiting for him to suit up), I was circling back to the conversation about the most high profile players to have been traded midseason. People have talked about Pau and Drexler, but I remembered now that Dominique Wilkins was also traded midseason from the Hawks to the Clippers in the 90s, and when you look at that trade again, there are actually quite a few parallels.

- both KD and Nique were in their mid-30s
- both had recently recovered from achilles injuries
- both had returned from said surgeries to perform very well
- both were traded from good teams at the time
- both trades featured "lesser" talent going back (Danny Manning to the Hawks in Nique's case)

I remember watching Nique on the Clippers after the trade as a kid and he looked very good, and it was a big deal for the Clippers at the time back when they were still the laughingstock of the NBA. Unfortunately for LA, Nique only lasted until the offseason and then went to Boston and then was basically done 2 years later. Hope we get a MUCH different ending!

[bwgood77]

so while we're continuing to talk about the KD trade (since that's all we can do now while waiting for him to suit up), I was circling back to the conversation about the most high profile players to have been traded midseason. People have talked about Pau and Drexler, but I remembered now that Dominique Wilkins was also traded midseason from the Hawks to the Clippers in the 90s, and when you look at that trade again, there are actually quite a few parallels.

- both KD and Nique were in their mid-30s
- both had recently recovered from achilles injuries
- both had returned from said surgeries to perform very well
- both were traded from good teams at the time
- both trades featured "lesser" talent going back (Danny Manning to the Hawks in Nique's case)

I remember watching Nique on the Clippers after the trade as a kid and he looked very good, and it was a big deal for the Clippers at the time back when they were still the laughingstock of the NBA. Unfortunately for LA, Nique only lasted until the offseason and then went to Boston and then was basically done 2 years later. Hope we get a MUCH different ending!

I remember thinking that was a fairly even trade at the time. Nique' scored more, and did a little more all around, and was more exciting, but Manning was the higher iq player who was trending up while Nique was trending down and having the worst season of his career, or worst since his 1st or 2nd year...down from 30ppg player to 24..while Manning had trended up to like 23...with more ast, reb, stl, etc. Manning though, despite 27, also started declining after that. We ended up getting him immediately after that Atlanta season ended and he was a very nice 6th man.

I think of the Shaq trade...huge name, top player of all time, 35, for Marion, who was 29. The only thing was, Marion fit our team and style better, was 6 years younger and was actually putting up better #s. KD is way better now than Shaq was, but is injured over half the time the last few years and we gave up far more in getting him...2 starter quality players...one probable future all star or at least one of best two way players and top wing defenders and all the unprotected picks.

[lilfishi22]

I think of the Shaq trade...huge name, top player of all time, 35, for Marion, who was 29. The only thing was, Marion fit our team and style better, was 6 years younger and was actually putting up better #s. KD is way better now than Shaq was, but is injured over half the time the last few years and we gave up far more in getting him...2 starter quality players...one probable future all star or at least one of best two way players and top wing defenders and all the unprotected picks.

I don't think the Shaq trade is the best comp. Shaq hadn't been a clear #1 option for essentially a decade and while he was a good 1B next to Kobe, by the time he was in Miami, he was a bonafide #2 option by then. KD has always been the #1 option or at worst, 1B next to another all-timer in Steph and I don't doubt we brought him in to continue to be the #1 option or at least 1A next to Book's 1B.

I clearly remember when we were getting Shaq, we were getting a Shaq that was one team removed from being close to a #1 option and just wasn't the highlight Shaq of old. He was still productive and still impactful but he was clearly not the same Shaq. I mean, in his last full season with the Heat, he only put up two 30pt+ performances. By the time he got to Phoenix, he knew, we knew, everyone knew he was there as a role player supporting/protecting Amare from the big bigs and doing what's needed to win a title. He also turned 36 like a month after being traded to the Suns and we know bigs, especially ones his size, just doesn't have the longevity smaller players do. He was still solid but he's not even close to the player KD still is now in terms of impact and in terms of being able to put up raw numbers.

It's season 14 for KD and he's still scoring more than his career average and he's also having his most efficient season ever. I mean, statistically, we're getting the best if not one of the best KD's ever. The only blemish is really those injuries and I fully acknowledge they will be problematic if they pop up in the playoffs but given we're getting the best KD (or near), I think it's worth the risk.

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[Revived]

I can see an argument for the move depending on your perpsective and what matters, but I certainly don't think anyone can say it doesn't AT ALL impact our long term future OR comes without risk with a straight face. I mean, that part is quite absurd. Surely you can admit that we gave up A LOT of future opportunties trading two very very good young players and 4 unprotected firsts taking away any chance at draft pieces for 4 years..that's before considering the pick swap and what could have been had for Crowder (at least 5 seconds if not a useful player to add).

I am not particularly impressed with Ishbia at this point and think he was a bit overexuberant in his first few days, but understand he wanted to make a splash and show fans he will go for it and pay the tax. It is respectful but also possibly very reckless.

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

[lilfishi22]

I can see an argument for the move depending on your perpsective and what matters, but I certainly don't think anyone can say it doesn't AT ALL impact our long term future OR comes without risk with a straight face. I mean, that part is quite absurd. Surely you can admit that we gave up A LOT of future opportunties trading two very very good young players and 4 unprotected firsts taking away any chance at draft pieces for 4 years..that's before considering the pick swap and what could have been had for Crowder (at least 5 seconds if not a useful player to add).

I am not particularly impressed with Ishbia at this point and think he was a bit overexuberant in his first few days, but understand he wanted to make a splash and show fans he will go for it and pay the tax. It is respectful but also possibly very reckless.

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Of all the mega trades that landed a superstar over the last decade, we got the best of them. Like the only guys that might give KD a run for his money is the Harden trade to Brooklyn or the AD trade to LA.

[DirtyDez]

I can see an argument for the move depending on your perpsective and what matters, but I certainly don't think anyone can say it doesn't AT ALL impact our long term future OR comes without risk with a straight face. I mean, that part is quite absurd. Surely you can admit that we gave up A LOT of future opportunties trading two very very good young players and 4 unprotected firsts taking away any chance at draft pieces for 4 years..that's before considering the pick swap and what could have been had for Crowder (at least 5 seconds if not a useful player to add).

I am not particularly impressed with Ishbia at this point and think he was a bit overexuberant in his first few days, but understand he wanted to make a splash and show fans he will go for it and pay the tax. It is respectful but also possibly very reckless.

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Of all the mega trades that landed a superstar over the last decade, we got the best of them. Like the only guys that might give KD a run for his money is the Harden trade to Brooklyn or the AD trade to LA.

And as long as Book is under contract, and the Suns were serious about keeping him, those picks were getting traded eventually. Also, Markannen & Kessler will probably go down as a better return than Bridges & Johnson.

[lilfishi22]

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Of all the mega trades that landed a superstar over the last decade, we got the best of them. Like the only guys that might give KD a run for his money is the Harden trade to Brooklyn or the AD trade to LA.

And as long as Book is under contract, and the Suns were serious about keeping him, those picks were getting traded eventually. Also, Markannen & Kessler will probably go down as a better return than Bridges & Johnson.

That's a good point. As long as Book is under contract, those picks likely won't be particular high either, assuming we do right by Book and continue to put a competitive roster around him.

[bwgood77]

I think of the Shaq trade...huge name, top player of all time, 35, for Marion, who was 29. The only thing was, Marion fit our team and style better, was 6 years younger and was actually putting up better #s. KD is way better now than Shaq was, but is injured over half the time the last few years and we gave up far more in getting him...2 starter quality players...one probable future all star or at least one of best two way players and top wing defenders and all the unprotected picks.

I don't think the Shaq trade is the best comp. Shaq hadn't been a clear #1 option for essentially a decade and while he was a good 1B next to Kobe, by the time he was in Miami, he was a bonafide #2 option by then. KD has always been the #1 option or at worst, 1B next to another all-timer in Steph and I don't doubt we brought him in to continue to be the #1 option or at least 1A next to Book's 1B.

I clearly remember when we were getting Shaq, we were getting a Shaq that was one team removed from being close to a #1 option and just wasn't the highlight Shaq of old. He was still productive and still impactful but he was clearly not the same Shaq. I mean, in his last full season with the Heat, he only put up two 30pt+ performances. By the time he got to Phoenix, he knew, we knew, everyone knew he was there as a role player supporting/protecting Amare from the big bigs and doing what's needed to win a title. He also turned 36 like a month after being traded to the Suns and we know bigs, especially ones his size, just doesn't have the longevity smaller players do. He was still solid but he's not even close to the player KD still is now in terms of impact and in terms of being able to put up raw numbers.

It's season 14 for KD and he's still scoring more than his career average and he's also having his most efficient season ever. I mean, statistically, we're getting the best if not one of the best KD's ever. The only blemish is really those injuries and I fully acknowledge they will be problematic if they pop up in the playoffs but given we're getting the best KD (or near), I think it's worth the risk.

A decade? A lot of people thought he should have won MVP over Nash a few years prior. He was really the best player on every Lakers team he was on and the Heat the first two years even if Kobe/Wade took more shots. If you want to call them the #1 option because people like to do that, fine, but they were both clearly the top options and a huge part of their 2006 title. We got him in 2008. Shaq's very best years were in like 01-02...many think the best years ever for a C.

I agree that I didn't think he was a great player anymore and KD isn't but I view it as a similar big name splash who is nearing the end of their career at 34-35 years old. KD is still playing at an elite level when he's on the floor and is playing his most efficient ball ever.

But I said in my post KD was FAR better but also we gave up far far more...just that it makes me think of that. Trading a key cog in a machine on our team, for an older big name who likely was in the twilight of their career. But KD is still playing at a very high level and hopefully he can play at a high level and stay healthy for another couple years...hopefully another 3 years after this.

[bwgood77]

I can see an argument for the move depending on your perpsective and what matters, but I certainly don't think anyone can say it doesn't AT ALL impact our long term future OR comes without risk with a straight face. I mean, that part is quite absurd. Surely you can admit that we gave up A LOT of future opportunties trading two very very good young players and 4 unprotected firsts taking away any chance at draft pieces for 4 years..that's before considering the pick swap and what could have been had for Crowder (at least 5 seconds if not a useful player to add).

I am not particularly impressed with Ishbia at this point and think he was a bit overexuberant in his first few days, but understand he wanted to make a splash and show fans he will go for it and pay the tax. It is respectful but also possibly very reckless.

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Yeah, gotta win at least 2 for it to be worth it. Win one and then fade off would be depressing..hoping for a 3 peat. Then it will definitely be worth it.

[bwgood77]

I can see an argument for the move depending on your perpsective and what matters, but I certainly don't think anyone can say it doesn't AT ALL impact our long term future OR comes without risk with a straight face. I mean, that part is quite absurd. Surely you can admit that we gave up A LOT of future opportunties trading two very very good young players and 4 unprotected firsts taking away any chance at draft pieces for 4 years..that's before considering the pick swap and what could have been had for Crowder (at least 5 seconds if not a useful player to add).

I am not particularly impressed with Ishbia at this point and think he was a bit overexuberant in his first few days, but understand he wanted to make a splash and show fans he will go for it and pay the tax. It is respectful but also possibly very reckless.

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Of all the mega trades that landed a superstar over the last decade, we got the best of them. Like the only guys that might give KD a run for his money is the Harden trade to Brooklyn or the AD trade to LA.

I agree, but also the oldest one. Kawhi, George, AD, Harden, etc, were all significantly younger with a lot more years left and less injury history when traded than KD was traded. One of the biggest trade packages ever for a guy that averages half a season of play after missing a full season due to major injury, and will be 35, 36 and 37 in the three full years of contract at about $50 milkon a year.

Now if he is healthy all 3 years, and it leads to championships, no brainer, but we'll see. I'm not predicting he will get injured or anything...it's just a risk. And declining level in play is a risk too.

[bwgood77]

I can see an argument for the move depending on your perpsective and what matters, but I certainly don't think anyone can say it doesn't AT ALL impact our long term future OR comes without risk with a straight face. I mean, that part is quite absurd. Surely you can admit that we gave up A LOT of future opportunties trading two very very good young players and 4 unprotected firsts taking away any chance at draft pieces for 4 years..that's before considering the pick swap and what could have been had for Crowder (at least 5 seconds if not a useful player to add).

I am not particularly impressed with Ishbia at this point and think he was a bit overexuberant in his first few days, but understand he wanted to make a splash and show fans he will go for it and pay the tax. It is respectful but also possibly very reckless.

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Another thing about Simmons' trade and George being the top package, is that THAT trade package was essentially traded for George AND Kawhi, because that was their way to convince Kawhi to sign. He didn't sign until they pulled the trigger on that trade. They flat out asked him who he wanted to play with.

[sunsbg]

One title and I consider the trade a win. No title and it's quite bad trade. I doubt Suns fade off with Booker and Ayton on the team in their prime. Maybe not as good as they would've been if no trade, but still competitive.

I would be fine giving so much if Durant was 30 with no major injuries. Or at least the trade was made in the offseason, so the team can build some chemistry. Don't know what to expect out of this season with 20 games remaining on KD's debut.

[Saberestar]

I agree with everything you’ve said here but especially this.

I feel like it took Sarver years to learn that NBA isn’t about flashiness and that “substance” is much more sustainable than “splash”. That’s why when he was owner he reportedly told the Nets that Suns would only trade either the players (Bridges/Crowder/Johnson) or picks (probably same ones traded out now) but not both.

And yeah there’s definitely risk involved. The expectation with this kind of a trade has to be 2 championships. But if the Suns don’t win at least one a championship within the 3 years, this is immediately one of the very worst trades in NBA history and easily by far the worst trade in franchise history.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that this trade package for Durant has to be 2nd best trade package ever traded for a superstar player when taking into account the players and picks given away. And he had Paul George deal as the highest trade package because of SGA being a star now.

But like I’ve said before, win 2 titles (at least 1 at minimum) with this group then everyone will forget about the picks and players traded away.

Of all the mega trades that landed a superstar over the last decade, we got the best of them. Like the only guys that might give KD a run for his money is the Harden trade to Brooklyn or the AD trade to LA.

And as long as Book is under contract, and the Suns were serious about keeping him, those picks were getting traded eventually. Also, Markannen & Kessler will probably go down as a better return than Bridges & Johnson.

Probably?? They are already much better than the Twins.

Markannen is a legit All-Star and Kessler is getting better and better so fast...their combined value around the league has to be ridiculously high.

[lilfishi22]

I think of the Shaq trade...huge name, top player of all time, 35, for Marion, who was 29. The only thing was, Marion fit our team and style better, was 6 years younger and was actually putting up better #s. KD is way better now than Shaq was, but is injured over half the time the last few years and we gave up far more in getting him...2 starter quality players...one probable future all star or at least one of best two way players and top wing defenders and all the unprotected picks.

I don't think the Shaq trade is the best comp. Shaq hadn't been a clear #1 option for essentially a decade and while he was a good 1B next to Kobe, by the time he was in Miami, he was a bonafide #2 option by then. KD has always been the #1 option or at worst, 1B next to another all-timer in Steph and I don't doubt we brought him in to continue to be the #1 option or at least 1A next to Book's 1B.

I clearly remember when we were getting Shaq, we were getting a Shaq that was one team removed from being close to a #1 option and just wasn't the highlight Shaq of old. He was still productive and still impactful but he was clearly not the same Shaq. I mean, in his last full season with the Heat, he only put up two 30pt+ performances. By the time he got to Phoenix, he knew, we knew, everyone knew he was there as a role player supporting/protecting Amare from the big bigs and doing what's needed to win a title. He also turned 36 like a month after being traded to the Suns and we know bigs, especially ones his size, just doesn't have the longevity smaller players do. He was still solid but he's not even close to the player KD still is now in terms of impact and in terms of being able to put up raw numbers.

It's season 14 for KD and he's still scoring more than his career average and he's also having his most efficient season ever. I mean, statistically, we're getting the best if not one of the best KD's ever. The only blemish is really those injuries and I fully acknowledge they will be problematic if they pop up in the playoffs but given we're getting the best KD (or near), I think it's worth the risk.

A decade? A lot of people thought he should have won MVP over Nash a few years prior. He was really the best player on every Lakers team he was on and the Heat the first two years even if Kobe/Wade took more shots. If you want to call them the #1 option because people like to do that, fine, but they were both clearly the top options and a huge part of their 2006 title. We got him in 2008. Shaq's very best years were in like 01-02...many think the best years ever for a C.

I agree that I didn't think he was a great player anymore and KD isn't but I view it as a similar big name splash who is nearing the end of their career at 34-35 years old. KD is still playing at an elite level when he's on the floor and is playing his most efficient ball ever.

But I said in my post KD was FAR better but also we gave up far far more...just that it makes me think of that. Trading a key cog in a machine on our team, for an older big name who likely was in the twilight of their career. But KD is still playing at a very high level and hopefully he can play at a high level and stay healthy for another couple years...hopefully another 3 years after this.

Sure you can give him joint #1 option status on the Lakers, I'm happy to concede that point but clearly by the time he was in Miami, he was very clearly #2 to Wade. That's not to say he wasn't good or that he was only a role player but Wade was the guy in Miami, clearly.

Other than both guys being in their mid-30's and being a big midseason trade, there's very little to compare the two guys. The simple fact that KD is coming to be our #1 option whereas Shaq was our #2 or even #3 option (if we consider JRich #2) shows he clear difference.

[lilfishi22]

One title and I consider the trade a win. No title and it's quite bad trade. I doubt Suns fade off with Booker and Ayton on the team in their prime. Maybe not as good as they would've been if no trade, but still competitive.

I would be fine giving so much if Durant was 30 with no major injuries. Or at least the trade was made in the offseason, so the team can build some chemistry. Don't know what to expect out of this season with 20 games remaining on KD's debut.

I've come around more on the trade and don't consider no title an abject failure. There's no move that guarantees and championship and if there was, it would cost a helluva lot more than what we gave up.