Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back

[Duffman100]

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I don’t know how you can think that when I’ve never even suggested we could out lose Houston, Detroit, etc. That was never an option. Top 4 was only possible by moving up with the 6-8 odds. Since top 4 proper wasn’t realistic.


I know a couple years ago I personally looked back at every MVP ever in the league since the lottery system was implemented, only a handful of those players ever were non lottery picks. I can’t find it now but it was basically Jokic, Giannis, Moses Malone, and Steve Nash. I might have missed someone else but pretty sure that’s it. Everyone else were lotto picks.

Picking higher results in better talent. I forgot who but someone broke the numbers down and basically concluded that top 14 has like a 25 percent chance of getting a Allstar player. After the top 8-9 the chances of getting a future allstar drops dramatically.

So you have a 25% chance of getting an all-star player. What's the % chance you get an MVP? What's the % chance you get a top 20 player of all time? Those are the guys you're referencing in drafting to win a title. Not the all-stars.

I don’t know why that matters to you when it’s all but guaranteed that getting an MVP player is much higher through the lottery than trading for one.

Is it? Drafting vs signing/trading?

[720]

Also for the 19 of the last 23 champions featuring homegrown lotto superstar talent number. If I include the 90s and 80’s it gets even more staggering. Jordan x6, Hakeem x2, Isiah x2, Magic x5, Bird x3, Robinson x2. Drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint.

[Yeezus_]

Also for the 19 of the last 23 champions featuring homegrown lotto superstar talent number. If I include the 90s and 80’s it gets even more staggering. Jordan x6, Hakeem x2, Isiah x2, Magic x5, Bird x3, Robinson x2. Drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint.

1) It is unlikely you draft an all time great. Every guy you're listing is a top 20-25 player of all time.
2) How many of these teams multiple superstars drafted by the same team? Because most of these championships had multiple superstars and at least one in which is not from the team that drafted him.

It's way more complicated than "drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint" because you're more likely to not draft a superstar in the draft and it's also likely that superstar will go elsewhere to win a title based on your historical context.

[will]

Also for the 19 of the last 23 champions featuring homegrown lotto superstar talent number. If I include the 90s and 80’s it gets even more staggering. Jordan x6, Hakeem x2, Isiah x2, Magic x5, Bird x3, Robinson x2. Drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint.

Dynasties are grown from lotto picks.

But don't worry, we have to stay loyal to the players. What a load of rubbish! Can't believe people buy into that crap.

[will]

Also for the 19 of the last 23 champions featuring homegrown lotto superstar talent number. If I include the 90s and 80’s it gets even more staggering. Jordan x6, Hakeem x2, Isiah x2, Magic x5, Bird x3, Robinson x2. Drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint.

1) It is unlikely you draft an all time great. Every guy you're listing is a top 20-25 player of all time.
2) How many of these teams multiple superstars drafted by the same team? Because most of these championships had multiple superstars and at least one in which is not from the team that drafted him.

It's way more complicated than "drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint" because you're more likely to not draft a superstar in the draft and it's also likely that superstar will go elsewhere to win a title based on your historical context.

You sure as hell increase the likelihood of drafting an all time great in the lottery.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Drafting top five =/= winning.

[Yeezus_]

Also for the 19 of the last 23 champions featuring homegrown lotto superstar talent number. If I include the 90s and 80’s it gets even more staggering. Jordan x6, Hakeem x2, Isiah x2, Magic x5, Bird x3, Robinson x2. Drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint.

1) It is unlikely you draft an all time great. Every guy you're listing is a top 20-25 player of all time.
2) How many of these teams multiple superstars drafted by the same team? Because most of these championships had multiple superstars and at least one in which is not from the team that drafted him.

It's way more complicated than "drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint" because you're more likely to not draft a superstar in the draft and it's also likely that superstar will go elsewhere to win a title based on your historical context.

You sure as hell increase the likelihood of drafting an all time great in the lottery.

You do but is that what you want to do? Continue tanking for multiple seasons until you draft that superstar? That's a game of luck and doesn't seem like a very sound strategy. I feel like some fans think this is 2K but it's not, it's a business. Also, Philly drafted how many top 5 picks in the past 10 years with their continuous tanking? How many good players did they get out of that? Embiid?

[will]

1) It is unlikely you draft an all time great. Every guy you're listing is a top 20-25 player of all time.
2) How many of these teams multiple superstars drafted by the same team? Because most of these championships had multiple superstars and at least one in which is not from the team that drafted him.

It's way more complicated than "drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint" because you're more likely to not draft a superstar in the draft and it's also likely that superstar will go elsewhere to win a title based on your historical context.

You sure as hell increase the likelihood of drafting an all time great in the lottery.

You do but is that what you want to do? Continue tanking for multiple seasons until you draft that superstar? That's a game of luck and doesn't seem like a very sound strategy. Philly drafted how many top 5 picks in the past 10 years? How many good players did they get out of that? Embiid?

No one is saying tank forever, though.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Yeah, but if you get a false negative like...Ben Simmons. You're stuck there.

[Clutch0z24]

Also for the 19 of the last 23 champions featuring homegrown lotto superstar talent number. If I include the 90s and 80’s it gets even more staggering. Jordan x6, Hakeem x2, Isiah x2, Magic x5, Bird x3, Robinson x2. Drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint.

1) It is unlikely you draft an all time great. Every guy you're listing is a top 20-25 player of all time.
2) How many of these teams multiple superstars drafted by the same team? Because most of these championships had multiple superstars and at least one in which is not from the team that drafted him.

It's way more complicated than "drafting superstars in the lotto is the blueprint" because you're more likely to not draft a superstar in the draft and it's also likely that superstar will go elsewhere to win a title based on your historical context.

Its about picking and choosing when to be a team thats drafting and when to try and be good as well though....

When there are clear cut superstar HOF type player or players in a draft class you go for the ping pong balls if you are not a championship level team that season....Having a winning season and losing in the playoffs is not worth it for the potential your giving up...

When you see a draft where a sure fire HOF player is there in Wemby you just go for it if your a team like the Raptors....Especially we were in position not long ago to actually have a high chance of getting him...

Guys like Magic/Bird/Kareem/Hakeem/Duncan....Most of these talents are already on the radar and if you have a good scout you can find the HOF type guys even if they are not noticeable...

I believe Masai has a talent for drafting and never had the chance to utilize it....Think he could build a Dynasty with a few good draft picks here...

[Duffman100]

When you see a draft where a sure fire HOF player is there in Wemby

He is?

[AbC?]

If you're whole thing is championship or bust, you're going to be miserable as an NBA fan, flat out. There is such a huge uncontrollable luck element that goes into winning it all that it doesn't even seem like a sensible team building philosophy.

Warriors built a dynasty by landing the greatest shooter in NBA history at 7, taken after 2 other PGs. He was riddled with ankle injuries early in his career so he signed a bargain contract that allowed them to sign KD outright after an unprecedented cap spike. They also drafted arguably the 2nd greatest shooter at 11 and one of the best defensive players ever 35. All of that had to work out exactly the way it did for that dynasty to happen.

When we won a championship, we got lucky that Kawhi got Zaza'd and sat out a year and the Spurs refused to trade him to LA. Demar/Poeltl/1st was grand larceny and the way superstar trades are now you will be hardpressed to get one that cheap. Had the Spurs insisted on Siakam we don't win a ring and Kawhi moves on.

Bucks won drafting a gangly Nigerian kid from Greece 15th overall that became a freak and even then were KD being a shoe size smaller from being eliminated in the 2nd round.

Lebron is Lebron. LA and Miami signed him in free agency. Cleveland lost him for nothing, won the draft 3 times, got him back and paired him with Irving/Love.

Yes you need a superstar and another all-NBA caliber player on top of that to truly contend. I'm big on management putting the team in positions to get lucky, and drafting high is one of the best ways to go about getting that elite talent. But to suggest the Raptors or most teams should operate with a championship or bust mentality is naive because getting that superstar is so luck based.

To be clear, I'm not happy the direction the Raptors chose for this season. There was an opportunity for a tactical step back and Victor *could* be that next superstar championship caliber player. A ~9% chance to land him was worth it in my view.

[Clutch0z24]

When you see a draft where a sure fire HOF player is there in Wemby

He is?

Skill wise yes....I have never seen a player that size with that much skills entering the NBA.....Watch some games of his and he is already a polished NBA skilled player at just 19 years old....Hes putting up pretty crazy numbers in a pro league already....

The skills will only increase with time....Not including injuries cause that can ruin anyones career but so far what i seen he is going to be a HOF player....How good he will become will be on him but def he will be one of the better players in the league during his era if not the best....He does things on the court that no 7 foot 4/5 player should be doing...Handles like a guard shoots like KD and is one of the tallest players ever to play in the NBA...

His defense alone will be enough to get him into the HOF....

[Reeko]

You sure as hell increase the likelihood of drafting an all time great in the lottery.

You do but is that what you want to do? Continue tanking for multiple seasons until you draft that superstar? That's a game of luck and doesn't seem like a very sound strategy. Philly drafted how many top 5 picks in the past 10 years? How many good players did they get out of that? Embiid?

No one is saying tank forever, though.

I think what people are getting at is, for how long then? How many of these guys are in each draft?

How long did it take, after their last championship that these teams won with a player that they drafted, to win another championship? My point being is it realistic for us to expect, after just having won a title in '19, to draft a player in lottery that could get us back to being a champion in the next 7 years?

There are a bunch of teams with really good players drafted in the lottery right now, and the reality is that very few of them will ever win a title, especially as number 1 options.

I'm as down for the tank this season as the next man but with the expectation that we can find a really good player going forward, not that we're going to draft the next generational super star.

[Duffman100]

When you see a draft where a sure fire HOF player is there in Wemby

He is?

Skill wise yes....I have never seen a player that size with that much skills entering the NBA.....Watch some games of his and he is already a polished NBA skilled player at just 19 years old....Hes putting up pretty crazy numbers in a pro league already....

The skills will only increase with time....Not including injuries cause that can ruin anyones career but so far what i seen he is going to be a HOF player....How good he will become will be on him but def he will be one of the better players in the league during his era if not the best....He does things on the court that no 7 foot 4/5 player should be doing...Handles like a guard shoots like KD and is one of the tallest players ever.

This is what a lot of people were saying about Porky (to a slight lesser degree). Good season this season, but he struggled to stay on the court, was a little weak inside against NBA competition.

Wemby isn't Duncan or Lebron. He isn't a sure fire can't miss guy.

Does he have potential to be amazing, sure. But he's not a HOF lock before he's even stepped on an NBA court.

[Reeko]

When you see a draft where a sure fire HOF player is there in Wemby

He is?

Skill wise yes....I have never seen a player that size with that much skills entering the NBA.....Watch some games of his and he is already a polished NBA skilled player at just 19 years old....Hes putting up pretty crazy numbers in a pro league already....

The skills will only increase with time....Not including injuries cause that can ruin anyones career but so far what i seen he is going to be a HOF player....How good he will become will be on him but def he will be one of the better players in the league during his era if not the best....He does things on the court that no 7 foot 4/5 player should be doing...Handles like a guard shoots like KD and is one of the tallest players ever to play in the NBA...

His defense alone will be enough to get him into the HOF....

The bar for the basketball HOF is relatively low, so that's not really saying much.

[WuTang_CMB]

this guy has to be a poster on here lolol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Wenby might actually still be growing, I read he's like 7'5" in shoes now.

Once he goes past 7'1" the risk factor goes up a lot.

[Clutch0z24]

He is?

Skill wise yes....I have never seen a player that size with that much skills entering the NBA.....Watch some games of his and he is already a polished NBA skilled player at just 19 years old....Hes putting up pretty crazy numbers in a pro league already....

The skills will only increase with time....Not including injuries cause that can ruin anyones career but so far what i seen he is going to be a HOF player....How good he will become will be on him but def he will be one of the better players in the league during his era if not the best....He does things on the court that no 7 foot 4/5 player should be doing...Handles like a guard shoots like KD and is one of the tallest players ever.

This is what a lot of people were saying about Porky (to a slight lesser degree). Good season this season, but he struggled to stay on the court, was a little weak inside against NBA competition.

Wemby isn't Duncan or Lebron. He isn't a sure fire can't miss guy.

Does he have potential to be amazing, sure. But he's not a HOF lock before he's even stepped on an NBA court.

Lol....Some people you can watch and you just know they have it....Can tell your a doubter of him but when hes in the NBA playing his first half season you will be wishing he was on your team your cheering for lol...

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Trice

Victor was already the number 1 pick in the draft before he even played a game in France, Then played a few games and people saw how crazy good he looked and was unquestionable the number 1 pick....Know how hard it is to be the Number 1 pick in the NBA draft?

Now he will just continue to prove people wrong by being a game changer in the NBA ....He isn't a Duncan....Hes better...He is to me on the LeBron tier prospect atm...

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The problem is you can't really list any 7'5" players that last.