Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[nate33]

Try not to scare off the visitors, okay?

LOL...

Apologies, NYG -- I shouldn't be so salty!

Knicks starting offer... Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, '23 Mavs 1st, '25 Bucks 1st and Wizards 1st returned?

Yeah, I'd take that offer. I'd rather a deal with at least one higher value pick, but I don't know if there is such a deal out there given the presumably short list of teams that Beal would agree to play for.

I'd actually like to see Beal under coach Thibs. Beal is a grinder who always works on his game, so I think he could get along with Thibs' maniacal obsession with effort. But Thibs would probably challenge Beal to play defense much more consistently. (Beal isn't a bad defender when he tries.)

[payitforward]

Try not to scare off the visitors, okay?

LOL...

Apologies, NYG -- I shouldn't be so salty!

Knicks starting offer... Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, '23 Mavs 1st, '25 Bucks 1st and Wizards 1st returned?

First off, thanks for giving me a break on my first response to you! I appreciate it....

For us, IMO, the heart of that offer is Quickley & the picks.*

Fournier is pure cost. Rose is at the end of his career. I don't know what to make of Toppin, who had a pretty good year last year but seems to be trying to "modernize" his game this year with next to no success. If I were doing this deal, I'd be looking around for a team that might want him & would throw in a pick to get him.

Alternatively, would you be willing to include Jericho Sims instead of Toppin?

All the same, I think that deal is a good one -- for us & potentially for you (on the assumption that what you're trying to do is take a big leap in order to contend right now).

Plus, I think it might be really good for Brad to change environments.

Another question for you, NYG -- what's your view of Kyle Kuzma? What do you think he ought to fetch in a trade? Just curious to get some input....


* While a few weeks ago it looked like we'd have no trouble retaining our '23 R1 pick, it doesn't seem nearly as likely now! So that piece of the deal is significant to be sure. Can we also borrow a smart guy from your FO to make the pick for us? We'll give him right back I promise!

[gambitx777]

If we trade Beal we almost can't take Robinson

If oladipo opts into his contract.
The money works for
Lowery, oladipo, Nikola jovic. Then every second they own and 3 firsts maybe?
Which would be 2023, 2027, 2029 firsts and 2026 and 2029 seconds.

I'm assuming if we get bounced in the play in or Kuz walks Beal dips.

Maybe a sign and trade to NYK or Sac for kuz?

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[Frichuela]

LOL...

Apologies, NYG -- I shouldn't be so salty!

Knicks starting offer... Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, '23 Mavs 1st, '25 Bucks 1st and Wizards 1st returned?

Yeah, I'd take that offer. I'd rather a deal with at least one higher value pick, but I don't know if there is such a deal out there given the presumably short list of teams that Beal would agree to play for.

I'd actually like to see Beal under coach Thibs. Beal is a grinder who always works on his game, so I think he could get along with Thibs' maniacal obsession with effort. But Thibs would probably challenge Beal to play defense much more consistently. (Beal isn't a bad defender when he tries.)

Agreed. But I only see this scenario if we don't make the playoffs, either because we fail to reach the play-in (unlikely given how bad Chicago is playing) or we lose in the play-in. I think is unlikely Beal asks out if we make the 1st round of the play-offs.

Between 10-14 in this draft there are potentially a few promising prospects (Black, Wallace, Dick, Sensabaugh) that combined with Quickley would give us some hope for the future...

[NYG]

LOL...

Apologies, NYG -- I shouldn't be so salty!

Knicks starting offer... Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, '23 Mavs 1st, '25 Bucks 1st and Wizards 1st returned?

First off, thanks for giving me a break on my first response to you! I appreciate it....

For us, IMO, the heart of that offer is Quickley & the picks.*

Fournier is pure cost. Rose is at the end of his career. I don't know what to make of Toppin, who had a pretty good year last year but seems to be trying to "modernize" his game this year with next to no success. If I were doing this deal, I'd be looking around for a team that might want him & would throw in a pick to get him.

Alternatively, would you be willing to include Jericho Sims instead of Toppin?

All the same, I think that deal is a good one -- for us & potentially for you (on the assumption that what you're trying to do is take a big leap in order to contend right now).

Plus, I think it might be really good for Brad to change environments.

Another question for you, NYG -- what's your view of Kyle Kuzma? What do you think he ought to fetch in a trade? Just curious to get some input....


* While a few weeks ago it looked like we'd have no trouble retaining our '23 R1 pick, it doesn't seem nearly as likely now! So that piece of the deal is significant to be sure. Can we also borrow a smart guy from your FO to make the pick for us? We'll give him right back I promise!

Regarding Kuzma, I think he opts out

I like the Beal deal because it leaves our own picks and Grimes for a follow up OG Anunoby type deal.

[payitforward]

...Another question for you, NYG -- what's your view of Kyle Kuzma? What do you think he ought to fetch in a trade? Just curious to get some input....

Regarding Kuzma, I think he opts out....

No doubt. But, of course that wouldn't really stand in the way of a trade if NY was the destination he wanted. It would just be a matter of working the deal out w/ him & his agent -- so that he knew what his next deal was going to be.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Try not to scare off the visitors, okay?

LOL...

Apologies, NYG -- I shouldn't be so salty!

Knicks starting offer... Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, '23 Mavs 1st, '25 Bucks 1st and Wizards 1st returned?

Not Quickly. Offer them the robot instead.

[payitforward]

Who's the robot?
Maybe RJ Barrett? (off the sound-similarity...?)

If so, no thanks.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

LOL...

Apologies, NYG -- I shouldn't be so salty!

Knicks starting offer... Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier, Derrick Rose, '23 Mavs 1st, '25 Bucks 1st and Wizards 1st returned?

First off, thanks for giving me a break on my first response to you! I appreciate it....

For us, IMO, the heart of that offer is Quickley & the picks.*

Fournier is pure cost. Rose is at the end of his career. I don't know what to make of Toppin, who had a pretty good year last year but seems to be trying to "modernize" his game this year with next to no success. If I were doing this deal, I'd be looking around for a team that might want him & would throw in a pick to get him.

Alternatively, would you be willing to include Jericho Sims instead of Toppin?

All the same, I think that deal is a good one -- for us & potentially for you (on the assumption that what you're trying to do is take a big leap in order to contend right now).

Plus, I think it might be really good for Brad to change environments.

Another question for you, NYG -- what's your view of Kyle Kuzma? What do you think he ought to fetch in a trade? Just curious to get some input....


* While a few weeks ago it looked like we'd have no trouble retaining our '23 R1 pick, it doesn't seem nearly as likely now! So that piece of the deal is significant to be sure. Can we also borrow a smart guy from your FO to make the pick for us? We'll give him right back I promise!

The offer for Beal only makes sense if the Wizards want to break up the team and tank.

Rose is probably regular season toast. Maybe can give limited playoff minutes. Next year is a team option, so essentially call space. Fournier is a rotation NBA player, but ... Thibs. Will be expiring. Obi is stuck getting no playing time behind all star Jules Randle. Also ... Thibs. The Knicks aren't including IQ in that trade. Obi could get better somewhere, but no one is offering are for him. Sims has no pay to bring a rotation player unless he teaches himself to shoot 3pt shots. Wth would that happen? Besides, the Wizards already have an 3rd string young center.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Who's the robot?
Maybe RJ Barrett? (off the sound-similarity...?)

If so, no thanks.

Got it in one. But it's the last style rather than the name.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Kuz.. Again the Wizards get Fournier.. just for cap reasons. And it isn't the worst salary to take on. Obviously the Wiz get Obi. Maybe some of the random protected picks the Knicks accrued. Sims if that's something the Wiz want. Really the robot should be in the trade because the Knicks would want to run a front court of Robinson-Randle-Kuzma. But these look like slim pickings if the Wizards finish the season well.

Maybe Hart could be part of a snt? But the Wiz would be flooded with guards.

The

[payitforward]

Kuz.. Again the Wizards get Fournier.. just for cap reasons. And it isn't the worst salary to take on. Obviously the Wiz get Obi. Maybe some of the random protected picks the Knicks accrued. Sims if that's something the Wiz want. Really the robot should be in the trade because the Knicks would want to run a front court of Robinson-Randle-Kuzma. But these look like slim pickings if the Wizards finish the season well.

Maybe Hart could be part of a snt? But the Wiz would be flooded with guards.

NYG visited asking about a trade for Beal...!

I did ask him about Kuz, but he responded that Kuz was opting out.

That'd be quite a trade -- moving both Kuzma & Beal in a single transaction! (Obviously, we aren't moving either of them -- for better or worse.)

[gambitx777]

Kuz.. Again the Wizards get Fournier.. just for cap reasons. And it isn't the worst salary to take on. Obviously the Wiz get Obi. Maybe some of the random protected picks the Knicks accrued. Sims if that's something the Wiz want. Really the robot should be in the trade because the Knicks would want to run a front court of Robinson-Randle-Kuzma. But these look like slim pickings if the Wizards finish the season well.

Maybe Hart could be part of a snt? But the Wiz would be flooded with guards.

The

They asked about a Beal trade.
Also Evan isn't a bad alary at this point he's an expiring contract due to the team option. He's very tradable as a cap ballast as this rate.

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[9 and 20]

A question on Kuzma - is sign and trade still a thing? From what I remember with Dinwiddie, I don't think the Nets got very much for him, if anything at all. Isn't it just a sign him or don't sign him thing now?

[gambitx777]

A question on Kuzma - is sign and trade still a thing? From what I remember with Dinwiddie, I don't think the Nets got very much for him, if anything at all. Isn't it just a sign him or don't sign him thing now?

That was a weird situation in a 5 team trade. It is still a thing it just depends on the situation. KD has been sign and traded once or twice I think.

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[nate33]

A question on Kuzma - is sign and trade still a thing? From what I remember with Dinwiddie, I don't think the Nets got very much for him, if anything at all. Isn't it just a sign him or don't sign him thing now?

Most teams can't sign Kuzma as a free agent because they are over the cap. So if they want him, a S&T is the only way to get him. Therefore, Kuzma has value if there are multiple teams willing to sign and trade for him. A market dictates value.

The Nets got two fairly good 2RP's for Dinwiddie (WAS 2023 and WAS 2024). In the abstract, I'd say that Kuzma at present has more value than Dinwiddie at the time since Dinwiddie had missed the entire 2020-21 season due to injury, and the year before he was only a part-time starter. So if Dinwiddie was worth two 2RP's then, Kuzma should be worth a decent 1RP now, or maybe three or four 2RP's.

Also, Brooklyn did not have to take back any bad salary in the trade. If the Wizards absorb a filler contract in a Kuzma sign-and-trade, then they would probably deserve some additional compensation for that.

[payitforward]

A question on Kuzma - is sign and trade still a thing? From what I remember with Dinwiddie, I don't think the Nets got very much for him, if anything at all. Isn't it just a sign him or don't sign him thing now?

Most teams can't sign Kuzma as a free agent because they are over the cap. So if they want him, a S&T is the only way to get him. Therefore, Kuzma has value if there are multiple teams willing to sign and trade for him. A market dictates value.

The Nets got two fairly good 2RP's for Dinwiddie (WAS 2023 and WAS 2024). In the abstract, I'd say that Kuzma at present has more value than Dinwiddie at the time since Dinwiddie had missed the entire 2020-21 season due to injury, and the year before he was only a part-time starter. So if Dinwiddie was worth two 2RP's then, Kuzma should be worth a decent 1RP now, or maybe three or four 2RP's.

Also, Brooklyn did not have to take back any bad salary in the trade. If the Wizards absorb a filler contract in a Kuzma sign-and-trade, then they would probably deserve some additional compensation for that.

That last point is significant. We'd have to take back enough salary to make the trade legal. If a team offers him, say, $25m a season, then we have to find a way to absorb a fairly big chunk.

Given that we're at @$131m for 11 guys next year (Kuz opting out; KP opting in), with a tax line presumably at $162m+, I guess we would be ok....

More of a problem, I guess, if we actually keep Kuz at that $25m figure, whereupon we're at $156m for 12 guys. If we lose our R1 pick, we'll fill out the roster with 2 cheap players & our R2 pick...?

[Frichuela]

From the line-ups thread...

Trade proposal: I'd trade Johnny Davis for Houston's Garuba today and twice on Sunday. It seems Usman gets very limited minutes in Houston, perhaps they bite..

[dckingsfan]

I can understand wanting to dump Todd but why would we give up on Davis, who just turned 21, so quickly?

Same reason as Carey and Todd. My take is he isn't going to be an impactful player at this level. We should know by the trade deadline next year.

Trade proposal: I'd trade Johnny Davis for Houston's Garuba today and twice on Sunday. It seems Usman gets very limited minutes in Houston, perhaps they bite..

Yep, I would include a 2nd rounder to make this happen. He would fit in fantastically next to Gafford & Porzingis.

Not sure Houston would bite - I wouldn't.

[payitforward]

This is the kind of trade no GM would EVER make.
You might as well ask Tommy to wear a sign on his forehead that reads "I'm an idiot."