Game 62: Phoenix Suns (33-28) @ Milwaukee Bucks (42-17) l Sunday l 11:00am l ABC

[handsome salary]

This game is great example of why the Suns need a KD. CP3 is shot, Book can't be the guy all the time and Ayton is not a take over player in crunch time. With the playoffs you need a guy that can be a needed shot/playmaker. Instead of running play after play with CP3 missing shots and Book fighting against a lot of the defense imagine adding in KD. Its gonna be really good.

Sucks to loose but they can hang with the best on their homecourt. Now just waiting on someone who can push them over that edge. How about KD?

[lilfishi22]

TJ being benched for ISH BLOODY WAINRIGHT is just disgusting tbh

I really agree on this… TJ has skill, but I think Suns dont count on him longterm he was just salary filler in trade, anyway I see that Ish will be out of 10 man rotation when KD start playing, I expect to see

Paul, Payne
Booker, Lee
Okogie, Ross
Durant, Craig
Ayton, Landale

and to be honeat against some teams maybe even Landale will not play, we can use KD sometimes in smallball lineups as 5 with Craig on 4… but I dont trust Landale so much

this is reason Landale was player on partizan belgrade my favourite team, I am Serbian from Belgrade and my favourite NBA players are Kd and Jokic obviously…

so I am here new on Suns forum, but I like franchise for long time

So to be back on point… I am not sure when Shamet comes back will he surpass Lee and one positive thing is Ross play for now

I dont understand so much Bazley aquistion if he dont play…

The Ish over TJ thing is so overblown, I can't help but laugh. The Suns just signed Ish to a 2 year deal, he's been in and practiced in this system for almost a year and a half and he's healthy. The trade to get TJ thrown in was a good insurance move but I don't think we traded for him so we play him 10-15mpg right away. It was clear in the few games he's played he's looked lost in our .5 system whereas Ish just knows what to do even if he doesn't do it as well as TJ can. Monty and the coaching staff is going to continue to watch TJ in practice and he'll have to earn his minutes just like everyone else, including Bazley.

As for the Bazley trade, I'd say it's 40% for cap reasons and 60% to have young guy with potential we hold rights to. Clearly Suns were not intent on resigning Dario so keeping him and likely not playing much if at all in the playoffs means we've wasted one of the few assets we had left. Turning Dario into Bazley is a completely fine move for me. When we're well over the cap and having given up all those picks, these are the type of gambles for youth you have to take imo.

[OneZilion]

This game is great example of why the Suns need a KD. CP3 is shot, Book can't be the guy all the time and Ayton is not a take over player in crunch time. With the playoffs you need a guy that can be a needed shot/playmaker.

Sucks to loose but they can hang with the best on their homecourt. Now just waiting on someone who can push them over that edge.

People sometimes underestimate and take for granted Kd… he is monster, he was takings awful Nets team on his shoulders after all drama and before his injury Nets was rolling last 18 of 20 games won…

last season injury slowed him down and that team was disaster and he had only one bad playoff series in his life vs Boston… but before that injury he came out of MVP campaign, considered best on planet, clearly best player on team US in Tokya and after monster and unlucky playoffs 2021…

People sometimes look like dont understand who he is, Suns just got one of the all time great players…

[Revived]

TJ being benched for ISH BLOODY WAINRIGHT is just disgusting tbh

I really agree on this… TJ has skill, but I think Suns dont count on him longterm he was just salary filler in trade, anyway I see that Ish will be out of 10 man rotation when KD start playing, I expect to see

Paul, Payne
Booker, Lee
Okogie, Ross
Durant, Craig
Ayton, Landale

and to be honeat against some teams maybe even Landale will not play, we can use KD sometimes in smallball lineups as 5 with Craig on 4… but I dont trust Landale so much

this is reason Landale was player on partizan belgrade my favourite team, I am Serbian from Belgrade and my favourite NBA players are Kd and Jokic obviously…

so I am here new on Suns forum, but I like franchise for long time

So to be back on point… I am not sure when Shamet comes back will he surpass Lee and one positive thing is Ross play for now

I dont understand so much Bazley aquistion if he dont play…

The Ish over TJ thing is so overblown, I can't help but laugh. The Suns just signed Ish to a 2 year deal, he's been in and practiced in this system for almost a year and a half and he's healthy. The trade to get TJ thrown in was a good insurance move but I don't think we traded for him so we play him 10-15mpg right away. It was clear in the few games he's played he's looked lost in our .5 system whereas Ish just knows what to do even if he doesn't do it as well as TJ can. Monty and the coaching staff is going to continue to watch TJ in practice and he'll have to earn his minutes just like everyone else, including Bazley.

As for the Bazley trade, I'd say it's 40% for cap reasons and 60% to have young guy with potential we hold rights to. Clearly Suns were not intent on resigning Dario so keeping him and likely not playing much if at all in the playoffs means we've wasted one of the few assets we had left. Turning Dario into Bazley is a completely fine move for me. When we're well over the cap and having given up all those picks, these are the type of gambles for youth you have to take imo.

Warren looked better in the few mins he’s played for the Suns than Wainwright has looked in any game played with the Suns in his career. He signed a vet min contract with a team option worth the same amount for next season. Just because a scrub has been there longer and knows the system doesn’t mean he should simply get minutes because of it. I’m sure you wouldn’t say Wainright should get more mins than KD who’s been here as long as Warren.

Of course Monty is the coach and he sees them in practice and all and we’re just fans. But that doesn’t mean his rotations are perfect or that he hasn’t played players who should’ve got mins. Jevon Carter being the biggest example of it as a guy that’s become arguably the best role player PG in the NBA today, basically a skilled version or Patrick Beverly. And Carter wasn’t some super young raw prospect with the Suns, he was like 24/25 or older when he was here and was a baller but Monty just never gave him the mins to really show it.

[lilfishi22]

I really agree on this… TJ has skill, but I think Suns dont count on him longterm he was just salary filler in trade, anyway I see that Ish will be out of 10 man rotation when KD start playing, I expect to see

Paul, Payne
Booker, Lee
Okogie, Ross
Durant, Craig
Ayton, Landale

and to be honeat against some teams maybe even Landale will not play, we can use KD sometimes in smallball lineups as 5 with Craig on 4… but I dont trust Landale so much

this is reason Landale was player on partizan belgrade my favourite team, I am Serbian from Belgrade and my favourite NBA players are Kd and Jokic obviously…

so I am here new on Suns forum, but I like franchise for long time

So to be back on point… I am not sure when Shamet comes back will he surpass Lee and one positive thing is Ross play for now

I dont understand so much Bazley aquistion if he dont play…

The Ish over TJ thing is so overblown, I can't help but laugh. The Suns just signed Ish to a 2 year deal, he's been in and practiced in this system for almost a year and a half and he's healthy. The trade to get TJ thrown in was a good insurance move but I don't think we traded for him so we play him 10-15mpg right away. It was clear in the few games he's played he's looked lost in our .5 system whereas Ish just knows what to do even if he doesn't do it as well as TJ can. Monty and the coaching staff is going to continue to watch TJ in practice and he'll have to earn his minutes just like everyone else, including Bazley.

As for the Bazley trade, I'd say it's 40% for cap reasons and 60% to have young guy with potential we hold rights to. Clearly Suns were not intent on resigning Dario so keeping him and likely not playing much if at all in the playoffs means we've wasted one of the few assets we had left. Turning Dario into Bazley is a completely fine move for me. When we're well over the cap and having given up all those picks, these are the type of gambles for youth you have to take imo.

Warren looked better in the few mins he’s played for the Suns than Wainwright has looked in any game played with the Suns in his career. He signed a vet min contract with a team option worth the same amount for next season. Just because a scrub has been there longer and knows the system doesn’t mean he should simply get minutes because of it. I’m sure you wouldn’t say Wainright should get more mins than KD who’s been here as long as Warren.

Of course Monty is the coach and he sees them in practice and all and we’re just fans. But that doesn’t mean his rotations are perfect or that he hasn’t played players who should’ve got mins. Jevon Carter being the biggest example of it as a guy that’s become arguably the best role player PG in the NBA today, basically a skilled version or Patrick Beverly. And Carter wasn’t some super young raw prospect with the Suns, he was like 24/25 or older when he was here and was a baller but Monty just never gave him the mins to really show it.

Absolute nonsense and that's coming from one of the biggest TJ fans on this board. There's no way you could conclusively say he looked better in 15min than Ish in the 1000+ minutes he's played for the Suns. I never said it was all about the time with the Suns but a new player, especially one who has come back from 2 years off and doesn't know the system at all nor has worked with Monty in the past, needs to show it in practice. KD has already earned his stripes as a former MVP and 2x champion etc etc so that's a silly comparison. As for Carter, it wasn't like he didn't have opportunities but he wasn't blowing anyone away either when he was playing. He's an awesome defender, good shooter but we needed to play guys who can run the system which he just can't. He's basically a 6ft nothing Crowder and again, this coming from a big Jevon Carter fan.

No one ever said Monty's rotations are perfect or even close to perfect but I trust him more than us fans who doesn't see what he sees in practice, especially if all you have to go on is 2 games totalling 15min of playing time.

[garrick]

*** crowder. Dude hits two shots all game and acts like he's involved

That’s literally what he has done his entire career, including when he was on the Suns… Dude is the bronze medal meme in human form.

Read on Twitter

He “wanted” this win probably more than he wanted to win in the finals 2 years ago or last year’s game 7.

He should be pissed at himself that the Nets only thought he was worth a handful of second round draft picks and was shipped out the moment he landed in Brooklyn.

He had his moments here but is a total diva and I still can't understand why the Suns said it was okay for him to stay at home and not earn his paycheck.

[SunsRback4Good]

That’s literally what he has done his entire career, including when he was on the Suns… Dude is the bronze medal meme in human form.

Read on Twitter

He “wanted” this win probably more than he wanted to win in the finals 2 years ago or last year’s game 7.

He should be pissed at himself that the Nets only thought he was worth a handful of second round draft picks and was shipped out the moment he landed in Brooklyn.

He had his moments here but is a total diva and I still can't understand why the Suns said it was okay for him to stay at home and not earn his paycheck.

I don like him please don’t show his photo ever again. Please just don’t!

[KLEON]

Lol ppl blaming Book when the real problem is our center who can't protect the paint. We need a big who can block shots and collect meaningful rebounds on both ends

Will that lead to better quality shots by Booker ?

Btw you were so close to getting your username right.

So do you also disagree with CP3 when he had to be telling a so called center who makes 30 plus mil a year to box out and play aggressive. Again we need a center who can protect the paint if we're serious about winning the chip. K.D alone can't save us when you are playing the Bucks and Celtics

[old skool]

This game is great example of why the Suns need a KD. CP3 is shot, Book can't be the guy all the time and Ayton is not a take over player in crunch time. With the playoffs you need a guy that can be a needed shot/playmaker. Instead of running play after play with CP3 missing shots and Book fighting against a lot of the defense imagine adding in KD. Its gonna be really good.

Sucks to loose but they can hang with the best on their homecourt. Now just waiting on someone who can push them over that edge. How about KD?

Durant is a great player, but has not won a season series against Milwaukee in any of the 5 seasons since Budenholzer became coach. Over those 5 seasons Durant's record against them is 3-7. 6-11 if you include playoff games.

[Revived]

The Ish over TJ thing is so overblown, I can't help but laugh. The Suns just signed Ish to a 2 year deal, he's been in and practiced in this system for almost a year and a half and he's healthy. The trade to get TJ thrown in was a good insurance move but I don't think we traded for him so we play him 10-15mpg right away. It was clear in the few games he's played he's looked lost in our .5 system whereas Ish just knows what to do even if he doesn't do it as well as TJ can. Monty and the coaching staff is going to continue to watch TJ in practice and he'll have to earn his minutes just like everyone else, including Bazley.

As for the Bazley trade, I'd say it's 40% for cap reasons and 60% to have young guy with potential we hold rights to. Clearly Suns were not intent on resigning Dario so keeping him and likely not playing much if at all in the playoffs means we've wasted one of the few assets we had left. Turning Dario into Bazley is a completely fine move for me. When we're well over the cap and having given up all those picks, these are the type of gambles for youth you have to take imo.

Warren looked better in the few mins he’s played for the Suns than Wainwright has looked in any game played with the Suns in his career. He signed a vet min contract with a team option worth the same amount for next season. Just because a scrub has been there longer and knows the system doesn’t mean he should simply get minutes because of it. I’m sure you wouldn’t say Wainright should get more mins than KD who’s been here as long as Warren.

Of course Monty is the coach and he sees them in practice and all and we’re just fans. But that doesn’t mean his rotations are perfect or that he hasn’t played players who should’ve got mins. Jevon Carter being the biggest example of it as a guy that’s become arguably the best role player PG in the NBA today, basically a skilled version or Patrick Beverly. And Carter wasn’t some super young raw prospect with the Suns, he was like 24/25 or older when he was here and was a baller but Monty just never gave him the mins to really show it.

Absolute nonsense and that's coming from one of the biggest TJ fans on this board. There's no way you could conclusively say he looked better in 15min than Ish in the 1000+ minutes he's played for the Suns. I never said it was all about the time with the Suns but a new player, especially one who has come back from 2 years off and doesn't know the system at all nor has worked with Monty in the past, needs to show it in practice. KD has already earned his stripes as a former MVP and 2x champion etc etc so that's a silly comparison. As for Carter, it wasn't like he didn't have opportunities but he wasn't blowing anyone away either when he was playing. He's an awesome defender, good shooter but we needed to play guys who can run the system which he just can't. He's basically a 6ft nothing Crowder and again, this coming from a big Jevon Carter fan.

No one ever said Monty's rotations are perfect or even close to perfect but I trust him more than us fans who doesn't see what he sees in practice, especially if all you have to go on is 2 games totalling 15min of playing time.

What does Wainright offer that you think Warren can’t? He gets blown by defensively because he’s slow and has very little lateral quickness. Either gives up the basket or commits dumb foul. He rarely drives despite having a strong build and to be fair to him, when he does drive, he has very little athleticism, so he gets blocked or stripped pretty quickly. So offensively his only value is standing at the 3pt line where he shoots 34% which is not at all a good % for a guy who can only do that. Rebounding wise, he gave us 4 rebounds in almost 20 mins of playing time…so that can’t be it right? Landale had double the rebounds in like 12 mins of playing time.

Btw me saying Warren should play over him has less to do with how great or amazing I think Warren and more to do with how terrible of a player Wainwright is. You can make the case that Warren is bad because he hasn’t played in 2 years or whatever and I can counter that with Wainright being a journeyman Europe basketball player that couldn’t even latch on to a team out there for very long and kept getting bounced around before ending up here. He’s on the Suns primarily because of his fun personality or whatever. And I appreciate Monty for helping change the culture around with the Suns and all that but he absolutely has favorites and plays guys that have no business getting minutes. He’s done this since getting hired here.

Btw a 6ft nothing Crowder that shoots 41% from 3 and gives opposing PGs ton of trouble even despite being undersized is a pretty damn good option btw and if guys like him and Crowder are making immediate impacts on a championship coach’s team then perhaps the “system” is broken and Monty Williams should to replicate more of the system that a championship HC like Budenholzer runs.

[lilfishi22]

Warren looked better in the few mins he’s played for the Suns than Wainwright has looked in any game played with the Suns in his career. He signed a vet min contract with a team option worth the same amount for next season. Just because a scrub has been there longer and knows the system doesn’t mean he should simply get minutes because of it. I’m sure you wouldn’t say Wainright should get more mins than KD who’s been here as long as Warren.

Of course Monty is the coach and he sees them in practice and all and we’re just fans. But that doesn’t mean his rotations are perfect or that he hasn’t played players who should’ve got mins. Jevon Carter being the biggest example of it as a guy that’s become arguably the best role player PG in the NBA today, basically a skilled version or Patrick Beverly. And Carter wasn’t some super young raw prospect with the Suns, he was like 24/25 or older when he was here and was a baller but Monty just never gave him the mins to really show it.

Absolute nonsense and that's coming from one of the biggest TJ fans on this board. There's no way you could conclusively say he looked better in 15min than Ish in the 1000+ minutes he's played for the Suns. I never said it was all about the time with the Suns but a new player, especially one who has come back from 2 years off and doesn't know the system at all nor has worked with Monty in the past, needs to show it in practice. KD has already earned his stripes as a former MVP and 2x champion etc etc so that's a silly comparison. As for Carter, it wasn't like he didn't have opportunities but he wasn't blowing anyone away either when he was playing. He's an awesome defender, good shooter but we needed to play guys who can run the system which he just can't. He's basically a 6ft nothing Crowder and again, this coming from a big Jevon Carter fan.

No one ever said Monty's rotations are perfect or even close to perfect but I trust him more than us fans who doesn't see what he sees in practice, especially if all you have to go on is 2 games totalling 15min of playing time.

What does Wainright offer that you think Warren can’t? He gets blown by defensively because he’s slow and has very little lateral quickness. Either gives up the basket or commits dumb foul. He rarely drives despite having a strong build and to be fair to him, when he does drive, he has very little athleticism, so he gets blocked or stripped pretty quickly. So offensively his only value is standing at the 3pt line where he shoots 34% which is not at all a good % for a guy who can only do that. Rebounding wise, he gave us 4 rebounds in almost 20 mins of playing time…so that can’t be it right? Landale had double the rebounds in like 12 mins of playing time.

Btw me saying Warren should play over him has less to do with how great or amazing I think Warren and more to do with how terrible of a player Wainwright is. You can make the case that Warren is bad because he hasn’t played in 2 years or whatever and I can counter that with Wainright being a journeyman Europe basketball player that couldn’t even latch on to a team out there for very long and kept getting bounced around before ending up here. He’s on the Suns primarily because of his fun personality or whatever. And I appreciate Monty for helping change the culture around with the Suns and all that but he absolutely has favorites and plays guys that have no business getting minutes. He’s done this since getting hired here.

Btw a 6ft nothing Crowder that shoots 41% from 3 and gives opposing PGs ton of trouble even despite being undersized is a pretty damn good option btw and if guys like him and Crowder are making immediate impacts on a championship coach’s team then perhaps the “system” is broken and Monty Williams should to replicate more of the system that a championship HC like Budenholzer runs.

My whole point in the beginning was that it's laughable to make a big thing out of the minutes played by 3rd stringers, especially considering one just got to the team not long ago. And I wasn't saying TJ is bad because he hasn't played in two years, I said he hasn't played in two years which means he needs time to get back into the fold of things given his long absence compared to a guy who's been with the team for two years. Monty played him in spot minutes in the Kings and Clippers games and he just didn't look great. He hit some nice shots but he looked lost on both ends of the court, which is what you expect from a guy coming to a new team.

When it comes to what I've seen of TJ this year in Brooklyn and what I've seen from Ish in his time here, I would say overall Ish is a better defender from the eye test. I'm not trying to nit-pick specific plays because then you'll get the argument Mikal is not a good defender because the opposing team's best scorer cooks him several times a game. So then I went to look at the advanced stats to see if maybe my eyes deceive me.

TJ Warren defensive stats 2023 (28 games, 505 min total)
DWS: 0.5
DBPM: -0.7
DRTG: 115 (for refernce
DFG% difference: +3.9% (ie scorers are 3.9% more efficient when guarded by TJ)

Ish Wainwright defensive stats 2023 (43 games, 667 min total):
DWS: 0.9
DBPM: 1.9
DRTG: 112
DFG% difference : -2.2% (ie scorers are 2.2% less efficient when guarded by Ish)

So if Ish, right now, is the better defender and TJ is looking lost on both ends of the court, why not give those rotation minutes to Ish (who we just signed to a full NBA deal) so we can keep running the sets we always run off the bench while he continues to play solid defense.

Offensively, I have no illusions that Ish is somehow better than TJ, there's no argument there. One guy has averaged almost 20ppg twice in this league while the other isn't that. But given the Ross signing, the return of Payne and the need for some size off the bench (Ish has a 7'2 wingspan vs TJ's 6'9), I can see why Monty prioritised Ish over TJ over the past few games. And to be clear, I'm not some Ish fanboy either. I think he's an average 3rd stringer who mostly does an average job as an average 3rd stringer would and I would've been fine if we had let him go to keep the roster spot open.

Now going forward, I would certainly like to see more of TJ given he was one of my favourite players of the McD era and I'm hoping he would be part of the regular rotation but all I'm saying is that I'm not making it out like it's some sort of travesty that Monty is putting Ish ahead of TJ right now.

As for Bud, he runs a system that's well suited to having one of the most physically dominant bigs in the history of the NBA. KD is a totally different kind of player, Book isn't that and DA certainly isn't that. So it makes no sense to run a system that is best suited to have Giannis running the show when we don't have a Giannis.

[handsome salary]

Still in 4th. Lost no ground. Now KD is scheduled to start playing. Gonna be hard to move up to 3rd. Staying in 4th means probably Clipper/Mavs/Warriors in 1st round. Jeez.

[NapoleonII]

Jae Crowder is dangerous when someone has slighted him, or taken away his perceived money bag.

He sucks in 90% of all other situations.

[handsome salary]

Jae Crowder sucks in 90% of all situations.

That's how I feel about Crowder. It's also how I'm feeling about CP3 now.

[sunsbg]

Payne is a trouble when not making shots. At least Monty realized it soon enough and let him chuck for 7 mins only.

[spanishninja]

Still in 4th. Lost no ground. Now KD is scheduled to start playing. Gonna be hard to move up to 3rd. Staying in 4th means probably Clipper/Mavs/Warriors in 1st round. Jeez.

best scenario might be for clips to overtake sac for third seed and us to be either 4 or 5 getting sac in the first round. in this scenario the macs stay 6 and we get another clips/mavs playoffs away from our bracket. we would then have to play Denver but in round 2.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't think it's really Ish vs Warren for real playing time because I don't think Ish will be in the rotation once KD is playing. So I understand Ish playing ahead of Warren these couple games because he's just got a ton more minutes with this system so short term it's the easier fit. If this was the first week of the season and a long term rotation spot was on the line it might be different.

When healthy if Okogie continues to start (and he should) it's really Ross, Lee, and Craig who TJ would need to over take for a spot. Not easy and one of those three likely gets squeezed out of the rotation in tbe playoffs anyway.

Now injuries could change this but as of now I don't really expect TJ to play.

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[sunsbg]

It's Monty's job to rotate the wings and give a chance to whoever shows better form. If Lee keeps shooting 20+ from three, why not give a chance to TJ.

[bwgood77]

Still in 4th. Lost no ground. Now KD is scheduled to start playing. Gonna be hard to move up to 3rd. Staying in 4th means probably Clipper/Mavs/Warriors in 1st round. Jeez.

It won't necessarily be that hard to pass the Kings if we stay healthy and go on a hot streak. We have the tiebreaker right now 2-0 but also still play them twice. 3 games back but if we win those two, that would put us only 1 game back of them. So those two games are very important. But knowing we are 3 games back with 2 games remaining against them and the likely tiebreaker, I feel pretty good about catching them.

I wonder what the preseason odds were though of the Kings winning the Pacific? Surely last behind the LA teams, GS and Phx...probably by a lot.

Of course if we move up to 3 it still probably means one of those teams in the first round. Even if we move up to 2 probably.

[Frank Lee]

Tony Buckets don’t need no system