Some Historical Plus-Minus

[Squared2020]

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[Squared2020]

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[Squared2020]

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[OhayoKD]

Thanks for sharing! Sure smarter folks than me can add some nuance. but from a cursory glance, Kareem looks pretty good

[penbeast0]

Hakeem in the regular season was not the reason he's a top 10 player all time though still a great player. It's his postseason.

If you have Bill Russell, I'd love to see it.
Bob Lanier is another one that I've always been skeptical of his defense and this gives a better statistical picture than just blocks and steals. Walt Bellamy as well.

[rk2023]

As always, thank you for providing such data. Even if +/- is not the end all be all, this is still very cool to see and commendable dedication towards tracking!

[Squared2020]

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[homecourtloss]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Plus-Minus

First of all, thank you for sharing all this data that you could’ve easily put behind a pay wall.

Secondly, I see why Kareem turns out so nicely in 1985 and in 1988 in your RAPM sets. I remember the rotations in these two years—what percentage of Kareem’s minutes would you say were on the floor with Magic’s?

Third, mods—can we sticky this thread?

[Squared2020]

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[penbeast0]

Hakeem in the regular season was not the reason he's a top 10 player all time though still a great player. It's his postseason.

If you have Bill Russell, I'd love to see it.
Bob Lanier is another one that I've always been skeptical of his defense and this gives a better statistical picture than just blocks and steals. Walt Bellamy as well.

That's fair for Hakeem. I have some postseason numbers, but use regular season for RAPM.

On this computer, 1980, 1985, 1988, 1991, and 1996 data loaded. I think there's only two Lanier games in there at the moment. I know I have some 1970 and 1978 data lingering somewhere on my hard drives.

Not sure how much I have for Russell and Bellamy.

Thanks, just thought I'd check because the older the player, the less data we have for them generally speaking.

[70sFan]

I want to thank you so much for your work and that you're kind enough to share the results. I can't even imagine how much time it required to do everything you have posted here and on your site.

I really like your lineup charts as well, very helpful in the future!

[SpreeS]

I want to thank you so much for your work and that you're kind enough to share the results. I can't even imagine how much time it required to do everything you have posted here and on your site.

I really like your lineup charts as well, very helpful in the future!

Could you give his site?

[WestGOAT]

First of all, thank you for sharing all this dad I wish you could’ve easily put behind a pay wall.

Secondly, I see why Kareem turns out so nicely in 1985 and in 1988 in your RAPM sets. I remember the rotations and dash in these two years, what percentage of Kareem’s minutes would you say were on the floor with Magic’s?

Third, mods—can we sticky this thread?

I don't know that percentage, but here's the estimated playing time from the stint data I've created. The more YELLOW a part of the graph, the higher the percentage of time the player was on the floor. The more BLUE a part of the graph, the less the percentage of time the player was on the floor.

Left to right is seconds elapsed in a game: 0 : Tip-Off, 720 : Start of 2nd Period, 1440: Halftime, 2160: Start of 4th Period, 2880: End of regulation (No overtime shown... it'll all look blue)

1980 LA Lakers


1985 LA Lakers


1988 LA Lakers

Love how visually-appealing and intuitive these heatmap charts are!

Could you btw elaborate why you personally despise RAPM? Based on my limited understanding of how it's actually calculated the standard errors are very large so it's a not a very precise measure, especially single-season data (so not a big fan myself when people use it for single season comparisons), but it's pretty much the best there is when it's comes to adjusting purely +/- data for multicollinearity ?

What do you mean with the ratings of 25's and 33's?

(many stints are 2-3 offensive possessions leading to ratings on the 25's and 33's -- and nothing in-between

[70sFan]

I want to thank you so much for your work and that you're kind enough to share the results. I can't even imagine how much time it required to do everything you have posted here and on your site.

I really like your lineup charts as well, very helpful in the future!

Could you give his site?

https://squared2020.com/

[eminence]

Bit of a summary for Hakeem:

-50 games played, 24-26 (48%) over a period where the Rockets overall won 58.4% of their games, so individual and team on-court ratings lower than one would expect

102.8 Off Rating, 101.8 Def Rating (/100), +1.0 Net on/court

+43 over a period his team was -19, so in the +6 range for on/off without going through to check pace with and without

[f4p]

those playtime charts are amazing. never thought of visualizing it like that. i know the lakers probably played a decent amount of blowouts, but it's surprising how little their starters played at the end of the 4th, at least going by how yellow the end of the 2nd quarter usually is.

[Squared2020]

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[colts18]

Squared2020,

Awesome work there. Are you able to post the Plus/Minus numbers for MJ and Stockton/Malone? There are so many arguments about those players on this site that used your numbers.

[eminence]

Bit of a summary for Hakeem:

-50 games played, 24-26 (48%) over a period where the Rockets overall won 58.4% of their games, so individual and team on-court ratings lower than one would expect

102.8 Off Rating, 101.8 Def Rating (/100), +1.0 Net on/court

+43 over a period his team was -19, so in the +6 range for on/off without going through to check pace with and without

Kareem, just the '85 to '88 season samples (thought a bit too much of a jump from '78/'80 to include them)

-76 games played (or portions of games tracked I suppose), 56-20 (73.7%) vs 76.5% overall, so probably a bit more accurate On ratings, though still likely a slight underestimation

112.6 Off Rating, 101.9 Def Rating, +10.7 Net (the Lakers were good?!? Really good)

+489 for Kareem in sample, +369 for the Lakers, my estimate would be in the +4 on/off range Edit: whoops, +9 range

Really pretty impressive results for Kareem, from a sample that leans towards his '87/'88 seasons.

[Colbinii]

Bit of a summary for Hakeem:

-50 games played, 24-26 (48%) over a period where the Rockets overall won 58.4% of their games, so individual and team on-court ratings lower than one would expect

102.8 Off Rating, 101.8 Def Rating (/100), +1.0 Net on/court

+43 over a period his team was -19, so in the +6 range for on/off without going through to check pace with and without

Kareem, just the '85 to '88 season samples (thought a bit too much of a jump from '78/'80 to include them)

-76 games played (or portions of games tracked I suppose), 56-20 (73.7%) vs 76.5% overall, so probably a bit more accurate On ratings, though still likely a slight underestimation

112.6 Off Rating, 101.9 Def Rating, +10.7 Net (the Lakers were good?!? Really good)

+489 for Kareem in sample, +369 for the Lakers, my estimate would be in the +4 on/off range

Really pretty impressive results for Kareem, from a sample that leans towards his '87/'88 seasons.

These look similar to Duncan from 2010-2013 [Duncan was +9.2 On and +5.6 On/Off]