ImageImageImageImage

2023 NBA Draft Thread

Moderators: UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior

Skybox
RealGM
Posts: 18,604
And1: 8,543
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1741 » by Skybox » Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:23 pm

RichCollab wrote:Give me Grady Dick and Nick Smith Jr. and a center with our 2nd round pick.


This is where I'm at too...but I'm kind of hoping Goga shows he's capable of filling that physical, matchup-dependent backup Center role. We can always use our 2rp for a Jaden Hardy, Cam Thomas type to stick in the G League and see if he takes over.

If Smith shows he's fully healthy...he's right in our Top 5 range, IMO. He's a pretty complete modern Guard from what I have seen. Dick would be great (although I'm also hoping Houstan gets a chance to show he's ready to go full Korver/Kispert/Duncan Robinson for us).
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 23,408
And1: 19,505
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1742 » by pepe1991 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:47 pm

Gradey Dick fits need but i'm not sure his upside is all that high.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon
RichCollab
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,374
And1: 1,415
Joined: Oct 23, 2019
         

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1743 » by RichCollab » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Gradey Dick fits need but i'm not sure his upside is all that high.


I agree with this statement. I’m ok with it if we take him 8th or later.

What’s your thoughts on Nick Smith Jr.?
JoshuaPotter
Analyst
Posts: 3,642
And1: 1,041
Joined: Dec 19, 2022
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1744 » by JoshuaPotter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:43 pm

eyriq wrote:Funny to think there's a world where we are in a position to draft both Thompson twins.


Lol, depending how the picks fall. Why not, we pick up the Franz brothers and have both Wilkins brothers play for us at some point. Even though different times.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 28,733
And1: 29,786
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Jersey
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1745 » by Knightro » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:17 pm

eyriq wrote:Seems like this draft has five tiers in the lottery

Tier 1
Wemby

Tier 2
Scoot

Tier 3
Miller
Amen
Walker
Black
Whitmore

Tier 4
Ausar
Nick Smith Jr
Keyonte

Tier 5
Wallace
Dick
Sensabaugh
Howard


IMO there's not a *huge* difference between Tier 3 and Tier 4 for me.

Like if you told me Nick Smith or Keyonte George was the 4th best player in the draft, I wouldn't argue with you too severely.

More eye of the beholder than clearly defined.
jonbob17
Analyst
Posts: 3,481
And1: 1,440
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1746 » by jonbob17 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:35 pm

Bensational wrote:
eyriq wrote:Seems like this draft has five tiers in the lottery


I see Wemby and Scoot being 1a and 1b like Oden and Durant once were. I think Miller is his own tier compared to the rest of the crop. After that, Tier 3 for me is a larger pool and harder to divide. Tier 4 is late lottery.

Tier 1
Wemby
Scoot

Tier 2
Miller

Tier 3
Black
George
Wallace
Amen
Walker
Whitmore
Nick Smith Jr

Tier 4
Dick
Ausar
Sensabaugh
Howard


I would say you could almost make this a three tier draft, if we are combining Wemby and Scoot into 1. Miller is certainly top of tier 2, though I have no idea what to make of all this murder stuff....doesn't sound good.

Tier 1
Wemby
1b Scoot

Tier 2
Miller (for now)
Amen .... probably a pass from me given the Magic's inability to teach kids to shoot.
Wallace
Black
Dick
Walker

Tier 3
Nick Smith Jr??? no idea
George
Hendricks
Whitmore
Rupert
Ausar
Sensabaugh

Top of the next tier
Kris Murray
Baba Miller
Maxwell Lewis
Jett Howard
Whitehead
GG Jackson
Filipowski

I think this draft is going to end up having some depth, but I think there are going to be a lot of landmines in tier 3 and maybe a couple in tier 2. Lots of holes, and probably development of the tier 3 and later guys.
Ideally we need two top 8 picks.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 28,733
And1: 29,786
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Jersey
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1747 » by Knightro » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:35 pm

Petre1978 wrote:
drsd wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:This would be very disappointing


I think this is a better use of words stating what I meant by it "being wld".

If the Magic draft "athletes" I will cry.


..

The Magic need guys who can make shots from the perimeter


Yes, but history has shown over time that guys who can make perimeter shots and don't do much else - your Duncan Robinson, Luke Kennard, Doug McDermott, Gary Harris types - aren't all that valuable.

That's my concern with Dick. I don't see a whole lot there in terms of being a defender or a guy who can really do a ton off the dribble.

As a pure catch-and-shoot guy? As a come firing off screens and shoot off movement guy? Yeah, he's great. But I do question how valuable that really is overall.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 28,733
And1: 29,786
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Jersey
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1748 » by Knightro » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:39 pm

Knightro wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
drsd wrote:
I think this is a better use of words stating what I meant by it "being wld".

If the Magic draft "athletes" I will cry.


..

The Magic need guys who can make shots from the perimeter


Yes, but history has shown over time that guys who can make perimeter shots and don't do much else - your Duncan Robinson, Luke Kennard, Doug McDermott, Gary Harris types - aren't all that valuable.

That's my concern with Dick. I don't see a whole lot there in terms of being a defender or a guy who can really do a ton off the dribble.

As a pure catch-and-shoot guy? As a come firing off screens and shoot off movement guy? Yeah, he's great. But I do question how valuable that really is overall.


Let's put it another way...

If my choices are...

45% 3PT shooter who can't defend or 38% 3PT shooter who can defend, I'm taking the latter 100 times out of 100.
Petre1978
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,790
And1: 431
Joined: Oct 31, 2021
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1749 » by Petre1978 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:49 pm

Knightro wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:The Magic need guys who can make shots from the perimeter


Yes, but history has shown over time that guys who can make perimeter shots and don't do much else - your Duncan Robinson, Luke Kennard, Doug McDermott, Gary Harris types - aren't all that valuable.

That's my concern with Dick. I don't see a whole lot there in terms of being a defender or a guy who can really do a ton off the dribble.

As a pure catch-and-shoot guy? As a come firing off screens and shoot off movement guy? Yeah, he's great. But I do question how valuable that really is overall.


Let's put it another way...

If my choices are...

45% 3PT shooter who can't defend or 38% 3PT shooter who can defend, I'm taking the latter 100 times out of 100.

So take Cason Wallace over Dick and Howard.
Good 3pt shooter and defender.

Maybe even Jarace Walker and Anthony Black.
Petre1978
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,790
And1: 431
Joined: Oct 31, 2021
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1750 » by Petre1978 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:50 pm

I take Cason Wallace over the Thompson twins.
jonbob17
Analyst
Posts: 3,481
And1: 1,440
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1751 » by jonbob17 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:51 pm

Knightro wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
drsd wrote:
I think this is a better use of words stating what I meant by it "being wld".

If the Magic draft "athletes" I will cry.


..

The Magic need guys who can make shots from the perimeter


Yes, but history has shown over time that guys who can make perimeter shots and don't do much else - your Duncan Robinson, Luke Kennard, Doug McDermott, Gary Harris types - aren't all that valuable.

That's my concern with Dick. I don't see a whole lot there in terms of being a defender or a guy who can really do a ton off the dribble.

As a pure catch-and-shoot guy? As a come firing off screens and shoot off movement guy? Yeah, he's great. But I do question how valuable that really is overall.


This was my concern with Gradey DIck initially too, but as the college season has progressed his defensive numbers have held up. I think he has shown he is more than just a 3 point shooter, but like you isn't really creating much off the dribble. He is getting to the line 2.7 times a game, would indicate he's getting to the basket some.
DBPM isn't the end all/say all, but at 3.0 it holds up pretty well against other top college players, the dominant defensive players have much higher BPM, but outside those known excellent defenders Gradey Dick is right there. It maybe be a red flag statistic for other guys George 1.4, Nick Smith -.2, GG -1.4, Sensabaugh 1, Murray 0.4

I am starting to think he can be a successful nba starting level player. If he can just be a slightly below average defender, he probably has plenty of value. There probably is some bust potential though...there is bust potential with most of these guys.

I ususally hate the idea of guys with one dominant skill, but i think Dick might have enough other marginal skills to be a valuable contributor
OrlandoMagic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,856
And1: 457
Joined: Feb 11, 2006

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1752 » by OrlandoMagic » Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:38 pm

So depending on who ends up with the number two pick, I would seriously try and trade a young asset and our two picks and see if we can nab the number two pick.

If not I would prefer to trade the two picks for a solid PG and use our FA money on some solid rotational players.

Worst case for me is to just draft our two picks and go crazy this FA
JoshuaPotter
Analyst
Posts: 3,642
And1: 1,041
Joined: Dec 19, 2022
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1753 » by JoshuaPotter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:41 pm

OrlandoMagic wrote:So depending on who ends up with the number two pick, I would seriously try and trade a young asset and our two picks and see if we can nab the number two pick.

If not I would prefer to trade the two picks for a solid PG and use our FA money on some solid rotational players.

Worst case for me is to just draft our two picks and go crazy this FA


What young asset do we have that is a lock in terms of snatching a no 2 pick?
jezzerinho
Analyst
Posts: 3,171
And1: 2,227
Joined: Jul 08, 2019
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1754 » by jezzerinho » Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:22 pm

I have Jordan Hawkins ranked higher than Gradey. More iso potential, can get to the line, more vertical athleticism, better handler, impeccable shooting form on high volume.

Both have their issues staying in front of shifty guards, but i'd call their on-ball D a wash.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 37,598
And1: 14,992
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1755 » by basketballRob » Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:29 pm

The Thompson twins don't fit our team. I'm not even sure I'd pick them over Keyon.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
Petre1978
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,790
And1: 431
Joined: Oct 31, 2021
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1756 » by Petre1978 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:40 pm

jezzerinho wrote:I have Jordan Hawkins ranked higher than Gradey. More iso potential, can get to the line, more vertical athleticism, better handler, impeccable shooting form on high volume.

Both have their issues staying in front of shifty guards, but i'd call their on-ball D a wash.

Hawkins is far behind Gradey in the mock drafts.
User avatar
eyriq
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,315
And1: 9,739
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: #TheLab
Contact:
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1757 » by eyriq » Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:53 pm

basketballRob wrote:The Thompson twins don't fit our team. I'm not even sure I'd pick them over Keyon.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
My thing is that they are 6'7 guards with elite athleticism. How many prospects with size, elite athleticism, guard skills, high productivity, defensive motors, with poor shooting, flame out? Plus it seems like they have good characters and high work ethic. I'm intrigued and could see Amen giving Scoot a run for his money as the best PG in this draft and Ausar giving Keyonte a run for his money as the best SG in this draft.
User avatar
VFX
RealGM
Posts: 18,674
And1: 16,427
Joined: May 30, 2016

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1758 » by VFX » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:20 pm

eyriq wrote:
basketballRob wrote:The Thompson twins don't fit our team. I'm not even sure I'd pick them over Keyon.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
My thing is that they are 6'7 guards with elite athleticism. How many prospects with size, elite athleticism, guard skills, high productivity, defensive motors, with poor shooting, flame out? Plus it seems like they have good characters and high work ethic. I'm intrigued and could see Amen giving Scoot a run for his money as the best PG in this draft and Ausar giving Keyonte a run for his money as the best SG in this draft.


The counterpoint to that statement is that Orlando should be building a real roster at some point.

Shooting /Shot creation from the perimeter are the largest issues with this team. If neither of those guys do that well, then I don't know how you can advocate taking both with the draft picks.

At some point the pieces have to start making sense together.

If you are in a cake baking competition, then it doesn't matter how many premiere ingredients you have at your disposal if you still cant bake a cake.
AaronB
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,522
And1: 661
Joined: Sep 28, 2021

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1759 » by AaronB » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:08 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
eyriq wrote:
basketballRob wrote:The Thompson twins don't fit our team. I'm not even sure I'd pick them over Keyon.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
My thing is that they are 6'7 guards with elite athleticism. How many prospects with size, elite athleticism, guard skills, high productivity, defensive motors, with poor shooting, flame out? Plus it seems like they have good characters and high work ethic. I'm intrigued and could see Amen giving Scoot a run for his money as the best PG in this draft and Ausar giving Keyonte a run for his money as the best SG in this draft.


The counterpoint to that statement is that Orlando should be building a real roster at some point.

Shooting /Shot creation from the perimeter are the largest issues with this team. If neither of those guys do that well, then I don't know how you can advocate taking both with the draft picks.

At some point the pieces have to start making sense together. If you are in a cake baking competition, then it doesn't matter how many premiere ingredients you have at your disposal if you still cant bake a cake.


The closest comp to the Thompson brothers is the Ball brothers.

I think if the Magic draft 7 or below, both brothers are gone.
JoshuaPotter
Analyst
Posts: 3,642
And1: 1,041
Joined: Dec 19, 2022
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1760 » by JoshuaPotter » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:12 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
eyriq wrote:
basketballRob wrote:The Thompson twins don't fit our team. I'm not even sure I'd pick them over Keyon.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
My thing is that they are 6'7 guards with elite athleticism. How many prospects with size, elite athleticism, guard skills, high productivity, defensive motors, with poor shooting, flame out? Plus it seems like they have good characters and high work ethic. I'm intrigued and could see Amen giving Scoot a run for his money as the best PG in this draft and Ausar giving Keyonte a run for his money as the best SG in this draft.


The counterpoint to that statement is that Orlando should be building a real roster at some point.

Shooting /Shot creation from the perimeter are the largest issues with this team. If neither of those guys do that well, then I don't know how you can advocate taking both with the draft picks.

At some point the pieces have to start making sense together. If you are in a cake baking competition, then it doesn't matter how many premiere ingredients you have at your disposal if you still cant bake a cake.


Unless there is a CJ Mcollum or a Damian Llilard type impact player where we are drafting then its going to get messy if we draft solely via need per say. See Bamba, Mario, Elfrid as example of just drafting on need being weighted one too many ways.

Easily can fall for the same trap here is all I am saying.

Return to Orlando Magic