Since last season, Klay has averaged 27 PPG on 59% TS w/out Curry

[Ein Sof]

Source

A few questions:
- does that change your opinion on Curry's help?
- does that change your opinion on Klay's ranking?
- how would Klay do as the #1 of a team?

[Owly]

1) Little to functionally not at all. I think this sort of info could be better gleaned over a larger sample and with more data by using lineup in-out stuff rather than 25 games over 2 years. Now if this sample really helps how he looks in those stats, this added sample would help, but not so much these cruder numbers.
2) Not really. See 1.
3) In terms of "how does it change perception of ..." Curry out gives a bit more of an off sample and maybe at the margins we can argue it's different being a number 1 option for the game and both teams planning for such, so maybe there's slightly more information added on the as no 1/without Curry side. Still whilst Durant's there for half of it, it's not like 17-18 to 20-21 doesn't give us a fair chunk of Curry off sample.

My impression was (probably via Ben Taylor, TB podcast) was that he was still a very good shooter but less elite than with.

Very loose impression on how he does without (generally leaving the detail of this this to those who know more) he'd score more at a lower percentage. Guess with the likely loss of narrative significance he's probably hurt quite a bit in mainstream rankings (unless, I suppose ppg up is sufficient to counter this for some).

[rand]

That's interesting because over the course of his career Klay is -2% TS without Curry while being +0.5 PPG. Wonder what, if anything, is different these past two years.

[OhayoKD]

Can someone who isn't lazy like myself tell me how those numbers look relative to league average?

Sidebar: Have heard TS+ is actually better than RTS but im rusty on the why

[eminence]

Can someone who isn't lazy like myself tell me how those numbers look relative to league average?

Sidebar: Have heard TS+ is actually better than RTS but im rusty on the why

Very minimal difference between the two. TS+ is a little easier to pull up these days I guess.

[SpreeS]

11w 14L about right

[Ein Sof]

Looks like he scored 30 again.

1) Little to functionally not at all. I think this sort of info could be better gleaned over a larger sample and with more data by using lineup in-out stuff rather than 25 games over 2 years. Now if this sample really helps how he looks in those stats, this added sample would help, but not so much these cruder numbers.
2) Not really. See 1.
3) In terms of "how does it change perception of ..." Curry out gives a bit more of an off sample and maybe at the margins we can argue it's different being a number 1 option for the game and both teams planning for such, so maybe there's slightly more information added on the as no 1/without Curry side. Still whilst Durant's there for half of it, it's not like 17-18 to 20-21 doesn't give us a fair chunk of Curry off sample.

My impression was (probably via Ben Taylor, TB podcast) was that he was still a very good shooter but less elite than with.

Very loose impression on how he does without (generally leaving the detail of this this to those who know more) he'd score more at a lower percentage. Guess with the likely loss of narrative significance he's probably hurt quite a bit in mainstream rankings (unless, I suppose ppg up is sufficient to counter this for some).

Can you elaborate on this lineup in-out stuff?

It sounds like you're claiming that Klay playing like 5 minutes with Curry on the bench is exactly the same as him going into a game knowing he's the #1 on the team, but that can't possibly be it.

[Owly]

Looks like he scored 30 again.

1) Little to functionally not at all. I think this sort of info could be better gleaned over a larger sample and with more data by using lineup in-out stuff rather than 25 games over 2 years. Now if this sample really helps how he looks in those stats, this added sample would help, but not so much these cruder numbers.
2) Not really. See 1.
3) In terms of "how does it change perception of ..." Curry out gives a bit more of an off sample and maybe at the margins we can argue it's different being a number 1 option for the game and both teams planning for such, so maybe there's slightly more information added on the as no 1/without Curry side. Still whilst Durant's there for half of it, it's not like 17-18 to 20-21 doesn't give us a fair chunk of Curry off sample.

My impression was (probably via Ben Taylor, TB podcast) was that he was still a very good shooter but less elite than with.

Very loose impression on how he does without (generally leaving the detail of this this to those who know more) he'd score more at a lower percentage. Guess with the likely loss of narrative significance he's probably hurt quite a bit in mainstream rankings (unless, I suppose ppg up is sufficient to counter this for some).

Can you elaborate on this lineup in-out stuff?

It sounds like you're claiming that Klay playing like 5 minutes with Curry on the bench is exactly the same as him going into a game knowing he's the #1 on the team, but that can't possibly be it.

I'm not really claiming anything.

And I specifically state that at the margins being the number one for a game will can be thought of as somewhat different (though it could be argued that is in iteself different from being an actual number one where you will definitely have been long-term scouted as the number one option, versus "he might be their number one option tonight" [depending on how much the opponents know that Thompson will be available and Curry will not] and we have this limited amount of info in him as the long term first option).

So without seeking to take this somewhere unproductive I don't see how one could get the reading you apparently took, I would say my post never says what you seem to have taken whilst expressly raising the viability of a position that contradicts your reading.

If your question was intended to be regarding how large the difference is ... I don't claim great expertise, but honestly as implied above my guess would be small. It's not like internal scouting and analysis departments don't have a lot of manpower and data and only plan, prepare for one lineup. If there's minimal time for passing on such analysis for RS games ... well then there's minimal time for passing on that info for that first lineup too. I don't know how much any additional opponent opponent prep time would be countered by internal prep time. With counterfactuals we should always acknowledge uncertainty.

As above, overall, my priority would be on using the much larger sample of his career, and getting much more data from it than 2 numbers from one aspect of the game (shooting) off a 25 game sample from 2 years.

[parsnips33]

After not 1 but 2 major injuries. One of the best stories in sports right now, it's a shame the Dubs mediocre record is stealing away any attention

[DonaldSanders]

Source

A few questions:
- does that change your opinion on Curry's help?

No, this is a tiny sample size. Check Klay's TS% in the playoffs rather than a small group of non Curry games if we want to examine Curry's help.

Last Finals Klay shot 48.4% and for the whole playoffs 55%.

Most of the quoted sample is from this season -- if Klay has a hot streak this playoffs and propels the Warriors far, we can talk about how much Klay is helping then (but he wasn't a big factor last championship). Sure, Klay has been a great player in the past for the Warriors but his career postseason TS% is 55.8%. What has really always separated Klay was his on-ball defense which has now been hit by injuries/age. He's a good player, but it feels you are reaching with this "does this change your opinion on Curry's help."

- does that change your opinion on Klay's ranking?

No, I don't see how such a small sample from the regular season ever should, Klay is already a HoF player. Some of these games are against terrible opponents, e.g. the Rockets where he went 12/17 from 3 are the same team that Lillard just went for 71 against. Klay has his history in stone already as a part of the Warriors core trio though, and I am happy for Klay; he has bounced back finally from the injuries and is starting to look like his old self on offense, though his D will never quite be the same.

- how would Klay do as the #1 of a team?

At his peak he'd be a very low end #1, not good enough to win a title. He has always been the #3 most important player of the Warriors trio, a little behind Draymond.