Krawczynski: Tim Connelly as POBO (Official! page 6)

[Battletrigger]

Can we say with no doubt that bring Connelly here was a big mistake or are we still fooling ourselves with the Kyle Anderson signing?

[minimus]

Can we say with no doubt that bring Connelly here was a big mistake or are we still fooling ourselves with the Kyle Anderson signing?

Rosas traded Wiggins for DLo and #7 pick, drafted Culver, Bolmaro. But he brought here Ant, MCD, Vando, Bealsey, Beverley, TP, Reid, Nowell, JMac. And found Finch. Unfortunately he could not control his penis and was very dogmatic in building small ball five-out roster. I liked Rosas vision a lot, he was a perfect startup manager, who could completely turn around this franchise in three years despite COVID problems.

Connelly traded Vando, Bealsey, Beverley, Kessler and multiple picks FRPs for DLo for Gobert, Conley, NAW and three SRPs. But he brought here KA, re-signed TP, drafted Moore, Minott. He should have been good maintenance/execution manager for small market team: draft wisely, improve incrementally, build consistency. But he made instead a big move which left us without much room to use his best skills as at scouting, drafting and development. There are some really weird decision made on higher level of organisation. And I still believe they can make it work, but real life scenario looks like we are trying to fix wheels problems on racing car during race.

[shrink]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

[Baseline81]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

I will continue to say this until I'm blue in the face -- why would you go all in on an experiment? It's one thing to use a first round pick to test whether Towns and another center (Kessler) could work, but trading away four future first round picks (and a pick swap) as well as complimentary players is inexcusable. Future flexibility is gone.

I was for running it back. Despite how you remember last season, the Wolves were capable of defeating the Grizzlies. It wasn't as if they were played out of the gym. And this year, we've seen growth in both Edwards and McDaniels. I will agree without Towns, the Wolves likely wouldn't be in the same position they are now; however, knowing today's situation, does that matter?

[jpatrick]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

I understand what you’re saying. We lost to Memphis because of lack of rebounding and rim protection, so let’s go all-in on the best rebounder rim protector in the league. The problem is this ignored fit. On offense it’s clunky and that was expected to some extent. But on defense, Rudy’s lack of versatility forces us to play a style that is not the strength of anyone else. I believe our record without Rudy is as good if not better than with him.

But that is actually not my biggest complaint. We gave away ALL avenues of improvement. We, our course, gave away all our future picks that we could. That’s particularly troublesome bc Connelly’s strength as a GM is as a scout/drafter.

Unlike most star trades, we also gave away several very good players as filler. You can see how Beasley/Vando elevated the Lakers. I’ve now seen Vando be called the best non-rookie contract in the NBA. Not to mention Kessler, who already has more trade value on his contract than Gobert on his (I’m convinced of this and may make a good trade board question).

Finally, this trade forced the DLo trade. Before this trade, we could have just kept DLo, let him expire, and we would have had max cap room this offseason. Maybe we use that to sign someone. Maybe we trade for someone into that slot. We had lots of options. Now, we were forced to trade for Conley to have a contract to trade, even though we have no assets to attach to that contract in a trade.

Long story short, even with KAT coming back, I don’t see a scenario that we’re better than a middling West team. And now we have closed all areas to improve. It was a trade that was rightfully criticized by everyone outside of MN when it happened and that everyone now rightfully says is a disaster.

[Note30]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

You're calling our defense a gimmick. Doesn't mean it was. It didn't get schemed out in Memphis we just couldn't get a rebound to save our lives and Brandon Clarke ate our whole team for lunch.

I honestly would run it back with Anderson and a taller guard. I think we'd be fine.

If we were going to make a big splashy trade I would have done this for a two way wing or guard at high impact/ star/ superstar level.

I would have kept Bev and Vanderbilt.

Sent DLo, Beasley, McLaughlin, Bolmaro packing.

KA and TP were great signings.

Roll out with

X/Bev
Edwards/x
McDaniels/TP
Anderson/JV
KAT/Reid

Trade targets (primary) (ranked)
1. Shai
2. Haliburton
3. Smart
4. Caruso
5. Lillard
6. D.Murray

Trade Targets (Secondary)(ranked)
1. Dillon Brooks (not feasible)
2. Lu Dort
3. Josh Hart
4. Terrence Mann
5. Herb Jones


FAs (instead of Rivers and Forbes)
Bruce Brown
Donte DiVicenzo
Victor Oladipo
Yuta Watanabe
Joe Ingles
Hamidou Diallo

I would have swung for the fences with Shai and Dort. Would have gone way harder for DiVicenzo and more player.

Shai/DiVicenzo/Bev
Edwards/Dort
McDaniels/TP/(Watanabe or Ingles or Diallo)
Anderson/JV
KAT/Reid /Garza

If we had thrown all our picks in the trash for that roster? I would have gladly taken whatever result because our roster wouldn't have been on a ticking clock. Our guards are young and extremely talented and good on defense and locked in for long contracts. Our wings and forwards are a good mix and versatile and have a solid vet presence.

Way better than throwing all of our assets for an aging Gobert and Conley who weren't even the best players on their team. So yeah had I had Kahnelleys job I would have done something like that.

[MN7725]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

During the summer Zach Lowe was really pushing Wolves trading for D Murray

I'm not a huge Murray fan, but I remember posting at the time of both trades I thought going from Russell to Murray would impact the Wolves rebounding/defense issues more than going from Vanderbilt to Gobert, and I still believe that

[GopherIt!]

Some good comments here.

The 2021-22 group played w tremendous synergy that was almost magical. If u are an NBA Pobo/gm, u hope and dream of that type of team chemistry. That is so hard to create in a league filled w prima donnas. You take that chemistry and tweek it but are careful not to undo it. Our $8 million dollar leader completely destroyed that energy in a single move.

There were also lots of options. There was flexibility. Spending $40M on one player kills flexibility. Sending out 5 picks/swaps kills flexibility. The fundamental problem w the Rudy trade is Connelly essentially went all in w the team’s assets. If the Wolves had a legit chance to make a deep playoff run it would be worth it.

The Western conference is not strong this season and the Suns FO realized this and went for it. Their move makes some rational sense. Connelly’s move makes little sense. Not even w a healthy Karl Towns. DLo/Kat/Rudy and a 21yo Ant was never making a deep playoff run in the West, even in a down year. G.S., Memphis & either LA team healthy would simply steal the 3 stooges lunch money. Now add in Phoenix w Durant/Paul. That’s 5 teams I would never bet against vs MN in a playoff series.

Utah was shrewd in that they built their roster around Rudy to maximize his skill and then sold high. Rudy is a unique player who requires the line up be built around him in a specific way. Minnesota and he are a horrible fit. Our $8M roster expert and his team somehow failed to see this.

edit - I forgot Denver but now Bron is out several weeks. Still five teams.

[Klomp]

Some good comments here.

The 2021-22 group played w tremendous synergy that was almost magical. If u are an NBA Pobo/gm, u hope and dream of that type of team chemistry. That is so hard to create in a league filled w prima donnas. You take that chemistry and tweek it but are careful not to undo it. Our $8 million dollar leader completely destroyed that energy in a single move.

There were also lots of options. There was flexibility. Spending $40M on one player kills flexibility. Sending out 5 picks/swaps kills flexibility. The fundamental problem w the Rudy trade is Connelly essentially went all in w the team’s assets. If the Wolves had a legit chance to make a deep playoff run it would be worth it.

The Western conference is not strong this season and the Suns FO realized this and went for it. Their move makes some rational sense. Connelly’s move makes little sense. Not even w a healthy Karl Towns. DLo/Kat/Rudy and a 21yo Ant was never making a deep playoff in the West, even in a down year. G.S., Memphis & either LA team healthy would simply steal the 3 stooges lunch money. Now add in Phoenix w Durant/Paul. That’s 5 teams I would never bet against vs MN in a playoff series.

Utah was shrewd in that they built their roster around Rudy to maximize his skill and then sold high. Rudy is a unique player who requires the line up be built around him in a specific way. Minnesota and he are a horrible fit. Our $8M roster expert and his team somehow failed to see this.

Flexibility is big because it gives you the opportunity to make a big move. People are critical of the big move we made because they feel we can no longer make a big move. Well no duh, because we just made our big move.

Has it worked perfectly? No.
Has it completely failed? No. We are playing as poorly as we arguably could, yet we've been hovering around .500 without our all-NBA player for half of the season. People conveniently like to leave that out.

[Baseline81]

Flexibility is big because it gives you the opportunity to make a big move. People are critical of the big move we made because they feel we can no longer make a big move. Well no duh, because we just made our big move.

Has it worked perfectly? No.
Has it completely failed? No. We are playing as poorly as we arguably could, yet we've been hovering around .500 without our all-NBA player for half of the season. People conveniently like to leave that out.

Remind me again, what was Minnesota's record when both Towns and Gobert played earlier in the season?

EDIT: People are critical because the big move made was the wrong big move to make. Don't try to say everyone on this forum was on board with Connelly's trade for Gobert, and only now, in hindsight, are upset with it.

[bluethunder0005]

Flexibility is big because it gives you the opportunity to make a big move. People are critical of the big move we made because they feel we can no longer make a big move. Well no duh, because we just made our big move.

Has it worked perfectly? No.
Has it completely failed? No. We are playing as poorly as we arguably could, yet we've been hovering around .500 without our all-NBA player for half of the season. People conveniently like to leave that out.

Remind me again, what was Minnesota's record when both Towns and Gobert played earlier in the season?

EDIT: People are critical because the big move made was the wrong big move to make. Don't try to say everyone on this forum was on board with Connelly's trade for Gobert, and only now, in hindsight, are upset with it.

Their record early in the season is 0 indication it didn't/couldn't/won't work. They played 20 games together and were 10-10 in those games. The 2010 Miami Heat with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh started off 9-8. If those 3 hall of famers can have a slow start to their team chemistry then I'm pretty sure this team could as well.

I've been incredibly frustrated by these recent games and I have a lot of doubts about if this team even makes the playins but we've been missing our All-NBA center for over 50% of the season. If you took away every teams best player they'd all be in similar spots. Look what happened with Zion being out for the Pelicans did to them, what happened when the Suns lost Booker, what Curry being out does to the Warriors, etc.

[Krapinsky]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

If I'm starting a role with a new organization, I would probably take some time to evaluate the team and its chemistry before blowing it up and using all my tradeable assets in one all in move. Particularly, when that 'all-in' move involves taking on a 30 year old center on a max contract when our best player plays the same position. Many of us talked ourselves into it as we always do, but it was a colossally dumb decision at the time and looks even worse now.

I would have built around Ant/Jaden/Vando/Towns and held onto my chips until the right move came along.

[Rookie-Mistake]

Been saying it all year.. something stinks about this organisation right now...

Sent from my SM-G991B using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

I would have built around Ant/Jaden/Vando/Towns and held onto my chips until the right move came along.

So the only player you're upset about is losing Vanderbilt...

Look, I get it. He was a fan favorite. So was Beverley.

But so was Ricky. So was Corey. So was Pek. They are endearing to the fan base, but they shouldn't be guys a GM builds around.

[Krapinsky]

I would have built around Ant/Jaden/Vando/Towns and held onto my chips until the right move came along.

So the only player you're upset about is losing Vanderbilt...

Look, I get it. He was a fan favorite. So was Beverley.

But so was Ricky. So was Corey. So was Pek. They are endearing to the fan base, but they shouldn't be guys a GM builds around.

I’m upset we traded all of our picks to make us worse off and now we have no roster flexibility…

Vanderbilt was a key piece because of how well he pairs with Kat and makes up for his shortcomings. There are few players in the league that fit that mold. Rudy doesn’t do that at 8 x the cost. Rudy requires Kat to play out of position and limits his impact.

[Wolveswin]

I’m curious for the segment that blames Tim Connelly, I ask you to say what you would do?

Let me take you back. We had just finished a surprising regular season. We had had tremendous luck with our own health, and often faced teams missing their best player. We had a gimmick high wall defense that could you get you by in a regular season game, but could be easily schemed against in the playoffs. In the playoffs, MEM killed us because of our inability to effectively get defensive rebounds to protect the rim.

So do you bring it back? Does that team even reach the playoffs, particularly without KAT this year?

Or if you choose to make a different trade, who do you think you could add? Who adds team-fitting talent AND wants to be in MIN?

You're calling our defense a gimmick. Doesn't mean it was. It didn't get schemed out in Memphis we just couldn't get a rebound to save our lives and Brandon Clarke ate our whole team for lunch.

I honestly would run it back with Anderson and a taller guard. I think we'd be fine.

If we were going to make a big splashy trade I would have done this for a two way wing or guard at high impact/ star/ superstar level.

I would have kept Bev and Vanderbilt.

Sent DLo, Beasley, McLaughlin, Bolmaro packing.

KA and TP were great signings.

Roll out with

X/Bev
Edwards/x
McDaniels/TP
Anderson/JV
KAT/Reid

Trade targets (primary) (ranked)
1. Shai
2. Haliburton
3. Smart
4. Caruso
5. Lillard
6. D.Murray

Trade Targets (Secondary)(ranked)
1. Dillon Brooks (not feasible)
2. Lu Dort
3. Josh Hart
4. Terrence Mann
5. Herb Jones


FAs (instead of Rivers and Forbes)
Bruce Brown
Donte DiVicenzo
Victor Oladipo
Yuta Watanabe
Joe Ingles
Hamidou Diallo

I would have swung for the fences with Shai and Dort. Would have gone way harder for DiVicenzo and more player.

Shai/DiVicenzo/Bev
Edwards/Dort
McDaniels/TP/(Watanabe or Ingles or Diallo)
Anderson/JV
KAT/Reid /Garza

If we had thrown all our picks in the trash for that roster? I would have gladly taken whatever result because our roster wouldn't have been on a ticking clock. Our guards are young and extremely talented and good on defense and locked in for long contracts. Our wings and forwards are a good mix and versatile and have a solid vet presence.

Way better than throwing all of our assets for an aging Gobert and Conley who weren't even the best players on their team. So yeah had I had Kahnelleys job I would have done something like that.

Come on, who wouldn’t have wanted Shai? Not realistic. Edwards+ would have been needed. Presti isn’t trading him for picks package. Lol

Murray is only one built in reality because he was traded after Gobert. And he would have made a much better fit.

Russell for Murray + McDermott (or JRich) was the trade. From what Hawks gave, could have been 23/25 unprotected with 27 lotto protected. And maybe keeping that protected 27 with Kessler involved (who without hindsight was just #22 pick ready to be buried on Wolves bench). We aren’t sure how expiring Russell would have been valued by SA either.

Towns | Reid
JV or Anderson | Prince
McDaniels | McDermott (or JRich)
Edwards | Beasley
Murray | Beverley

That keeps successful 2021/22 team intact but with a Murray upgrade. Team is deep and team isn’t void of assists.

Which BTW, anyone find it say “deflating” Lakers starting 3/5 of Wolves 21/22 lineup. Russell, JV, and Beasley will be starting with James and AD as they chase down Wolves in standings.

[bluethunder0005]

I would have built around Ant/Jaden/Vando/Towns and held onto my chips until the right move came along.

So the only player you're upset about is losing Vanderbilt...

Look, I get it. He was a fan favorite. So was Beverley.

But so was Ricky. So was Corey. So was Pek. They are endearing to the fan base, but they shouldn't be guys a GM builds around.

I’m upset we traded all of our picks to make us worse off and now we have no roster flexibility…

Vanderbilt was a key piece because of how well he pairs with Kat and makes up for his shortcomings. There are few players in the league that fit that mold. Rudy doesn’t do that at 8 x the cost. Rudy requires Kat to play out of position and limits his impact.

We'd need something more than Vanderbilt though and he's never going to be even a respectable offensive threat. You can't have 1 pure defensive player and 1 pure offensive player at the 4 & 5 and think that will get the job done. There is a reason Vanderbilt is a 22 minute a night guy and he does great for those minutes but he's basically playing 4 v 5 on offense and you can't get away with that in the NBA, especially from someone who isn't a rim protector.

You'd need someone like an Antony Davis playing at the 4 to pair up with KAT and they're just aren't many of those guys around. We can hate advanced analytics all we want but Gobert has been a top 15 (easily) player in the NBA by almost all good metrics and they don't lie. The eye test lies, the metrics don't, not when all of the good ones say the same thing.

[Guest84]

I feel like team chemistry is highly undervalued, especially when it comes to this organization. First, When Connelly came in, it seems like he saw players he already traded away (Vando, Beas) and just couldn't stomach the thought of them being on his new team. Almost like there may have been an underlying issue between them. For a new POBO to come in and immediately make that move without first truly evaluating the team is wild to me. You would think he'd like to see if the prior year was a fluke or not.

While Vando isn't your ideal starting 4, his play style is one you absolutely need on your team. An energy guy willing to do the dirty work, can guard 4-5 positions at times, and doesn't really take away from your stars need for the ball. He's not untouchable for the right move but the one he was included in is tough to swallow. Although, it's been hard to truly evaluate due to all of the injuries.

The wolves are experts at killing momentum as seen over the years. So a lot of fans have PTSD when it comes to moves because they simply don't trust them. While fans aren't opposed to making moves big/small, it's the type of moves made that make no sense.

In the case of this one, it seems like the team has been placed in a box with the only way to get out would be traded Kat or Rudy. But only time will tell.

[Krapinsky]

So the only player you're upset about is losing Vanderbilt...

Look, I get it. He was a fan favorite. So was Beverley.

But so was Ricky. So was Corey. So was Pek. They are endearing to the fan base, but they shouldn't be guys a GM builds around.

I’m upset we traded all of our picks to make us worse off and now we have no roster flexibility…

Vanderbilt was a key piece because of how well he pairs with Kat and makes up for his shortcomings. There are few players in the league that fit that mold. Rudy doesn’t do that at 8 x the cost. Rudy requires Kat to play out of position and limits his impact.

We'd need something more than Vanderbilt though and he's never going to be even a respectable offensive threat. You can't have 1 pure defensive player and 1 pure offensive player at the 4 & 5 and think that will get the job done. There is a reason Vanderbilt is a 22 minute a night guy and he does great for those minutes but he's basically playing 4 v 5 on offense and you can't get away with that in the NBA, especially from someone who isn't a rim protector.

You'd need someone like an Antony Davis playing at the 4 to pair up with KAT and they're just aren't many of those guys around. We can hate advanced analytics all we want but Gobert has been a top 15 (easily) player in the NBA by almost all good metrics and they don't lie. The eye test lies, the metrics don't, not when all of the good ones say the same thing.

What do your metrics say about Gobert this year? How does Vanderbilt compare? Nevermind the fact that at age 23 Vanderbilt is clearly trending one way and Gobert trending the other way. And Vanderbilt already has more offensive skill than Rudy does. His jump shot has made big strides this year.

[bluethunder0005]

I’m upset we traded all of our picks to make us worse off and now we have no roster flexibility…

Vanderbilt was a key piece because of how well he pairs with Kat and makes up for his shortcomings. There are few players in the league that fit that mold. Rudy doesn’t do that at 8 x the cost. Rudy requires Kat to play out of position and limits his impact.

We'd need something more than Vanderbilt though and he's never going to be even a respectable offensive threat. You can't have 1 pure defensive player and 1 pure offensive player at the 4 & 5 and think that will get the job done. There is a reason Vanderbilt is a 22 minute a night guy and he does great for those minutes but he's basically playing 4 v 5 on offense and you can't get away with that in the NBA, especially from someone who isn't a rim protector.

You'd need someone like an Antony Davis playing at the 4 to pair up with KAT and they're just aren't many of those guys around. We can hate advanced analytics all we want but Gobert has been a top 15 (easily) player in the NBA by almost all good metrics and they don't lie. The eye test lies, the metrics don't, not when all of the good ones say the same thing.

What do your metrics say about Gobert this year? How does Vanderbilt compare? Nevermind the fact that at age 23 Vanderbilt is clearly trending one way and Gobert trending the other way. And Vanderbilt already has more offensive skill than Rudy does. His jump shot has made big strides this year.

Vanderbilt has next to no offensive skill besides shooting a corner 3 (only on the right side) if he's wide open and serving as a cutter. The Jazz were 5 points better with Vanderbilt off the court than on it and he was sharing the court with the starters. He shoots 21% on shots in the paint that aren't in the restricted area (league average is 46%). Vanderbilt will never average 15 points a game in his career, he just doesn't have that capability and as much as we fans might like to wish otherwise, 99% of the league don't just develop skills later in their career that they don't possess when coming into the league.

The best metrics still have Gobert being a good (not amazing) player where as they have Vanderbilt as being a negative to the team.