Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[UnbelievablyRAW]

That's what the offseason is for. He's too good to be in the G-League and was far better off in the NBA. He won the ROTY last year.

He is a guy that averaged 10ppg in college. You need to move him along slowly. The team has managed him well so far. Start simple and then slowly expand his game.

Also, I don't think the team is as concerned with making him a lead guy. If he's the lead guy it will come naturally, it won't be because we forced him to become one. The cream always rises to the top.

This is all in hindsight lol. This whole comment chain started with I wish he got that opportunity because its too late to do that now. I'm in the camp that game experience is better than off season training alone. Someone like Lauri looked to have comeback from International play a new player having to carry that team.

I look at the offseason as a time to fix ball handling and shooting efficiency and to work on the body, but being able to get stuff off in live play will always be different than practice drills with a coach.

Scottie himself seems to aspire to be "the guy" from some of his goals hes commented on, its just about finding a pathway to get him there. Its also not uncommon for guys to never get a chance to show their expanded games because of team role going back to Lauri. If Scottie is still the number 3-4 guy on offense next year, I doubt he gets to showcase much of his improvements unless Nick forces it.

Even if you train something in the offseason, if you rarely do it in games you're not going to be confident in what youre trying to do when you do pull it out. Its the reason all these centres (and Ben Simmons) that post their off season drills and shots don't impress me. If when real games happen and you're scared or never put yourself in opportunities to use those skills, it won't mean anything

Scottie had that opportunity last season against high-level competition though. He was 3rd in PPG, 3rd in total points and 3rd in FGA among rookies while he also finished with the 2nd most isolation attempts. The numbers among his draft class are similar this season too (5th in PPG, 4th in total points and 4th in FGA while he's 2nd in ISO attempts) and he has had a bit of an increase in his role overall (+0.7 FGA per36, +1.2 USG%, +2.5 front court touches, +0.8 time of possession, etc.). If you dig into his playtype allocation, he's getting more opportunities as "the guy" this season as well as he has a higher frequency of isolation, post-up and PnR ball handler possession. The issue is he has been less efficient in those playtypes (-0.05 PPP in isolation, -0.06 PPP in post-ups and -0.39 PPP in PnR ball handler) as well as his bread and butter last season (-0.13 PPP in transition and -0.28 PPP in putbacks) while his pull-up shooting is also down (-0.12 PPP) which has torpedoed his efficiency. These are all things that Scottie needs to get better at for him to get to the next level, but they are things he needs to work on against NBA-level players. Working on his craft in the G-League would be meaningless at this point because he wouldn't be improving by beating up on bad players/teams.

Comparing Scottie to a player like Markkanen doesn't make sense because their style of play is so wildly different. Scottie has twice as many ISO possessions (1.9 vs 1.1) and PnR ball handler possessions (1.6 vs 0.8) as Markkanen while Markkanen has twice as many spot-up + off-screen possessions (7.3 vs 3.5) and 0 dribble FGA (10.4 vs 5.4). Markkanen has always been a good jump shooter on high-volume which gives him a leg up when it comes to scoring on increased usage. To put it into perspective, he has played ~150 less minutes than Scottie this season yet he has almost made as many threes (170) as Scottie has attempted (183).

Markonnen wasn't brought up to compare their playstyle, only to lend to the point that a getting reps being the main guy is beneficial to development if thats the goal. I'm pretty sure if he still was buried on the Chicago lineup or behind Garland and Mobley he wouldn't be the same guy he is in Utah even if they gifted him 5 more shots a game.

Scottie has an uptick in isos but his role is inconsistent, partly due to lineup changes because of injury. One day he is a centre screening and moving the ball, the next he's the "point guard" and asked to play completely differently. Having role definition and consistent opportunity to develop within it is important for overall development.

Also again, my first comment was in hindsight about last year. Idk where I said I want him in the g-league right now, this was about the beginning of his rookie year and getting an opportunity to try to play point guard full time for a while to get comfortable with it. He put up great numbers last year but he never played one consistent role and was used everywhere. I even said I hope for the rest of the year Nurse allows Scottie to play more with the bench as the sole starter so he can get reps leading an offense as the main scorer and distributor and work through his inefficiencies

[Wise80]

Scottie is not shooting it because he feels bad and that he thinks it makes him a ball hog.

Let's be honest. He's not shooting it because he can't do anything with the ball at this point in his game.

Stop kidding yourself and thinking that he feels like he has to pass it out. He literally can't get shots off. That's why he's not shooting it. Mixed in with him not having confidence in his ability to score.

I think he'll eventually get there. But it's a long ways away. Year 4 Scottie is when I expect him to be able to have a few go to moves that he will be working on. Results won't be perfect, but that's when I expect to see some results.

I agree with the confidence bit, but as for him not being able to get his shot off I wholeheartedly disagree. He's shown time and time again that he can get his shot off against anyone. What's holding him back is his confidence and belief that him taking the shots that are available to him are the best option for the team.

I think what's holding him back is that a long defender who is good at looking at film can take away Scottie's #1 and #2 scoring moves reasonably easily. Sometimes Scottie can make an impressive shot through that, because of how good he is. However, he just doesn't have enough moves, his footwork is so immature, and he has almost no counters once someone jams him up. No head fakes, no fadeaways.

Yep. He really doesn't have anything in his bag. I'm not worried about it. It'll come. I just think people are fooling themselves by saying it's because he doesn't want to seem like a ball hog or it's for the team.

This is the same guy who can't get by 5s and who settles for long 2s and 3s because he can't get by anyone. It's not too long ago when we had a stretch where the opposing team wasn't even guarding him. It came back last night a few times when Mitchell basically dared him to shoot and played off of him. You can bet that defense will show up in the playoffs as well. If that was happening to another young guy, we wouldn't be saying the same thing.

He's getting by with his touch, iq, and feel for the game. Which is great, because once he adds some stuff, he'll be dominant.

[Tha Cynic]

I'm not proficient at uploading images, its a little too downsized. Top is last season, bottom this season (shot charts from statmuse).

Scottie last season seemed decent at right elbow mid range, seen him practice this a lot. Haven't seen it much this year. I think the spacing with Siakam/Anunoby is cluttered as all 3 like this spot(s) on the floor. Ideally you get a scoring C on the left block and it opens things up more. One of the issues I have with Siakam is that he takes up a lot of floor space for his offense. Everyone else is either cutter/dunker or 3 pt shooter. Mix in Poeltl now and paint is congested as he's at the top or in dunker spot. Add in most of these guys like to go right and you got a traffic jam. I'd guess Scottie's lower efficiency at rim is likely due to defense collapsed in the paint quite often, not respecting Raps 3 pt shooting.

Aren't the Raptors a team that encourages in the paint or 3 pointers? I think Scottie's game needs to evolve more in the mid range and screw this tendency in recent years to ignore mid range in regular season games by NBA teams.

[C-R-E-A-M-]

Scottie has it factor

[NotMyKawhi]

scottie is mr 4th quarter

[DemHeavyHands]

Watch on YouTube

Great lil clip from Scottie’s offseason trainer talking about his game

He mentions a lot of the stuff we “complain” about when it comes to Scottie

Not having counters in the paint/mid
Not having that shoot first mentality
Not settling for what the defense gives you


But obviously he has shown a lot of flashes of becoming a great scorer. This is why we gotta be patient with him. A lot of you **** tards were giving up on him in the game thread, calling him a bust

It’s good he has someone in his corner who will tell him what it is. This offseason gonna be huge for him. Season 3 has to be the year for him, let’s just hope Masai makes the right decisions this time and nurse starts creating an offense to maximize Scottie’s skillset

[Thaddy]

The regression from year 1 to year 2 affects his value and potential. Three point shot is still broke, doesn't have an in between/mid-range game, suspect handle, poor lateral quicks, and an average floor general at best.

If you gave me the option to trade Barnes for Mathurin last year you would have been crazy to take it. I'm not sure now though, I can easily see Mathurin being a 25+ scorer with great defense, I can't see Barnes getting more than 20 points a game in his prime.

[Brinbe]

Scottie's defense was incredible in the 4th. I know it's not the easiest ask, but he needs to bring that effort more consistently. That constant motor and hustle is what made him so intoxicating to watch during his rookie year and it really is his calling card.

And consistency, from game-to-game and quarter-to-quarter is what separates the great from the merely good players. So I hope he's able to find some measure of it.

I don't expect scottie to suddenly become a great iso scorer or shooter overnight but if he can tap into and bear down on the things he already does well, that's already a winning basketball player. And it all starts on defense. There's no reason why he can't have that defensive impact more often.

Though for now, at least he's picking the 4th of all times to pick things up.

[will]

Scottish produces when it counts.

[HumbleRen]

Watch on YouTube

Great lil clip from Scottie’s offseason trainer talking about his game

He mentions a lot of the stuff we “complain” about when it comes to Scottie

Not having counters in the paint/mid
Not having that shoot first mentality
Not settling for what the defense gives you


But obviously he has shown a lot of flashes of becoming a great scorer. This is why we gotta be patient with him. A lot of you **** tards were giving up on him in the game thread, calling him a bust

It’s good he has someone in his corner who will tell him what it is. This offseason gonna be huge for him. Season 3 has to be the year for him, let’s just hope Masai makes the right decisions this time and nurse starts creating an offense to maximize Scottie’s skillset

I respect this man for being there for Scottie but I hope he branches out and hires the higher tier trainers in the off season.

[God Squad]

I didn't watch the game. But Scottie shot the ball poorly with a 4-12 shooting night(2-3 from 3pt), but still got a game leading +19 on the +/- . So for those that watched, was it
- Defense
- Fill up the stat sheet
- 4 off and 4 def rebounds
- Stocks (Steals/Blocks)

By contrast FVV also shot poorly, but also filled up the stat sheet. But he's -4 in a win, which is weird.

[DemHeavyHands]

Watch on YouTube

Great lil clip from Scottie’s offseason trainer talking about his game

He mentions a lot of the stuff we “complain” about when it comes to Scottie

Not having counters in the paint/mid
Not having that shoot first mentality
Not settling for what the defense gives you


But obviously he has shown a lot of flashes of becoming a great scorer. This is why we gotta be patient with him. A lot of you **** tards were giving up on him in the game thread, calling him a bust

It’s good he has someone in his corner who will tell him what it is. This offseason gonna be huge for him. Season 3 has to be the year for him, let’s just hope Masai makes the right decisions this time and nurse starts creating an offense to maximize Scottie’s skillset

I respect this man for being there for Scottie but I hope he branches out and hires the higher tier trainers in the off season.

What’s higher tier to you??

His trainer is apart of the handlelife team. From what I’ve seen he’s partners with dribble2much, the same guy that was training demar in all those off season vids we watched every summer and works with a lot of nba players

Is there a next tier? Handlelife is pretty big lol

[DemHeavyHands]

I didn't watch the game. But Scottie shot the ball poorly with a 4-12 shooting night(2-3 from 3pt), but still got a game leading +19 on the +/- . So for those that watched, was it
- Defense
- Fill up the stat sheet
- 4 off and 4 def rebounds
- Stocks (Steals/Blocks)

By contrast FVV also shot poorly, but also filled up the stat sheet. But he's -4 in a win, which is weird.

He was a complete non factor in 3 quarters, it was pretty maddening. Missed a lot of easy layups in the 3rd, to the point Jack was calling him out for his play lol

4th quarter he literally did everything. All his 4 blocks came in the 4th as well. Just another typical, turn it up in the 4th scottie performance

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

[blastttOFF]

Read on Twitter

that last block was clean af. shouldve counted it to teach Beverley petty ass for trying to get a cheap bucket

[vulture]

I don't think you can ask the offense to be run through you like Jokic when you're at 52.5 TS%.
That's the definition of being entitled.

[pingpongrac]

I didn't watch the game. But Scottie shot the ball poorly with a 4-12 shooting night(2-3 from 3pt), but still got a game leading +19 on the +/- . So for those that watched, was it
- Defense
- Fill up the stat sheet
- 4 off and 4 def rebounds
- Stocks (Steals/Blocks)

By contrast FVV also shot poorly, but also filled up the stat sheet. But he's -4 in a win, which is weird.

Scottie was non-existent in the first 3 quarters (3/3/3 on 1/8 shooting), but he was +11 almost entirely because he played most of his minutes with the starting 5 lineup that was +10 in 16 minutes. However, he then dominated the defensive end in Q4 while hitting some clutch shots as well. He basically doubled his box score numbers in Q4 (8/5/1 on 3/4 shooting with 4 blocks) and his play in those 12 minutes was the biggest reason why we won.

FVV missed everything aside from one pull-up three off a screen, but he was taking shots within the flow of the offence and he was impactful overall. He was moving the ball quickly most of the night then finding Poeltl for easy buckets in the PnR and GTJ wide open for a bunch of threes while his defence was decent even though Nurse was being a dork and sticking FVV on LaVine while Siakam and GTJ were hiding on Caruso and Beverley most of the game. His +/- numbers were heavily impacted by the fact that he played a big chunk of minutes with the bench in Q1 and Q3; the Bulls went on a 14-8 run to close Q1 as Boucher had a few turnovers then the Bulls went on an 8-2 run to close Q3 as Williams/LaVine scored on 3 straight possessions due to bad defence from Boucher and Achiuwa while FVV himself missed 2 open threes.

A game like last night is a good example of how +/- can be so wonky. All it took was a few turnovers and bad defensive plays by the bench to swing FVV's +/- by ~10 points while Scottie benefited from playing alongside Siakam/OG/Poeltl, who were carrying our offence through the first 3 quarters (41 points on 16/32 shooting while the rest of the team had 29 points on 11/39 shooting), for the majority of his minutes. Then in the 4th quarter, Scottie did almost everything yet barely had as much of an impact in +/- as he did in Q1 when he had 3/1/1 on 1/4 shooting with a turnover lol.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Matt and Jack were both talking about his work ethic and how it has to be at DeMar and Siakam's level last night. It's out there enough. You're not going to hear broadcast teams talk about stuff like that unless there's a kernel of truth there. Trainers know what to work on. It's all the same stuff, and every time I've heard his trainer he's said all the things I think needs to be his area of focus. I think the question would be more is he the right guy to drive him to put in the hours, and that's not really anything we would know about at this point.

It's a good sign that he's gone from wanting to be like Draymond pre-draft to wanting to run offense like Jokic, but he didn't come into the league with Jokic's skill and he now has to live in the gym to make up a lot of skill. My feeling is that Scottie puts work in, but maybe wasn't uncompromising about it like DeMar, Siakam, Kawhi, Giannis, Westbrook, etc., and that's where the questions from the media come from and possibly some of the resentment from a few of the current Raptors.

[anotherhomer]

I didn't watch the game. But Scottie shot the ball poorly with a 4-12 shooting night(2-3 from 3pt), but still got a game leading +19 on the +/- . So for those that watched, was it
- Defense
- Fill up the stat sheet
- 4 off and 4 def rebounds
- Stocks (Steals/Blocks)

By contrast FVV also shot poorly, but also filled up the stat sheet. But he's -4 in a win, which is weird.

He was a complete non factor in 3 quarters, it was pretty maddening. Missed a lot of easy layups in the 3rd, to the point Jack was calling him out for his play lol

4th quarter he literally did everything. All his 4 blocks came in the 4th as well. Just another typical, turn it up in the 4th scottie performance

Ya, the first three quarters, you ready to trade him then the last quarter, ready to anoint him as a cornerstone

His versatility is amazing though

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think you can ask the offense to be run through you like Jokic when you're at 52.5 TS%.
That's the definition of being entitled.

Watching the clip there wasn't much context to the question. It sounded to me like his trainer was talking about what Scottie aspires to be. Otherwise maybe he's reading some of the yo-yos on this board who insist he can run the offense like Sabonis and Jokic, which would be a really bad sign for all of us.