Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[Mikistan]

I don't think you can ask the offense to be run through you like Jokic when you're at 52.5 TS%.
That's the definition of being entitled.

Watching the clip there wasn't much context to the question. It sounded to me like his trainer was talking about what Scottie aspires to be. Otherwise maybe he's reading some of the yo-yos on this board who insist he can run the offense like Sabonis and Jokic, which would be a really bad sign for all of us.

Y'all are out to lunch

[HumbleRen]

Watch on YouTube

Great lil clip from Scottie’s offseason trainer talking about his game

He mentions a lot of the stuff we “complain” about when it comes to Scottie

Not having counters in the paint/mid
Not having that shoot first mentality
Not settling for what the defense gives you


But obviously he has shown a lot of flashes of becoming a great scorer. This is why we gotta be patient with him. A lot of you **** tards were giving up on him in the game thread, calling him a bust

It’s good he has someone in his corner who will tell him what it is. This offseason gonna be huge for him. Season 3 has to be the year for him, let’s just hope Masai makes the right decisions this time and nurse starts creating an offense to maximize Scottie’s skillset

I respect this man for being there for Scottie but I hope he branches out and hires the higher tier trainers in the off season.

What’s higher tier to you??

His trainer is apart of the handlelife team. From what I’ve seen he’s partners with dribble2much, the same guy that was training demar in all those off season vids we watched every summer and works with a lot of nba players

Is there a next tier? Handlelife is pretty big lol

Get that man with Tim Grover lol.

[OakleyDokely]

Scottie held Lavine/Demar to a combined 3/10 when he defended them.

[Dalek]

Scottie's defense was incredible in the 4th. I know it's not the easiest ask, but he needs to bring that effort more consistently. That constant motor and hustle is what made him so intoxicating to watch during his rookie year and it really is his calling card.

And consistency, from game-to-game and quarter-to-quarter is what separates the great from the merely good players. So I hope he's able to find some measure of it.

I don't expect scottie to suddenly become a great iso scorer or shooter overnight but if he can tap into and bear down on the things he already does well, that's already a winning basketball player. And it all starts on defense. There's no reason why he can't have that defensive impact more often.

Though for now, at least he's picking the 4th of all times to pick things up.

This is exactly what I expect out of the pick - a DPOY type of player like Mobley but maybe even more versatile.

I know people who draft 4th overall wanted a Kawhi Leonard takeover type player, but having a more athletic Draymond Green is what Scottie can be right now. His defense absolutely changed the whole game to the point where Toronto didn't even bring Poeltl back in and single guarded Vuc with Barnes a lot of the time. Barnes blowing up a team's offense is the kind of chaos making that we should expect out of him.

Even if Scottie tops out as a great defender you still have a game changer for your team. And, who cares if OG does a similar role? Having both of them out there against two dynamic scorers allows the team to spread out the minutes more. No Fred and Pascal for playing for 40 mins.

[ItsDanger]

Too many conflicting offensive traits on this roster. Going to limit Scottie's progression. That's on management.

[OakleyDokely]

Read on Twitter

[Brinbe]

Scottie's defense was incredible in the 4th. I know it's not the easiest ask, but he needs to bring that effort more consistently. That constant motor and hustle is what made him so intoxicating to watch during his rookie year and it really is his calling card.

And consistency, from game-to-game and quarter-to-quarter is what separates the great from the merely good players. So I hope he's able to find some measure of it.

I don't expect scottie to suddenly become a great iso scorer or shooter overnight but if he can tap into and bear down on the things he already does well, that's already a winning basketball player. And it all starts on defense. There's no reason why he can't have that defensive impact more often.

Though for now, at least he's picking the 4th of all times to pick things up.

This is exactly what I expect out of the pick - a DPOY type of player like Mobley but maybe even more versatile.

I know people who draft 4th overall wanted a Kawhi Leonard takeover type player, but having a more athletic Draymond Green is what Scottie can be right now. His defense absolutely changed the whole game to the point where Toronto didn't even bring Poeltl back in and single guarded Vuc with Barnes a lot of the time. Barnes blowing up a team's offense is the kind of chaos making that we should expect out of him.

Even if Scottie tops out as a great defender you still have a game changer for your team. And, who cares if OG does a similar role? Having both of them out there against two dynamic scorers allows the team to spread out the minutes more. No Fred and Pascal for playing for 40 mins.

Absolutely right! And that defensive potential/versatility was always a part of his high valuation coming into the draft.

And we've lost sight of that because we all have this vision of what we want scottie to be on offfense when a large part of that value was always on the defensive end.

As if being a Draymond is some slight.

But that's on Scottie too as he's struggled with making that consistent game-to game and quarter-to-quarter defensive impact this season. And that's something well within his own control. The motor and energy has gotta be there right from the opening whistle.

[Vampirate]

Scottie's defense was incredible in the 4th. I know it's not the easiest ask, but he needs to bring that effort more consistently. That constant motor and hustle is what made him so intoxicating to watch during his rookie year and it really is his calling card.

And consistency, from game-to-game and quarter-to-quarter is what separates the great from the merely good players. So I hope he's able to find some measure of it.

I don't expect scottie to suddenly become a great iso scorer or shooter overnight but if he can tap into and bear down on the things he already does well, that's already a winning basketball player. And it all starts on defense. There's no reason why he can't have that defensive impact more often.

Though for now, at least he's picking the 4th of all times to pick things up.

This is exactly what I expect out of the pick - a DPOY type of player like Mobley but maybe even more versatile.

I know people who draft 4th overall wanted a Kawhi Leonard takeover type player, but having a more athletic Draymond Green is what Scottie can be right now. His defense absolutely changed the whole game to the point where Toronto didn't even bring Poeltl back in and single guarded Vuc with Barnes a lot of the time. Barnes blowing up a team's offense is the kind of chaos making that we should expect out of him.

Even if Scottie tops out as a great defender you still have a game changer for your team. And, who cares if OG does a similar role? Having both of them out there against two dynamic scorers allows the team to spread out the minutes more. No Fred and Pascal for playing for 40 mins.

Absolutely right! And that defensive potential/versatility was always a part of his high valuation coming into the draft.

And we've lost sight of that because we all have this vision of what we want scottie to be on offfense when a large part of that value was always on the defensive end.

As if being a Draymond is some slight.

But that's on Scottie too as he's struggled with making that consistent game-to game and quarter-to-quarter defensive impact this season. And that's something well within his own control. The motor and energy has gotta be there right from the opening whistle.

My issue we just don't have the team to have the patience with Barnes for too long.

The Cavs can be patient with Mobley since a lot of their players are in their prime and they are in contention or close.

If Barnes ceiling is actually a more athletic Draymond we are basically stuck in purgatory as we just don't have a way to get a player better than him if that's the case.

Barnes basically has to prove he's worthy of being built around in season 3 or we're going to be a .500 team for a while.

This front office moves of not blowing it up is making me sweat. We shall see in the off season.

[Brinbe]

This is exactly what I expect out of the pick - a DPOY type of player like Mobley but maybe even more versatile.

I know people who draft 4th overall wanted a Kawhi Leonard takeover type player, but having a more athletic Draymond Green is what Scottie can be right now. His defense absolutely changed the whole game to the point where Toronto didn't even bring Poeltl back in and single guarded Vuc with Barnes a lot of the time. Barnes blowing up a team's offense is the kind of chaos making that we should expect out of him.

Even if Scottie tops out as a great defender you still have a game changer for your team. And, who cares if OG does a similar role? Having both of them out there against two dynamic scorers allows the team to spread out the minutes more. No Fred and Pascal for playing for 40 mins.

Absolutely right! And that defensive potential/versatility was always a part of his high valuation coming into the draft.

And we've lost sight of that because we all have this vision of what we want scottie to be on offfense when a large part of that value was always on the defensive end.

As if being a Draymond is some slight.

But that's on Scottie too as he's struggled with making that consistent game-to game and quarter-to-quarter defensive impact this season. And that's something well within his own control. The motor and energy has gotta be there right from the opening whistle.

My issue we just don't have the team to have the patience with Barnes for too long.

The Cavs can be patient with Mobley since a lot of their players are in their prime and they are in contention or close.

If Barnes ceiling is actually a more athletic Draymond we are basically stuck in purgatory as we just don't have a way to get a player better than him if that's the case.

Barnes basically has to prove he's worthy of being built around in season 3 or we're going to be a .500 team for a while.

This front office moves of not blowing it up is making me sweat. We shall see in the off season.

barnes is 21-years-old, there's no pressure on barnes at all. his window is years down the road and making demands of someone in their early 20s to be this or that is nonsense. in fact you're looking at ass-backwards.

every single thing you're talking about in your post in terms of purgotary or whatever should be reserved for pascal/fred. they're the leaders and highest-paid. start with them and work backwards.

[HumbleRen]

Coaching staff forcing him to be a point of attack defender instead of making him a roaming defender is such a miscalculation of his defensive ability.

[OakleyDokely]

Read on Twitter

[Tha Cynic]

I didn't watch the game. But Scottie shot the ball poorly with a 4-12 shooting night(2-3 from 3pt), but still got a game leading +19 on the +/- . So for those that watched, was it
- Defense
- Fill up the stat sheet
- 4 off and 4 def rebounds
- Stocks (Steals/Blocks)

By contrast FVV also shot poorly, but also filled up the stat sheet. But he's -4 in a win, which is weird.

Scottie was non-existent in the first 3 quarters (3/3/3 on 1/8 shooting), but he was +11 almost entirely because he played most of his minutes with the starting 5 lineup that was +10 in 16 minutes. However, he then dominated the defensive end in Q4 while hitting some clutch shots as well. He basically doubled his box score numbers in Q4 (8/5/1 on 3/4 shooting with 4 blocks) and his play in those 12 minutes was the biggest reason why we won.

FVV missed everything aside from one pull-up three off a screen, but he was taking shots within the flow of the offence and he was impactful overall. He was moving the ball quickly most of the night then finding Poeltl for easy buckets in the PnR and GTJ wide open for a bunch of threes while his defence was decent even though Nurse was being a dork and sticking FVV on LaVine while Siakam and GTJ were hiding on Caruso and Beverley most of the game. His +/- numbers were heavily impacted by the fact that he played a big chunk of minutes with the bench in Q1 and Q3; the Bulls went on a 14-8 run to close Q1 as Boucher had a few turnovers then the Bulls went on an 8-2 run to close Q3 as Williams/LaVine scored on 3 straight possessions due to bad defence from Boucher and Achiuwa while FVV himself missed 2 open threes.

A game like last night is a good example of how +/- can be so wonky. All it took was a few turnovers and bad defensive plays by the bench to swing FVV's +/- by ~10 points while Scottie benefited from playing alongside Siakam/OG/Poeltl, who were carrying our offence through the first 3 quarters (41 points on 16/32 shooting while the rest of the team had 29 points on 11/39 shooting), for the majority of his minutes. Then in the 4th quarter, Scottie did almost everything yet barely had as much of an impact in +/- as he did in Q1 when he had 3/1/1 on 1/4 shooting with a turnover lol.

It's kind of funny how you spent more time in your post writing positive and excusing FVV in a Barnes thread than you did focus on what Barnes did well, while glazing over why maybe the first 3 quarters weren't so great. You could easily find the same excuses for Barnes as to why his shooting percentages were low in the first 3 quarters. It's funny how when FVV takes shots and misses, he's taking good shots and missing, but when Barnes misses good shots under the basket it's a negative as if he's taking bad shots. Barnes is probably the best on the team at not taking bad shots. lol

Based on your post you would think FVV had the bigger impact on the win. Your post is very misleading for anyone who didn't actually watch the game.

At least some of you are consistent with your bias lol.

[pingpongrac]

I didn't watch the game. But Scottie shot the ball poorly with a 4-12 shooting night(2-3 from 3pt), but still got a game leading +19 on the +/- . So for those that watched, was it
- Defense
- Fill up the stat sheet
- 4 off and 4 def rebounds
- Stocks (Steals/Blocks)

By contrast FVV also shot poorly, but also filled up the stat sheet. But he's -4 in a win, which is weird.

Scottie was non-existent in the first 3 quarters (3/3/3 on 1/8 shooting), but he was +11 almost entirely because he played most of his minutes with the starting 5 lineup that was +10 in 16 minutes. However, he then dominated the defensive end in Q4 while hitting some clutch shots as well. He basically doubled his box score numbers in Q4 (8/5/1 on 3/4 shooting with 4 blocks) and his play in those 12 minutes was the biggest reason why we won.

FVV missed everything aside from one pull-up three off a screen, but he was taking shots within the flow of the offence and he was impactful overall. He was moving the ball quickly most of the night then finding Poeltl for easy buckets in the PnR and GTJ wide open for a bunch of threes while his defence was decent even though Nurse was being a dork and sticking FVV on LaVine while Siakam and GTJ were hiding on Caruso and Beverley most of the game. His +/- numbers were heavily impacted by the fact that he played a big chunk of minutes with the bench in Q1 and Q3; the Bulls went on a 14-8 run to close Q1 as Boucher had a few turnovers then the Bulls went on an 8-2 run to close Q3 as Williams/LaVine scored on 3 straight possessions due to bad defence from Boucher and Achiuwa while FVV himself missed 2 open threes.

A game like last night is a good example of how +/- can be so wonky. All it took was a few turnovers and bad defensive plays by the bench to swing FVV's +/- by ~10 points while Scottie benefited from playing alongside Siakam/OG/Poeltl, who were carrying our offence through the first 3 quarters (41 points on 16/32 shooting while the rest of the team had 29 points on 11/39 shooting), for the majority of his minutes. Then in the 4th quarter, Scottie did almost everything yet barely had as much of an impact in +/- as he did in Q1 when he had 3/1/1 on 1/4 shooting with a turnover lol.

It's kind of funny how you spent more time in your post writing positive and excusing FVV in a Barnes thread than you did focus on what Barnes did well, while glazing over why maybe the first 3 quarters weren't so great. You could easily find the same excuses for Barnes as to why his shooting percentages were low in the first 3 quarters. It's funny how when FVV takes shots and misses, he's taking good shots and missing, but when Barnes misses good shots under the basket it's a negative as if he's taking bad shots. Barnes is probably the best on the team at not taking bad shots. lol

Based on your post you would think FVV had the bigger impact on the win. Your post is very misleading for anyone who didn't actually watch the game.

At least some of you are consistent with your bias lol.

Dude, get off my nuts lol. I literally said Scottie was the biggest reason we won and his impact in the 4th quarter went well beyond what the box score stats said.

[Tha Cynic]

Scottie was non-existent in the first 3 quarters (3/3/3 on 1/8 shooting), but he was +11 almost entirely because he played most of his minutes with the starting 5 lineup that was +10 in 16 minutes. However, he then dominated the defensive end in Q4 while hitting some clutch shots as well. He basically doubled his box score numbers in Q4 (8/5/1 on 3/4 shooting with 4 blocks) and his play in those 12 minutes was the biggest reason why we won.

FVV missed everything aside from one pull-up three off a screen, but he was taking shots within the flow of the offence and he was impactful overall. He was moving the ball quickly most of the night then finding Poeltl for easy buckets in the PnR and GTJ wide open for a bunch of threes while his defence was decent even though Nurse was being a dork and sticking FVV on LaVine while Siakam and GTJ were hiding on Caruso and Beverley most of the game. His +/- numbers were heavily impacted by the fact that he played a big chunk of minutes with the bench in Q1 and Q3; the Bulls went on a 14-8 run to close Q1 as Boucher had a few turnovers then the Bulls went on an 8-2 run to close Q3 as Williams/LaVine scored on 3 straight possessions due to bad defence from Boucher and Achiuwa while FVV himself missed 2 open threes.

A game like last night is a good example of how +/- can be so wonky. All it took was a few turnovers and bad defensive plays by the bench to swing FVV's +/- by ~10 points while Scottie benefited from playing alongside Siakam/OG/Poeltl, who were carrying our offence through the first 3 quarters (41 points on 16/32 shooting while the rest of the team had 29 points on 11/39 shooting), for the majority of his minutes. Then in the 4th quarter, Scottie did almost everything yet barely had as much of an impact in +/- as he did in Q1 when he had 3/1/1 on 1/4 shooting with a turnover lol.

It's kind of funny how you spent more time in your post writing positive and excusing FVV in a Barnes thread than you did focus on what Barnes did well, while glazing over why maybe the first 3 quarters weren't so great. You could easily find the same excuses for Barnes as to why his shooting percentages were low in the first 3 quarters. It's funny how when FVV takes shots and misses, he's taking good shots and missing, but when Barnes misses good shots under the basket it's a negative as if he's taking bad shots. Barnes is probably the best on the team at not taking bad shots. lol

Based on your post you would think FVV had the bigger impact on the win. Your post is very misleading for anyone who didn't actually watch the game.

At least some of you are consistent with your bias lol.

Dude, get off my nuts lol. I literally said Scottie was the biggest reason we won and his impact in the 4th quarter went well beyond what the box score stats said.

Yeah that's what your post was about - 3 long paragraphs about how great Barnes was.

The highlighted parts say just that

Dude didn't even spend 20 seconds looking for one excuse for what Barnes did in those 3 apparently no impact quarters other than to find a way to demean a guy who had the highest positive on the entire team. Like I said before, this is why you have to be very careful when you read these stats posts that are heavily skewed with a poster going out to argue a preconceived notion.

[tripa]

People claim to be unbiased but go into every thread defending FVV and diminishing our 21-year-old franchise cornerstone.

Make it make sense.

[pingpongrac]

It's kind of funny how you spent more time in your post writing positive and excusing FVV in a Barnes thread than you did focus on what Barnes did well, while glazing over why maybe the first 3 quarters weren't so great. You could easily find the same excuses for Barnes as to why his shooting percentages were low in the first 3 quarters. It's funny how when FVV takes shots and misses, he's taking good shots and missing, but when Barnes misses good shots under the basket it's a negative as if he's taking bad shots. Barnes is probably the best on the team at not taking bad shots. lol

Based on your post you would think FVV had the bigger impact on the win. Your post is very misleading for anyone who didn't actually watch the game.

At least some of you are consistent with your bias lol.[/b]

Dude, get off my nuts lol. I literally said Scottie was the biggest reason we won and his impact in the 4th quarter went well beyond what the box score stats said.

Yeah that's what your post was about - 3 long paragraphs about how great Barnes was.

The highlighted parts say just that

Dude didn't even spend 20 seconds looking for one excuse for what Barnes did in those 3 apparently no impact quarters other than to find a way to demean a guy who had the highest positive on the entire team. Like I said before, this is why you have to be very careful when you read these stats posts that are heavily skewed with a poster going out to argue a preconceived nothing.

Scottie missed some wide open jumpers and layups through the first 3 quarters that he makes 99% of the time. His turnover was actually a really great read, but Poeltl was supposed to run 15 feet to meet the pass so it wasn't deflected then intercepted. Is that better? Or do you want me to be honest and say that Scottie was disengaged for the majority of the game and complained to the refs after missing a shot inside because he thought he was fouled on multiple occasions?

I don't know what you expect. Scottie was non-existent in the first three quarters and there isn't much to comment on with his play in those first 23 minutes he played aside from it being very bad. He had 3/3/3 on 1/8 shooting with a turnover after 3 quarters while FVV had 2 rebounds and 5 assists more in 5 more minutes on identical efficiency (3 points on 10 possessions vs 3 points on 10 possessions). At that point, FVV was clearly having a better night though still just decent at best. It was the 4th quarter where Scottie took over on both ends while FVV was just another guy on the floor that didn't do anything.

[HiJiNX]

I think some of y’all are too committed to whatever your initial ideas of what you thought Scottie isn’t to see what he actually is. Yeah he’s frustrating when he misses easy shots or is disengaged but I mean, if you can’t see the potential that’s there, I don’t know what to say.

Scottie, if all goes well in his development, and there’s no indication why it won’t, will be one of the most unique players of his era and potentially of all time. We have seen him takeover games in a variety of different ways against all sorts of competition, in home games, on road games, in first halves, in second halves, with passing, with jumpers, driving to the rim, post ups, steals, blocks, you name it. If he puts it all together he’s going to be scary good—good enough to initiate from the perimeter or the high post or the low post or in transition or wherever. And yeah he needs to develop his handle and jumper, but check this out—look how good he can be as a guy who is below average in those areas. What that says to me is he has to be merely average at those things to be an all-star and if he ever gets above average at those things he will be a top 10 player and if gets really good at those things he will be generational.

Obviously there’s no guarantee that he gets there but if you can’t see the potential, then I dunno man. I dunno.

[pingpongrac]

I think some of y’all are too committed to whatever your initial ideas of what you thought Scottie isn’t to see what he actually is. Yeah he’s frustrating when he misses easy shots or is disengaged but I mean, if you can’t see the potential that’s there, I don’t know what to say.

Scottie, if all goes well in his development, and there’s no indication why it won’t, will be one of the most unique players of his era and potentially of all time. We have seen him takeover games in a variety of different ways against all sorts of competition, in home games, on road games, in first halves, in second halves, with passing, with jumpers, driving to the rim, post ups, steals, blocks, you name it. If he puts it all together he’s going to be scary good—good enough to initiate from the perimeter or the high post or the low post or in transition or wherever. And yeah he needs to develop his handle and jumper, but check this out—look how good he can be as a guy who is below average in those areas. What that says to me is he has to be merely average at those things to be an all-star and if he ever gets above average at those things he will be a top 10 player and if gets really good at those things he will be generational.

Obviously there’s no guarantee that he gets there but if you can’t see the potential, then I dunno man. I dunno.

See, this is the thing. I agree with almost everything you're saying and I've repeated it ad nauseum that I think Scottie has legitimate top 10 potential while he could be an all-star as soon as next season. I predicted an 18/8/5 type of year from Scottie this season and I hoped for a bit more progress in his jumper, but I'm pretty pleased with his performance overall. I don't know why it means I'm a hater whenever I say anything negative about Scottie though, especially when I'm generally of the mindset that it can be frustrating in the short term (and especially in the moment) while acknowledging he is still extremely young – both in terms of age and NBA experience – and it's part of the process where he needs to have these struggles and continue to work on/improve his game to be able to grow into a more complete player.

Scottie has an insanely high ceiling, but that shouldn't mean he should be immune to any criticism in the meantime when we're still trying to somewhat compete. His numbers this season are very similar to what they were last season across the board (-0.5 REB per36, -0.1 STL per36, +0.1 BLK per36, +0.2 PTS per36, +0.2 TOV per36) aside from a sizeable increase in APG/AST% (+1.4 AST per36 and +5.2 AST%) and a decrease in efficiency and impact (-2.7 TS%) while his impact has been that of an average starter (+0.2 EPM, +0.4 BPM, +0.5 RAPTOR, +0.65 RAPM). He has had some stretches where he already looks like a star, some stretches of being the ultimate glue guy, some stretches where he's just kind of there and other stretches where he plays as if he has no clue what to do which all amounts to him having a solid season and being a slightly impactful player overall.

The biggest factor in us getting off to a slow start this season was FVV and Scottie being very underwhelming in the first 20-25 games. I care more about the Scottie angle of things because I believe he has the potential to elevate our franchise to the top of the league again whereas FVV is a very good vet but nothing more than a 3rd/4th option in an ideal world.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think some of y’all are too committed to whatever your initial ideas of what you thought Scottie isn’t to see what he actually is. Yeah he’s frustrating when he misses easy shots or is disengaged but I mean, if you can’t see the potential that’s there, I don’t know what to say.

Scottie, if all goes well in his development, and there’s no indication why it won’t, will be one of the most unique players of his era and potentially of all time. We have seen him takeover games in a variety of different ways against all sorts of competition, in home games, on road games, in first halves, in second halves, with passing, with jumpers, driving to the rim, post ups, steals, blocks, you name it. If he puts it all together he’s going to be scary good—good enough to initiate from the perimeter or the high post or the low post or in transition or wherever. And yeah he needs to develop his handle and jumper, but check this out—look how good he can be as a guy who is below average in those areas. What that says to me is he has to be merely average at those things to be an all-star and if he ever gets above average at those things he will be a top 10 player and if gets really good at those things he will be generational.

Obviously there’s no guarantee that he gets there but if you can’t see the potential, then I dunno man. I dunno.

It's hard to develop shooting touch in the NBA, especially off the dribble. The indication is that he didn't show any improvement here and in fact seem to have lost some confidence and range on his hook/floater.

Efficiency down 50 points from 3-10 feet, efficiency down 150 points from 10-16. He's getting more dunks, but also his 2PT shots are assisted on more than last year. The opposite of what you want.

This is a down year in terms of scoring the ball for him, which is where I think most people, including myself, see his potential as a superstar. If he ends up as an Iguodala, that's still a winning player but not someone any team should hand the keys to. As they say, it's up to him.

[HumbleRen]

I wonder what are the odds of Scottie getting traded in the off season.

Siakam/Yakub/Scottie are a terrible fit long term wise imo.