Post-game : Knicks beat the breaks off the NJ nets while Ben Simmons was shook

[WargamesX]

all the reports said the knicks were caught off guard when mitchell was traded to cleveland, not that they turned it down. they expected to eventually reach a deal. i don't care about not getting him now but that's rewriting history.

True but they also signed RJ long term just prior. I thought the context of them being shocked wasn’t that DM got traded, but that Utah immediately traded him for assets in line with what NY had already offered. It wasn’t even a long process they just took the offer.

Same thing happened with Beasley and Vanderbilt. They made a fair offer Fournier, Toppin, and a draft pick and Ainge continues to try and rob them for additional assets and demanded another first rounder. Meanwhile he took Westbrook, scrap and a first to do the deal. Ainge either loathe’s the Knicks or has them categorized as a team to always exploit. Rose and them twice now approached Ainge on a fair trade bit.

I say all that to say this. You can’t judge Rose to Harshly regarding Utah. Ainge is working off an agenda to overcharge the Knicks everytime they engage.

[mpharris36]

I hate that we keep talking about this but the Knicks extended RJ prior to Utah making the deal with Clev. Negotiations had to start over, or end as they did. A lot of people killed the Knicks for that, but they had a price and deadline and walked away from the deal that was being negotiated.

regardless of your feelings of RJ. However it happened. Whether they intended to completely walk away by eventually signing RJ to the extension or they were trying to use there last leverage player to Utah...it worked out for the better.

I love Donovan Mitchell but lets be honest...Brunson would not be this Brunson with Mitchell. That might be a bit good fortune because Mitchell is a huge offensive weapon. But now Brunson is just as good IMO. And now we can better use our assets and resources to find a better fit to put us over the top.

[BKlutch]

The Knicks could have had a winning season in 2021-22 had Kemba and Fournier not replaced Rose and Bullock in their roles. Good thing that Kemba and Fournier were quickly replaced with Brunson and Hart.

Underrated part is Leon Rose being patient.

I am sure Knicks could've traded for Brunson. Lots of picks, young assets.
Randle looked terrible and Knicks could've send him away like a salary dump+pick.

But Rose stayed calm. Waited for the best time to make the moves. Let Randle get back to himself with a proper point guard.

Its very different than selling the house trade for Melo. Imagine if Knicks signed Carmelo 6 months later in FA. Using amnesty on Amare instead of Billups. That requires a patient front office. Rose is the best GM of the Knicks for 10+ years. Also bravo to Dolan as he does not exert win-now pressure on Rose. He seemed to learn not to be involved in decisions. Phil Jackson was not a good hire for the role but Rose makes ton of sense with his management background, agent relations.

The Mitchell non-trade really showed me a lot and I don’t think people are really analyzing it correctly in the context of the type of executive Rose is.

Like that trade was an easy immediate win that no one would have blamed Rose for making, but he decided to hold on to the assets, and not make the trade. Like what were people mad about? That he didn’t trade everything? Isn’t that what we expected him to do, if he was an executive who only cares about immediate results? It really showed me a lot.

Despite how much all of us screamed about developing the youth, the FO valued Grimes, IQ, etc. more than we did. In refusing to cave on that trade, they revealed their real plans

[mpharris36]

oh another factor is IQ wouldn't have thrived either playing behind two offensive guards. And you would have to start both Brunson and Mitchell (because Grimes was being traded) so who is guarding the oppositions best offensive weapon from the outset or to finish games?

We can argue until the cows come home who drew the line in the sand and who was surprised or shocked...but I don't think someone can argue we would be in a better position right now if we did go through with the Mitchell trade.

[BadNewsBarnes]

I guess we don't have to have that debate on who owns the city for awhile....

[FrozenEnvelope]

Game was over in the 1st quarter. Thibs has this team ready. Def deserves votes for COY. Brunson is elite! Mitch dominated the glass and interior. IQ doing everything. Hart is a 90s throwback. RJ played aight.

But what was up wit throwing alley oop's to Randle?

[WargamesX]

I guess we don't have to have that debate on who owns the city for awhile....

As far as I am concerned there never was a debate…..

[BKlutch]

Read on Twitter

[2010]

This feels more sustainable than 2 years ago

But I still think Thibs gets exposed in the playoffs because we're playing a short rotation and over-relying on Brunson and Randle going off most games

Unless RJ takes a massive step, which I doubt at this point, we're still one piece away from true contention. Frankly, Jaylen Brown would be absolutely perfect for us, because what we need is a 2-way wing who can shoot, but those guys are extremely valuable because they're pretty rare. Maybe Keldon Johnson could be an option, he's really close to being that and has a very reasonable contract, but he does still need a bit of work to get there

It is fun to watch the team though. Feels like we have a core of guys who are here for the forseeable future who are the ones doing the most of the work, not vet journeymen having career years to get paid and then regress. Like, the only guy who isn't under contract for next year or doesn't have a team option/non-guaranteed contract is Hart

I still think the FO needs to make a big move instead of just making small moves and talking about making a big move, though.

I would love to see the Knicks target a young wing on the way up like Trey Murphy. He does not require high usage to have high impact and he is an efficient point producer with great length. I’d give up RJ plus draft capital. He plays within himself and is a finisher, a shooter, and is automatic from the line. His size makes him a switchable defender.

[Capn'O]

Knicks were decisive on Son of Rick Brunson and indecisive on Mitchell. They also broke the Charlie Ward curse twice with RJ and Mitch. Without that, good luck would have been impossible. Good offseason.

[Paradise]

I guess we don't have to have that debate on who owns the city for awhile....

Not so fast. We own our 1st and will enter the lottery while having picks to deal for a star (KAT, Lavine, etc)

All depends on direction of choice. We should’ve dealt Kyrie and KD in the summer for a valid shot at Wemby and Scoot.

[2010]

Read on Twitter

Love this

I couldn’t hear the last question. Who is Scott?

[DOT]

I would love to see they Knicks target a young wing on the way up like Trey Murphy. He does not require high usage to have high impact and he is an efficient point producer with great length. I’d give up RJ plus draft capital. He plays within himself and is a finisher, a shooter, and is automatic from the line. His size makes him a switchable defender.

To me, a guy like Murphy is still a margins type move

Makes us better, but won't take us over the top

If we're talking about RJ plus picks, that's kind of the base we'd use for a star, so my math is, once you trade that, that's kind of it. So we gotta hit on whoever we get with that package

Unless you think there's a way we can get Murphy and Embiid without giving up any of Brunson/Grimes/Randle. That's my thing, we need another high level shot creator to make sure the offense is sustainable in the playoffs, cause I don't trust Randle and I don't think Grimes has that potential. But Brunson/Grimes/Murphy/Randle/Embiid with Quick and Hart off the bench would be a fantastic core imo.

[DOT]

I guess we don't have to have that debate on who owns the city for awhile....

Not so fast. We own our 1st and will enter the lottery while having picks to deal for a star (KAT, Lavine, etc)

All depends on direction of choice. We should’ve dealt Kyrie and KD in the summer for a valid shot at Wemby and Scoot.

This is some heavy-duty copium.

[Iron Mantis]

This team has a 2nd gear. They can punch a team in the mouth, cruise, then turn it on when they need to and finish the job.

This means the Knicks are elite?

[Knicksfan1992]

whether its getting lucky or being good Leon has had a lot of things fall his way this year.

Brunson signing
The Donovan Mitchell deal not being completed
The trade for Reddish that didn't work out but then led to the acquisition of Hart

We are legit good now and with how good Brunson is playing and the depth of our team...you can legit say we are probably 1 piece away from being a contender.

Leon deserves credit for getting a lot of the things on the margins right. Gives you a lot more room for error on the big things and makes it easier to fix past mistakes.

Having Deuce be a competent rotation piece as a 2nd rounder allowed Thibs to drop Cam.

When Mitch goes down the Knicks can still put out a competent C rotation because he hit on Sims as a late 2nd round pick.

Having Quickley and Grimes be major parts of the rotation as late 1st round picks allowed him the ability to pivot a lot easier off of the disaster of last year because you could bank on rookie scale guys giving you solid production this year.

The Knicks of the past would have had trouble swinging a trade for Hart because we would have been too worried about our future asset pool. Now that we have young guys and a plethora of picks it makes it easier to swallow giving up a 1st this year.

Those little wins on the margins add up over time. Many teams don't hit on more than one late 1st or second round picks and Leon has hit on a few now.

[2010]

I would love to see they Knicks target a young wing on the way up like Trey Murphy. He does not require high usage to have high impact and he is an efficient point producer with great length. I’d give up RJ plus draft capital. He plays within himself and is a finisher, a shooter, and is automatic from the line. His size makes him a switchable defender.

To me, a guy like Murphy is still a margins type move

Makes us better, but won't take us over the top

If we're talking about RJ plus picks, that's kind of the base we'd use for a star, so my math is, once you trade that, that's kind of it. So we gotta hit on whoever we get with that package

Unless you think there's a way we can get Murphy and Embiid without giving up any of Brunson/Grimes/Randle. That's my thing, we need another high level shot creator to make sure the offense is sustainable in the playoffs, cause I don't trust Randle and I don't think Grimes has that potential. But Brunson/Grimes/Murphy/Randle/Embiid with Quick and Hart off the bench would be a fantastic core imo.

I can’t see Philly trading Embiid. And in Murphy I see a guy who is only scratching the surface. He is not a shot creator but I project him to eventually have star impact playing off others. Kind of like Klay. The thing is it’s still early in his development and the Pelicans are so deep they aren’t really maximizing Murphy by allowing him to shoot on higher volumes.

Griffin would probably bite on RJ + picks as it’d reunite Zion and RJ which would be good PR, while thinning the herd a bit for them and acquiring assets. We could have them match salary by throwing in additional players. Nance and/or Alvarado plus filler.

[GONYK]

whether its getting lucky or being good Leon has had a lot of things fall his way this year.

Brunson signing
The Donovan Mitchell deal not being completed
The trade for Reddish that didn't work out but then led to the acquisition of Hart

We are legit good now and with how good Brunson is playing and the depth of our team...you can legit say we are probably 1 piece away from being a contender.

Leon deserves credit for getting a lot of the things on the margins right. Gives you a lot more room for error on the big things and makes it easier to fix past mistakes.

Having Deuce be a competent rotation piece as a 2nd rounder allowed Thibs to drop Cam.

When Mitch goes down the Knicks can still put out a competent C rotation because he hit on Sims as a late 2nd round pick.

Having Quickley and Grimes be major parts of the rotation as late 1st round picks allowed him the ability to pivot a lot easier off of the disaster of last year because you could bank on rookie scale guys giving you solid production this year.

The Knicks of the past would have had trouble swinging a trade for Hart because we would have been too worried about our future asset pool. Now that we have young guys and a plethora of picks it makes it easier to swallow giving up a 1st this year.

Those little wins on the margins add up over time. Many teams don't hit on more than one late 1st or second round picks and Leon has hit on a few now.

I agree, but I think calling those margin moves is underselling it.

The strategy was to collect assets while being competent. We brought on Walt Perrin because hitting on our late picks was part of that strategy. If you are comfortable that you can get rotation talent outside of the lotto, it gives you more flexibility with how you use your draft capital.

It all builds on itself.

[GONYK]

I would love to see they Knicks target a young wing on the way up like Trey Murphy. He does not require high usage to have high impact and he is an efficient point producer with great length. I’d give up RJ plus draft capital. He plays within himself and is a finisher, a shooter, and is automatic from the line. His size makes him a switchable defender.

To me, a guy like Murphy is still a margins type move

Makes us better, but won't take us over the top

If we're talking about RJ plus picks, that's kind of the base we'd use for a star, so my math is, once you trade that, that's kind of it. So we gotta hit on whoever we get with that package

Unless you think there's a way we can get Murphy and Embiid without giving up any of Brunson/Grimes/Randle. That's my thing, we need another high level shot creator to make sure the offense is sustainable in the playoffs, cause I don't trust Randle and I don't think Grimes has that potential. But Brunson/Grimes/Murphy/Randle/Embiid with Quick and Hart off the bench would be a fantastic core imo.

I can’t see Philly trading Embiid. And in Murphy I see a guy who is only scratching the surface. He is not a shot creator but I project him to eventually have star impact playing off others. Kind of like Klay. The thing is it’s still early in his development and the Pelicans are so deep they aren’t really maximizing Murphy by allowing him to shoot on higher volumes.

Griffin would probably bite on RJ + picks as it’d reunite Zion and RJ which would be good PR, while thinning the herd a bit for them and acquiring assets. We could have them match salary by throwing in additional players. Nance and/or Alvarado plus filler.

If Philly loses in the playoffs early again, I don't think Joel will give them a choice.

[god shammgod]

Knicks were decisive on Son of Rick Brunson and indecisive on Mitchell. They also broke the Charlie Ward curse twice with RJ and Mitch. Without that, good luck would have been impossible. Good offseason.

one was a free agent. if they could have signed mitchell outright too, or the jazz took their first offer, you think they would have hesitated ?