Giannis - 2X MVP - FMVP - DPOY - Offseason discussion

[WRau1]

I think it's going to be hard for Giannis to win MVP over Jokic this season. Jokic has been incredible and our records are close enough to where the triple doubles will outshine basically anything Giannis does.

Depends on how long this winning streak can continue. If they push this over 20, voters will have a hard time not talking about him as MVP.

True but if DEN stays in 1st out West while Jokic keeps racking up triples doubles (while winning), I still think it's his award.

[machu46]

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love hasan for calling their ass

Dude had my vote to take over the show with the interview. Now I think he’s up there with Stewart. Wow.

Hasan is excellent. I've seen him live once or twice and his Netflix show was great too. The Daily Show would be lucky to have him as a permanent host.

[Prez]

Where is the defence gets ignored thing coming from?

Also find it funny Giannis is getting propped up defensively when he’s having the lowest stocks season of his career. The guy is putting in less and less effort on that end every season.

When did stocks become the gauge of how good someone is defensively?

Among players who’ve contested 150+ FGA within 6 feet, Giannis is #1 in the league, holding opponents to 16.1% (lol) worse shooting at that range. Overall he’s holding opponents to 7.5% worse shooting, which among guys who’ve guarded a similar volume of shots is #1 by a distance. Even when Brook is off the floor (and filtering out any Nwora minutes lol), the Bucks still have the equivalent of the #1 defense in the league.

Giannis is still a menace defensively and the anchor of an absolutely elite team defense.

The reason the “defense gets ignored” stuff is out there is because it absolutely does get pushed far to the side in the MVP discussion by a massive portion of the media and voter base.

[sidney lanier]

Bucks to Nashville confirmed

She dropped her hands and stood erect. Her face became smooth and untroubled except for the faintest of dubious glints in her eyes. She smiled back at him, gently. “Don’t, Sam, don’t say that even in fun." -- Dashiell Hammett, The Maltese Falcon

[machu46]

I think it's going to be hard for Giannis to win MVP over Jokic this season. Jokic has been incredible and our records are close enough to where the triple doubles will outshine basically anything Giannis does.

Even beyond the triple doubles, some of the advanced metrics on Jokic are so bonkers crazy you'd think it was just like a 5 game sample size or something.

On/Off:
- Jokic: +24.4
- Giannis: +7.2
- Embiid: +10.4
- Luka: +4.3
- Tatum: +8.6

BPM:
- Jokic: +13.3
- Giannis: +8.2
- Embiid: +8.5
- Luka: +10.0
- Tatum: +5.4

WS:
- Jokic: 12.3
- Giannis: 6.8
- Embiid: 8.6
- Luka: 9.1
- Tatum: 8.3

And he has a TS% over 70% lol.

Giannis is the best player in the league IMO and is leading the team with the best record in the league but Jokic's numbers are a lot to overcome.

[Shaffty]

I think it's going to be hard for Giannis to win MVP over Jokic this season. Jokic has been incredible and our records are close enough to where the triple doubles will outshine basically anything Giannis does.

Even beyond the triple doubles, some of the advanced metrics on Jokic are so bonkers crazy you'd think it was just like a 5 game sample size or something.

On/Off:
- Jokic: +24.4
- Giannis: +7.2
- Embiid: +10.4
- Luka: +4.3
- Tatum: +8.6

BPM:
- Jokic: +13.3
- Giannis: +8.2
- Embiid: +8.5
- Luka: +10.0
- Tatum: +5.4

WS:
- Jokic: 12.3
- Giannis: 6.8
- Embiid: 8.6
- Luka: 9.1
- Tatum: 8.3

And he has a TS% over 70% lol.

Giannis is the best player in the league IMO and is leading the team with the best record in the league but Jokic's numbers are a lot to overcome.

All public metrics suck they have no idea how to quantify defense. Giannis on/off hurt because the bucks have an elite bench

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[Ron Swanson]

The on/off stuff is always noisy (much to the chagrin of Jokic stans) and should never be taken at face value, but let's not act like Jokic isn't completely lapping the field in all the other stats as well. It's clear at this point that Giannis doesn't really care to go all-out for MVP's anymore and that's just the trade-off we have to accept as he ages and our priorities remain focused on being as healthy as possible for the postseason.

[VooDoo7]

The year following Giannis' 2nd MVP, all the talking heads said there's no way he'll win 3 straight. They wouldn't give him the time of day when discussing the MVP race. Voter fatigue, yadda yadda. Yet nobody is mentioning that with Jokic this year. Bullsh*t.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

The year following Giannis' 2nd MVP, all the talking heads said there's no way he'll win 3 straight. They wouldn't give him the time of day when discussing the MVP race. Voter fatigue, yadda yadda. Yet nobody is mentioning that with Jokic this year. Bullsh*t.

2 wrongs don't make a right. As i said in other threads, Giannis immediately proved the narrative wrong by winning the championship in 2021. Hopefully, some media members wont write off guys because of not winning a championship when it is really f-ing hard to do and takes a lot of luck/team success.

[tydett]

Honestly at the point where I don't care about MVPs and frankly don't think it will ultimately make a deal in Giannis' legacy. He'll be remembered for winning three titles in little old Milwaukee far more than for MVPs.

I don't care what the media says, Giannis is MVP every year for me and as good and fun as Jokic is, I wouldn't take any other player over him ever. We're super lucky to get to watch his career and have a rooting interest.

[machu46]

The year following Giannis' 2nd MVP, all the talking heads said there's no way he'll win 3 straight. They wouldn't give him the time of day when discussing the MVP race. Voter fatigue, yadda yadda. Yet nobody is mentioning that with Jokic this year. Bullsh*t.

I choose to view this as progress that unfortunately didn’t happen soon enough for Giannis.


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[emunney]

I think it's going to be hard for Giannis to win MVP over Jokic this season. Jokic has been incredible and our records are close enough to where the triple doubles will outshine basically anything Giannis does.

Even beyond the triple doubles, some of the advanced metrics on Jokic are so bonkers crazy you'd think it was just like a 5 game sample size or something.

On/Off:
- Jokic: +24.4
- Giannis: +7.2
- Embiid: +10.4
- Luka: +4.3
- Tatum: +8.6

BPM:
- Jokic: +13.3
- Giannis: +8.2
- Embiid: +8.5
- Luka: +10.0
- Tatum: +5.4

WS:
- Jokic: 12.3
- Giannis: 6.8
- Embiid: 8.6
- Luka: 9.1
- Tatum: 8.3

And he has a TS% over 70% lol.

Giannis is the best player in the league IMO and is leading the team with the best record in the league but Jokic's numbers are a lot to overcome.

Jokic's +/- numbers are hyperinflated from a level that might still be better than anybody else. Malone doesn't stagger and their bench (in particular Jokic's primary backup for most of the year, DAJ) is awful.

[emunney]

If the Bucks finish with the better record in the better conference with Midds missing more than half the year and being a part time player in more than half the rest of the year, I think Giannis wins a close vote. But maybe Jrue gets that extra credit and makes an All NBA team like Simmons has been pushing. Maybe both.

[VooDoo7]

The year following Giannis' 2nd MVP, all the talking heads said there's no way he'll win 3 straight. They wouldn't give him the time of day when discussing the MVP race. Voter fatigue, yadda yadda. Yet nobody is mentioning that with Jokic this year. Bullsh*t.

I choose to view this as progress that unfortunately didn’t happen soon enough for Giannis.

That sure happened quickly.

[skbucks1985]

The year following Giannis' 2nd MVP, all the talking heads said there's no way he'll win 3 straight. They wouldn't give him the time of day when discussing the MVP race. Voter fatigue, yadda yadda. Yet nobody is mentioning that with Jokic this year. Bullsh*t.

I choose to view this as progress that unfortunately didn’t happen soon enough for Giannis.

That sure happened quickly.

And its also not why its happening. Jokic is still the MVP frontrunner while Giannis wasn't a contender in 21 because Jokic is being given a pass for his lack of playoff success because of Jamal Murray's injury. If he wins the MVP again and the Nuggets get bounced in the 2nd round this season Jokic could average a 40 point triple-double next year and he won't win the MVP next season, and I'm only slightly hyperbolic.

[greekbuck34]

Giannis in the last 15 games is shooting 38% from the 3p line and 40% from the midrange.

Also imagine Giannis on/off numbers if we were playing a lineup of:

Jrue/Pat/Middleton/Giannis/Lopez for 35 minutes and a lineup of
Carter/Wes/Allen/Ingles/Leonard for 13 minutes.

Because that's what's going on in Denver for 3-4 years.

[CharityStripe34]

Jokic has an awesome case, he's an awesome player and is leading the Nuggets to a great season thus far. He's most assuredly a strong candidate. My issue is that Gianni's case is dismissed as "HIS PER AND TS% ARE LOWEST SINCE 2018!!!!" as if that's the only way to assess an MVP candidate. Or as if he's not having a historically great season. First 30/10/5 season with 50%FG or better since freakin' Kareem and Wilt (the only other two to do it). And doing that while he will get some votes for DPOY and will be a unanimous 1st team/1st team All-Defense. While also missing his second best player for 70% of the season.

But, true, as others have said he'll need a gaudy stat (besides, y'know, wins) like leading the league in scoring or something to build up a narrative. Offense weighs much more heavily in MVP voting than defense.

[emunney]

Jokic has an awesome case, he's an awesome player and is leading the Nuggets to a great season thus far. He's most assuredly a strong candidate. My issue is that Gianni's case is dismissed as "HIS PER AND TS% ARE LOWEST SINCE 2018!!!!" as if that's the only way to assess an MVP candidate. Or as if he's not having a historically great season. First 30/10/5 season with 50%FG or better since freakin' Kareem and Wilt (the only other two to do it). And doing that while he will get some votes for DPOY and will be a unanimous 1st team/1st team All-Defense. While also missing his second best player for 70% of the season.

But, true, as others have said he'll need a gaudy stat (besides, y'know, wins) like leading the league in scoring or something to build up a narrative. Offense weighs much more heavily in MVP voting than defense.

I usually think of MVP voters as a collection of different constituencies, and you have to build a consensus among them. Best Player on Best Team is maybe the single biggest voting bloc and is still up for grabs. Most Dominant is in Giannis' pocket, and Best Offensive Player is a big bloc and belongs to Joker. Joker is going to get some Voter Fatigue defectors, but they're probably more likely to go to someone who hasn't won one, like Embiid or Tatum.

[Magic Giannison]

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[Magic Giannison]

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