NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[Sharkboy242]

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.



this is how I imagine Jokic Stans

lol

Sad how insecure you seem to be about your favorite basketball player not winning MVP.

Take a look in the mirror brother, Giannis has his MVPs and a ring so what is there to be insecure about? Its Jokic fans who live vicariously thru these media trophies & regular season counting stats, they're the ones going "ackshully Jokic is more dominant than Wilt Chamberlain & Larry Bird if you look at the x-axis on this graph" and constantly throw all his teammates/coaches under the bus. I don't need a stat sheet or equation to tell me who the better player is, only thru those can anybody even make an argument otherwise.

You're the one who has to resort to calling Jokic fat. I know what insecurity looks like, believe me. There's plenty of Giannis fans who don't go around playing the childish game you are.

As much as we want to diverge from this fact, the MVP award happens in a vacuum. October through April, that's all that matters. Congrats to Giannis and his championship, but it's not relevant to this thread, and I don't think anyone contests Giannis having had better postseason success than Jokic.

And on the comment of living vicariously through someone, aren't you doing the same thing with Giannis? Congrats for picking a favorite basket player and trying to claim superiority over other people for it I guess? At the end of the day your life isn't any better than ours for it.

[NyKnicks1714]

The reality is that it's understandable for Bucks & 76ers fans to attempt to prod holes into Jokic because realistically they know their guy doesn't have a shot at MVP barring injury. So now they're questioning whether Jokic stat pads based on a low IQ take by a certified bum in Kendrick Perkins. Let them have their moment!

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.

This thread is literally about the NBA MVP award, not championships or postseason play or Finals MVP. You're not doing yourself or anyone else a favor by shouting "well the MVP award is stupid and meaningless anyway".

[Magic Giannison]

I like how many in here pretend tat payoff performance doesn't affect the MVP votes when the most prominent media influences and voters. Guess what Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons,Stephen A Smith etc. were saying about Giannis not winning his 3rd in a row MVP?

Read on Twitter

Here, have a nice thread about it if you're interested.

[JayMKE]

The reality is that it's understandable for Bucks & 76ers fans to attempt to prod holes into Jokic because realistically they know their guy doesn't have a shot at MVP barring injury. So now they're questioning whether Jokic stat pads based on a low IQ take by a certified bum in Kendrick Perkins. Let them have their moment!

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.

This thread is literally about the NBA MVP award, not championships or postseason play or Finals MVP. You're not doing yourself or anyone else a favor by shouting "well the MVP award is stupid and meaningless anyway".

MVP is a media narrative award, its literally whatever sportswriters say it is so my opinion on its criteria is as valid as theirs or yours. Giannis is the better player on the better team that everybody gives a much better chance in the postseason this season so I think he's the MVP, simple as. Jokic being a non-rim-protecting big without much lateral quickness is a liability to get cooked on switches in the playoffs, bigs much better than Jokic defensively get played off the floor in the postseason so I see it as a major hurdle that needs to be gotten over for me to be believe he can truly be a #1 who carries his team. The fact we're talking about a guy winning 3 MVPs and not being sure he's even a postseason player I think is a valid criticism, so if Jokic gets bounced again early comes back with better stats next year do you think he should be a 4x MVP? There's a problem with the award at that point, its lost prestige and meaning.

[Sharkboy242]

I like how many in here pretend tat payoff performance doesn't affect the MVP votes when the most prominent media influences and voters. Guess what Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons,Stephen A Smith etc. were saying about Giannis not winning his 3rd in a row MVP?

Read on Twitter

Here, have a nice thread about it if you're interested.

Pretty sure Giannis didn't win because Jokic had a better REGULAR SEASON that year.

[GeorgeSears]

I like how many in here pretend tat payoff performance doesn't affect the MVP votes when the most prominent media influences and voters. Guess what Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons,Stephen A Smith etc. were saying about Giannis not winning his 3rd in a row MVP?

Read on Twitter

Here, have a nice thread about it if you're interested.

The problem with this narrative is that is assumes Giannis was the runaway favorite to win his third, but the voters held back because of his lack of playoff success.

The reality is completely different: The Nuggets had a better record, they finished the season with Jamal Murray missing the last 24 games, Giannis missed 12 games - Jokic missed none, Jokic put up better numbers.

Giannis winning over Jokic would've been a robbery. There was no slam dunk case for Giannis in 20/21.

[Sharkboy242]

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.

This thread is literally about the NBA MVP award, not championships or postseason play or Finals MVP. You're not doing yourself or anyone else a favor by shouting "well the MVP award is stupid and meaningless anyway".

MVP is a media narrative award, its literally whatever sportswriters say it is so my opinion on its criteria is as valid as theirs or yours. Giannis is the better player on the better team that everybody gives a much better chance in the postseason this season so I think he's the MVP, simple as. Jokic being a non-rim-protecting big without much lateral quickness is a liability to get cooked on switches in the playoffs, bigs much better than Jokic defensively get played off the floor in the postseason so I see it as a major hurdle that needs to be gotten over for me to be believe he can truly be a #1 who carries his team. The fact we're talking about a guy winning 3 MVPs and not being sure he's even a postseason player I think is a valid criticism, so if Jokic gets bounced again early comes back with better stats next year do you think he should be a 4x MVP? There's a problem with the award at that point, its lost prestige and meaning.

You know that Giannis failed 5 times in the postseason before finally winning right? The hubris is really funny.

He also failed last postseason. That makes him 1 for 7. Its almost as if its a team sport and context matters

[Magic Giannison]

I like how many in here pretend tat payoff performance doesn't affect the MVP votes when the most prominent media influences and voters. Guess what Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons,Stephen A Smith etc. were saying about Giannis not winning his 3rd in a row MVP?

Read on Twitter

Here, have a nice thread about it if you're interested.

The problem with this narrative is that is assumes Giannis was the runaway favorite to win his third, but the voters held back because of his lack of playoff success.

The reality is completely different: The Nuggets had a better record, they finished the season with Jamal Murray missing the last 24 games, Giannis missed 12 games - Jokic missed none, Jokic put up better numbers.

Giannis winning over Jokic would've been a robbery. There was no slam dunk case for Giannis in 20/21.

No its not different because it nullifies their credibility no matter how much was the chance for Giannis winning,thats not the point.

When you begin the argument but saying that you disqualify someone because of their playoff performance then you automatically lose the credibility of saying thats only a regular season award.


You can argue many ways on why Jokic could win the MVP and i would agree with many but this idea and notion that media doesnt love him or doesnt change the narrative for the MVP is simply not true.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I like how many in here pretend tat payoff performance doesn't affect the MVP votes when the most prominent media influences and voters. Guess what Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons,Stephen A Smith etc. were saying about Giannis not winning his 3rd in a row MVP?

Read on Twitter

Here, have a nice thread about it if you're interested.

If anything, I think it supports Jokic. Guys are labeled not effective/not a winner until they are not. LBJ had a label, Giannis had that label, took Jordan a while to win anything, etc. Hell you can flip from a career choker like Lowry to someone the media says is a clutch vet in Lowry based on one lucky run.

[DutchManDanFan]

I wonder how many of you listened to Perkins without bias.
His point: Jokic averaged 9.5 assists per game. Then he started to take less shots and got more assists and got his average above 10 assists. Is’t this just true? Why all the fuzz about this?

I don’t agree with everything he said and insinuated around this. But it’s good he noted this and asked questions about it. The simple answer is the Nuggets win a lot of games so who cares.

Let me ask you. What is Denver's record when Jokic has 10 or more assists?

Let me ask you. Did you read my last sentence?

[GeorgeSears]

You can argue many ways on why Jokic could win the MVP and i would agree with many but this idea and notion that media doesnt love him or doesnt change the narrative for the MVP is simply not true.

I think it's also false to assume the media is changing narratives for MVP. If the previous MVP races have taught us anything it's that the criteria is pretty straightforward: Advanced numbers, availability, team record, usually in that order. If you check all three, you're the MVP front runner.

[Wolfgang630]

I don’t think postseason should be accounted for in a regular season award.

[JayMKE]

This thread is literally about the NBA MVP award, not championships or postseason play or Finals MVP. You're not doing yourself or anyone else a favor by shouting "well the MVP award is stupid and meaningless anyway".

MVP is a media narrative award, its literally whatever sportswriters say it is so my opinion on its criteria is as valid as theirs or yours. Giannis is the better player on the better team that everybody gives a much better chance in the postseason this season so I think he's the MVP, simple as. Jokic being a non-rim-protecting big without much lateral quickness is a liability to get cooked on switches in the playoffs, bigs much better than Jokic defensively get played off the floor in the postseason so I see it as a major hurdle that needs to be gotten over for me to be believe he can truly be a #1 who carries his team. The fact we're talking about a guy winning 3 MVPs and not being sure he's even a postseason player I think is a valid criticism, so if Jokic gets bounced again early comes back with better stats next year do you think he should be a 4x MVP? There's a problem with the award at that point, its lost prestige and meaning.

You know that Giannis failed 5 times in the postseason before finally winning right? The hubris is really funny.

He also failed last postseason. That makes him 1 for 7. Its almost as if its a team sport and context matters

Its not hubris, its literally the argument we heard against Giannis when he won his 2 MVPs before the narrative changed & the goalposts were moved. If Jokic ever goes on a championship run and drops 50 points in the deciding game on his way to a finals MVP, you'll feel similarly validated but until then there are going to be doubts. I don't see it ever being worked out defensively because of his physical limitations, what championship teams have ever been that soft at the 5? I think as a player he's a bit of novelty in his body shape & playing style, is there anything special gained by your center racking up a bunch of assists? It's way more important for your 5 to anchor your D, its a liability to get targeted in the postseason for sure. Jokic is a supremely talented offensive player but how dominant he is I don't know, efficiency over the course of the RS doesn't mean much in crunch time and the guy who can shove it up their ass the easy way or the hard way is the guy who is going to win.

[Sgt Major]

Read on Twitter

[Magic Giannison]

You can argue many ways on why Jokic could win the MVP and i would agree with many but this idea and notion that media doesnt love him or doesnt change the narrative for the MVP is simply not true.

I think it's also false to assume the media is changing narratives for MVP. If the previous MVP races have taught us anything it's that the criteria is pretty straightforward: Advanced numbers, availability, team record, usually in that order. If you check all three, you're the MVP front runner.

Again, like the point i made above literally proves you wrong, same thing about the injury narrative. Nobody talks about them when last year it was one of the bigger factors when it came to MVP discussion.

I like how you even yourself change the narrative of advance numbers being first when multiple times media on TV were saying that team record matters the most and then the rest. They even used the Westbrook MVP winning as an once in a lifetime exception because he averaged a triple double after 30 years or so.

Its always about narratives and as long there isn't a base criteria established they can and will change it all the time to suit either their narrative or to get more clicks and create discussions.

[Johnny Firpo]

double post

[Johnny Firpo]

Its not hubris, its literally the argument we heard against Giannis when he won his 2 MVPs before the narrative changed & the goalposts were moved. If Jokic ever goes on a championship run and drops 50 points in the deciding game on his way to a finals MVP, you'll feel similarly validated but until then there are going to be doubts. I don't see it ever being worked out defensively because of his physical limitations, what championship teams have ever been that soft at the 5? I think as a player he's a bit of novelty in his body shape & playing style, is there anything special gained by your center racking up a bunch of assists? It's way more important for your 5 to anchor your D, its a liability to get targeted in the postseason for sure. Jokic is a supremely talented offensive player but how dominant he is I don't know, efficiency over the course of the RS doesn't mean much in crunch time and the guy who can shove it up their ass the easy way or the hard way is the guy who is going to win.

I hate the "goalpost have been moved" posts/argument sooooo much. No one ever said that if a center averages a triple-double on freakin' 70% TS, he shouldn't win if he won two before. Who made that argument? No one, because no one thought Jokic could play at this level, not even his biggest fans, and not even last year, it really is that simple. It's not that the goalpost has been moved, they're still at the same place, he just made them irrelevant by having the best regular season of all-time (by quite a big margin I add).

[Magic Giannison]

Read on Twitter

This is easily explained by not only Nuggets bench is terrible but also to the way Nuggets are one of the few if not the only team that subs all 5 of their players with bench which highly inflates their on off and general +- numbers.

[Magic Giannison]

MVP is a media narrative award, its literally whatever sportswriters say it is so my opinion on its criteria is as valid as theirs or yours. Giannis is the better player on the better team that everybody gives a much better chance in the postseason this season so I think he's the MVP, simple as. Jokic being a non-rim-protecting big without much lateral quickness is a liability to get cooked on switches in the playoffs, bigs much better than Jokic defensively get played off the floor in the postseason so I see it as a major hurdle that needs to be gotten over for me to be believe he can truly be a #1 who carries his team. The fact we're talking about a guy winning 3 MVPs and not being sure he's even a postseason player I think is a valid criticism, so if Jokic gets bounced again early comes back with better stats next year do you think he should be a 4x MVP? There's a problem with the award at that point, its lost prestige and meaning.

You know that Giannis failed 5 times in the postseason before finally winning right? The hubris is really funny.

He also failed last postseason. That makes him 1 for 7. Its almost as if its a team sport and context matters

Its not hubris, its literally the argument we heard against Giannis when he won his 2 MVPs before the narrative changed & the goalposts were moved. If Jokic ever goes on a championship run and drops 50 points in the deciding game on his way to a finals MVP, you'll feel similarly validated but until then there are going to be doubts. I don't see it ever being worked out defensively because of his physical limitations, what championship teams have ever been that soft at the 5? I think as a player he's a bit of novelty in his body shape & playing style, is there anything special gained by your center racking up a bunch of assists? It's way more important for your 5 to anchor your D, its a liability to get targeted in the postseason for sure. Jokic is a supremely talented offensive player but how dominant he is I don't know, efficiency over the course of the RS doesn't mean much in crunch time and the guy who can shove it up their ass the easy way or the hard way is the guy who is going to win.

it is hilarious that making the playoffs and losing is somehow a failure but not making at all is somehow better?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2019.html

This is the team that Giannis carried to 60 wins and to ECF at the age of 24,some of the prominent names starting for the Bucks are.

Eric Bledsoe, Sterling Brow, Mathe Dellevadova , Thon Maker, john Henson along the many.

yet it is considered a failure he made it to ECF and was so close to go 3-0 against the Raptors who had the best defense in the NBA since the 2004 Pistons......


I applaud in amusement .

[NyKnicks1714]

lol our moment is when the real MVP raises the trophy in June, your moment is a media given award & making up excuses for why Jokic gets bounced every year without much of a whimper. Too much of a novelty being a fat white guy who is 7 foot and PASSES, whattttttt? A center that gets assists!?!?!?!?! That must count as a double assist or something, that's way more valuable than a guard passing obviously. Jokic "plays the right way", you know, not like some athletic 2 way player that can dominate both sides of the game and is a proven winner in the postseason. He passes and is really efficient over the course of 82 games, obviously that's the MOST valuable skillset in the league which is why it translates so easily to the postseason.

This thread is literally about the NBA MVP award, not championships or postseason play or Finals MVP. You're not doing yourself or anyone else a favor by shouting "well the MVP award is stupid and meaningless anyway".

MVP is a media narrative award, its literally whatever sportswriters say it is so my opinion on its criteria is as valid as theirs or yours. Giannis is the better player on the better team that everybody gives a much better chance in the postseason this season so I think he's the MVP, simple as. Jokic being a non-rim-protecting big without much lateral quickness is a liability to get cooked on switches in the playoffs, bigs much better than Jokic defensively get played off the floor in the postseason so I see it as a major hurdle that needs to be gotten over for me to be believe he can truly be a #1 who carries his team. The fact we're talking about a guy winning 3 MVPs and not being sure he's even a postseason player I think is a valid criticism, so if Jokic gets bounced again early comes back with better stats next year do you think he should be a 4x MVP? There's a problem with the award at that point, its lost prestige and meaning.

It's not an "opinion" that the MVP is purely a regular season award, it's a fact, so no, your criteria that the postseason matters is not valid. If I think the Dunk Contest winner should be the guy with the best mid-range game, it's not as valid as the judges' criteria.