Draymond: “European players have not caught the same flak of winning a championship as US players

[CS707]

So, 25% of the SAS list Draymond is commenting on is European and approximately 25% of NBA players are European?

Seems proportionally correct.

[shi-woo]

Even if thats what he means. Whats wrong with that?

I don't think it's accurate.

Well if we talking about players like Jokic. He does not have the expectations and pressure of winning championships like the Brons, Kds of the world

Because those guys were drafted #1 and #2 respectively in historic drafts, were famous before they even went to the combine, and had been scouted since they were babies. They were household names. They had expectations of being multiple time winners before they even played a game in the NBA. Teams literally planned tanks for years to get a shot at those guys.

Jokic was some fat white Euro stiff drafted 41st in 2014. Projects like Bruno and centers like Mitch McGary (loved him in college though) were taken before this dude. No one expected him to become that guy. Half the NBA community still can't believe that arguably the most talented and creative basketball player on the planet is some "fat" plodding, slow, awkward white dude from Serbia.

That is why guys like Jokic and Giannis don't get that type of flak. Because their stories will be appreciated for how obscure they are, with or without a ring. Luka is the one exception, because he was a phenom, but look how you all treat him.

The same people who are probably in here trashing Luka, are the same one who don't understand why some of us believer were so shocked not only when he went #3, but was subsequently traded The NBA community unfortunately for people like Dray here, is that they still have yet to accept or explain how in the hell that happened. Luka from day one has been playing and succeeding with a lottery roster short of assets. Again, what he's doing so far, like Jokic and Giannis, is more feel good, and appropriate.

Jokic def. has championship expectations this year for sure, and no one is denying that. Luka should have ZERO championship expectations this year. Next year, if they can fill out they roster, we will see.

Other than that, who else is he talking about?

Can't be Giannis, the dude who the media and talking heads all had wrapped up and shipped to LA or MIA if they didn't win in 2021? Can't be that guy.

Who else could Green be talking about? Even if it is white players, how many other white dudes are leading teams to the NBA finals and making All-NBA teams?

Embiid? Dude gets taken to the cleaner just as much as LBJ and KD these days.

[MagicBagley18]

To me this is a shot at jokic potentially getting a 3rd straight mvp award….dirk got killed before 2011. Giannis was getting criticism before he won.

Luka will absolutely start catching heat if he doesn’t make the finals or have more deep playoff runs over the next 2 years. Hard to criticize him now when he just made the wcf and was huge. Jokic will continue to get more pressure the longer he goes without a finals appearance and especially this year if he’s mvp and there’s no wcf.

[Pachinko_]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

To be fair, we should've won that Raptors series. Kawhi or not Kawhi we could've closed them off in that overtime, or in that G7 at home. And Giannis didn't play very well by his standards, he was a bit rough to watch at times. I can't recall Jokic ever not playing well in the play offs, and half the time his best teammate was Barton (who got cut this year).

[adubmac]

I love Steph and Klay but the worst thing they ever did was make Draymond relevant enough where he has a platform to spew his nonsense

[skones]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

To be fair, we should've won that Raptors series. Kawhi or not Kawhi we could've closed them off in that overtime, or in that G7 at home. And Giannis didn't play very well by his standards, he was a bit rough to watch at times. I can't recall Jokic ever not playing well in the play offs, and half the time his best teammate was Barton (who got cut this year).

For the last three years, Jokic's defenses have been absolutely toasted with him on the floor vs. him off.

[Bank Shot]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

It definitely makes sense. Giannis had two years where he had a championship level team and didn't make the finals. No shame in losing to that Raptors team but the bubble was ugly. This year is Jokic's first real shot. Giannis wouldn't have gotten nearly as much criticism if he went down with Will Barton as his second-leading scorer or a Rivers/Campazzo backcourt.

[Kilroy]

Is there anything Professional Athletes don't catch feelings over?

[TwitterFingers]

Draymond is just hating as per usual with him

[Magic Giannison]

What is he talking about? I recall watching Dirk's career, I remember all the flak he got for the 1st round exits, the Finals loss to Miami. Dirk was a media punching bag when it came to being "too soft" and not good enough to win it all, up until 2011.

Giannis was getting flak before he won? I sure remember he was. How can anyone say Jokic isnt getting flak. Any conversation on here, on social media, on ESPN. Whenever Jokic's name comes up people bring up the case that he's winning MVPs and it looks bad that he is winning MVPs but not winning it all. Luka just turned 24, so he is still young enough where that conversation isnt constant with him.

I cant even say this is just nowadays short term thinking, because again anyone who watched Dirk's career saw this being a massive talking point. But again its not a short term thing because this is one of the most talked about things with Jokic at the moment. Even though Jokic hasnt gone and teamed up with another All NBA level player, hell he still hasnt played with an all star yet.

Giannis was getting called playoff choker and no bag run and dunk despite carrying Eric Bledsoe to a 60 wins team and then becoming 2 times MVP and DPOY.

Heck, people were still talking **** about Giannis even after Bucks swept the Heat. it stopped after Bucks eliminated the Nets.

Draymond is talking out of his ass, he tries once more to shift the blame on Jokic, Luka etc not getting flak acting like they getting unfair treatment from media and or fans.

[Magic Giannison]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

It definitely makes sense. Giannis had two years where he had a championship level team and didn't make the finals. No shame in losing to that Raptors team but the bubble was ugly. This year is Jokic's first real shot. Giannis wouldn't have gotten nearly as much criticism if he went down with Will Barton as his second-leading scorer or a Rivers/Campazzo backcourt.

My brother in Christ, Giannis had Bledsoe as his 3rd best teammate, Nicolla Mirotic who was shooting 28%, injured Brogdon. Sterling **** brown who was starting for us until brogdon returned for last 5-6 games.

With our logic, Giannis first shot was when he got Jrue on the team.

[Harry Garris]

Well this is BS. I’ve never seen a player hated on as viciously for “choking” in the playoffs as Dirk was the summer of 07 and the next few seasons after.

Also, Giannis got a whole ton of flak for losing to the Heat. Despite being European he somehow didn’t escape unscathed from that.

You’re seeing the hate on Jokic just get louder all the time, and it hasn’t fully started on Luka yet but believe me it’s coming. He’s next on the chopping block these next couple of years if the Mavs don’t win a title.

[Michael Jordan]

Americans stars without rings:
-Tatum
-Harden
-Butler
-Lillard
-Morant
-PG
-CP3

Euro stars without rings:
-Jokic
-Luka
-Embiid (French citizen technically born in Africa)

I'd say its a bad take by Draymond. We've seen Lillard, Harden, and especially CP3 get roasted for not winning a ring. Only a matter of time before people turn on Tatum and Morant too.

The word Euro seems to only implicate Jokic and Luka IMO who prior to this season haven't had the luxury of playing beside another star. Embiid gets heavily critiqued for not going far in the playoffs too but I think we all know he only meant Jokic/Luka. Meanwhile Draymond benefited from being drafted to the best shooting back-court in NBA history. Yet he's attacking two guys who haven't had enough talent around them to win a ring.

[skones]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

It definitely makes sense. Giannis had two years where he had a championship level team and didn't make the finals. No shame in losing to that Raptors team but the bubble was ugly. This year is Jokic's first real shot. Giannis wouldn't have gotten nearly as much criticism if he went down with Will Barton as his second-leading scorer or a Rivers/Campazzo backcourt.

Giannis won a championship as a three seed. Guess who else was a three seed that year, and was absolutely dismantled in four games versus Phoenix? And Jokic didn't have a real shot? Seems like a bar that moves one way and not the other.

[Harry Garris]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

To be fair, we should've won that Raptors series. Kawhi or not Kawhi we could've closed them off in that overtime, or in that G7 at home. And Giannis didn't play very well by his standards, he was a bit rough to watch at times. I can't recall Jokic ever not playing well in the play offs, and half the time his best teammate was Barton (who got cut this year).

For the last three years, Jokic's defenses have been absolutely toasted with him on the floor vs. him off.

Where are you getting that from? Jokic’s on/off numbers this season show the exact opposite. They’re better on defense with him on the court.

[Cavsfansince84]

It's a good thing for the league if there is less pressure on guys to get rings because they won't be running around teaming up as much.

[skones]

To be fair, we should've won that Raptors series. Kawhi or not Kawhi we could've closed them off in that overtime, or in that G7 at home. And Giannis didn't play very well by his standards, he was a bit rough to watch at times. I can't recall Jokic ever not playing well in the play offs, and half the time his best teammate was Barton (who got cut this year).

For the last three years, Jokic's defenses have been absolutely toasted with him on the floor vs. him off.

Where are you getting that from? Jokic’s on/off numbers this season show the exact opposite. They’re better on defense with him on the court.

In the playoffs specifically.

5.1 points better with him off defensively last year
3.3 points better with him off defensively the year prior
11.1 points better with him off defensively the year before that.

Based on where their DRTG stood during the regular season, vs where they became woefully ill equipped in the playoffs? Jokic deserves a ton of flak for that.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

To be fair, we should've won that Raptors series. Kawhi or not Kawhi we could've closed them off in that overtime, or in that G7 at home. And Giannis didn't play very well by his standards, he was a bit rough to watch at times. I can't recall Jokic ever not playing well in the play offs, and half the time his best teammate was Barton (who got cut this year).

For the last three years, Jokic's defenses have been absolutely toasted with him on the floor vs. him off.

I think he was actually tied for the best D rating on his team against the Warriors last playoffs.
No one is saying he's an elite defender but his bad defense has been generally overstated imo, and the media and casual fans have always cared more about offense so I don't think that's a byproduct of people protecting Jokic or anything.
Steph has also been targeted on defense in the past and I don't remember it being a big indictment of his overall value as a player, as just one example (Luka, Harden, KAT, Dame, Kyrie, young KD, prime Westbrook -- all these guys get or got pretty minimal criticism for their bad defense, and there are many more examples).

[Blacksheep25]

Silly. Dirk caught flak. Giannis won one. The other two relevant guys are young. Jokic will get there within next two years if he doesn’t win. Right now he’s younger than Jordan’s first. There have only been 4 relevant Euros when you’re talking that level. Like if Draymond had got drafted to Charlotte, he would have had zero pressure like any other role players.

[Bank Shot]

Stupid thing to say, but I DO think Jokic gets a lot less flak than Giannis did and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Giannis was more or less discounted from winning the 20-21 MVP because of his playoff failures while folks are ready to anoint Jokic for the third time and ignore his lack of success.

It definitely makes sense. Giannis had two years where he had a championship level team and didn't make the finals. No shame in losing to that Raptors team but the bubble was ugly. This year is Jokic's first real shot. Giannis wouldn't have gotten nearly as much criticism if he went down with Will Barton as his second-leading scorer or a Rivers/Campazzo backcourt.

My brother in Christ, Giannis had Bledsoe as his 3rd best teammate, Nicolla Mirotic who was shooting 28%, injured Brogdon. Sterling **** brown who was starting for us until brogdon returned for last 5-6 games.

With our logic, Giannis first shot was when he got Jrue on the team.

You mean first team All-D team Eric Bledsoe? Bledsoe had his flaws but that version of him was much better than what Jokic had to deal with while Murray was out. Slight difference between Aaron Gordon and Will Barton and Khris Middleton and Brook Lopez too. Also, Brogdon was fine for the ECF and would have been the Nuggets second-best player last year. Giannis is amazing, but we don't have to pretend like his situation the last few years has been similar to Jokic's.