NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[AussieCeltic]

Ok Gordon was more consistent then I remember still relatively inconsistent until the end of the year .
And Barton was the same tier of scorer of Gordon was last year .
Both guys played better than MPJ last season .

MPJ.. the guy who played 9 games last season?

Once again.. will Barton, the guy who just got WAIVED by the Wizards.

Give me some of whatever you’re taking bro

You basing last year off this year that’s an obvious deflect . Yes mpj the guy everybody cries about being gone didn’t even play well with Jokic last year .

He played 9 games last year. Well, actually 8 - he got injured at the start of the 9th. But great argument mate, you should take up debating, you’re really good at it.

[dygaction]

Embiid lost quite some momentum in the past four games - 3 Ls and 1 rest. Looks like only Giannis is still in the game, but he has missed A LOT of games. Need to play all rest to make it interesting

[AussieCeltic]

Embiid lost quite some momentum in the past four games - 3 Ls and 1 rest. Looks like only Giannis is still in the game, but he has missed A LOT of games. Need to play all rest to make it interesting

Coincidentally, it was the same time Eyetoma stopped posting

[ReddoverKobe]

Alls I know is that Giannis team won two…TWO!…games in the ECF when he was injured. Two series clinching wins.

The Bucks are a STACKED team. They had a 3-0
Stretch recently where Giannis played a tots of 15 minutes.

Y’all gonna need a little more than team record because his team seems to win fine without him.

So now the best record does not matter? Like i said jokic gets his own set of rules

[Infinite Llamas]

Alls I know is that Giannis team won two…TWO!…games in the ECF when he was injured. Two series clinching wins.

The Bucks are a STACKED team. They had a 3-0
Stretch recently where Giannis played a tots of 15 minutes.

Y’all gonna need a little more than team record because his team seems to win fine without him.

So now the best record does not matter? Like i said jokic gets his own set of rules

Individual wins is more important than team record to me. I don’t give points for 0/0/0/0/0 street clothes statlines. So unless you are going to tell me that you are vouching for Booker to win last year or Tatum to win this year, I don’t want to hear this “best record” nonsense. Jokic got more wins last year without his 2/3 guy last year. No excuses.


2021-22
Jokic 46 wins
Giannis 45 wins
Embiid 45 wins

2022-23
Jokic 41 wins
Giannis 38 wins
Embiid 31 wins

[_NoMas]

Alls I know is that Giannis team won two…TWO!…games in the ECF when he was injured. Two series clinching wins.

The Bucks are a STACKED team. They had a 3-0
Stretch recently where Giannis played a tots of 15 minutes.

Y’all gonna need a little more than team record because his team seems to win fine without him.

So now the best record does not matter? Like i said jokic gets his own set of rules

Individual wins is more important than team record to me. I don’t give points for 0/0/0/0/0 street clothes statlines. So unless you are going to tell me that you are vouching for Booker to win last year or Tatum to win this year, I don’t want to hear this “best record” nonsense. Jokic got more wins last year without his 2/3 guy last year. No excuses.


2021-22
Jokic 46 wins
Giannis 45 wins
Embiid 45 wins

2022-23
Jokic 41 wins
Giannis 38 wins
Embiid 31 wins

Hit the nail on the head. It’s the MVP award not the most successful cheerleader award

[HotRocks34]

.
.
.
Paul George Explains Why It's So Hard To Stop Nikola Jokic

Watch on YouTube

[ReddoverKobe]

So now the best record does not matter? Like i said jokic gets his own set of rules

Individual wins is more important than team record to me. I don’t give points for 0/0/0/0/0 street clothes statlines. So unless you are going to tell me that you are vouching for Booker to win last year or Tatum to win this year, I don’t want to hear this “best record” nonsense. Jokic got more wins last year without his 2/3 guy last year. No excuses.


2021-22
Jokic 46 wins
Giannis 45 wins
Embiid 45 wins

2022-23
Jokic 41 wins
Giannis 38 wins
Embiid 31 wins

Hit the nail on the head. It’s the MVP award not the most successful cheerleader award

And this shows you've never paid attention to mvp voting in the past. Yeam record has always mattered

[ReddoverKobe]

Alls I know is that Giannis team won two…TWO!…games in the ECF when he was injured. Two series clinching wins.

The Bucks are a STACKED team. They had a 3-0
Stretch recently where Giannis played a tots of 15 minutes.

Y’all gonna need a little more than team record because his team seems to win fine without him.

So now the best record does not matter? Like i said jokic gets his own set of rules

Individual wins is more important than team record to me. I don’t give points for 0/0/0/0/0 street clothes statlines. So unless you are going to tell me that you are vouching for Booker to win last year or Tatum to win this year, I don’t want to hear this “best record” nonsense. Jokic got more wins last year without his 2/3 guy last year. No excuses.


2021-22
Jokic 46 wins
Giannis 45 wins
Embiid 45 wins

2022-23
Jokic 41 wins
Giannis 38 wins
Embiid 31 wins

Jokic gets his own special rules. We get it.

[greekbuck34]

Not just Giannis. Luka, Embiid if healthy and maybe Durant could lead a team on a better record than the Wolves and a bunch of teams that seek to lose on purpose or have no other choice because most of their starters are injured for the whole season.

The same Giannis that missed 15 games last year would have led that team to the playoffs?

Oh, I'm sorry we're using this hypothetical Giannis that doesn't load manage/suffer from injuries seemingly every year...

If the Nuggets had the same win % without Giannis in your scenario that they did without Jokic, they miss the playoffs entirely.

But nice hypothetical, I'm sure Giannis plays 82 games if he's in Denver

Would be cool to see how Jokic would play in the playoffs with:
- All NBA defenders around him
- All stars around him
- Not having the luxury to miss a dozen games because his ... hurts or he's feeling sore

If your sole purpose is to not get swept in the first round then there is no reason to load manage in the regular season at all.

It's crazy to me that Nuggets fans seriously believe that only Jokic is able to finish in front of the Wolves and a bunch of tanks and hospital teams.

Giannis made the playoffs as the 6th seed on his sophomore season(19y) with Jason Kidd as his coach, Brandon Knight as his PG, Rookie Jabari Parker, MCW, OJ Mayo and Zaza Pachulia.

If there is no competition you will make the playoffs no matter who is playing as long as you try. Even the Tank Spurs made the playins last season because the Lakers were so trash and injured.

Only the Wolves were trying to make the playoffs under your Nuggets and when they won the play ins they celebrated like it was a championship. That's how bad the Western Conference was last season.

[_NoMas]

Individual wins is more important than team record to me. I don’t give points for 0/0/0/0/0 street clothes statlines. So unless you are going to tell me that you are vouching for Booker to win last year or Tatum to win this year, I don’t want to hear this “best record” nonsense. Jokic got more wins last year without his 2/3 guy last year. No excuses.


2021-22
Jokic 46 wins
Giannis 45 wins
Embiid 45 wins

2022-23
Jokic 41 wins
Giannis 38 wins
Embiid 31 wins

Hit the nail on the head. It’s the MVP award not the most successful cheerleader award

And this shows you've never paid attention to mvp voting in the past. Yeam record has always mattered

Historically team record has mattered because, MVP winners have missed less than 10 games in all but one year (AI, missed 11), so team record and individual wins were often fairly similar.

But apparently games missed doesn’t matter anymore and fans are trying to put forward MVPs who are on pace to miss 15+ games (clearly you’ve not paid attention to past voting, MVPs don’t miss that many games) - so yes, with that large a sample size of missed games we can’t reward cheerleading

[GeorgeSears]

And this shows you've never paid attention to mvp voting in the past. Yeam record has always mattered

It's just not as important as individual numbers. The last time team record really determined an MVP race was when DRose won it. If it was a big deal, Devin Booker would've received at least 1 first-place vote last year, he received none.

[greekbuck34]

.
.
.
Paul George Explains Why It's So Hard To Stop Nikola Jokic

Watch on YouTube

Giannis put 90 points on the Clippers on two games and they even had Zubac against us. When you just have Plumlee and you try to guard a big with SFs and small PFs what do you expect to happen? The Clippers still think that they can stop every 7ft like Gobert.

[Infinite Llamas]

So now the best record does not matter? Like i said jokic gets his own set of rules

Individual wins is more important than team record to me. I don’t give points for 0/0/0/0/0 street clothes statlines. So unless you are going to tell me that you are vouching for Booker to win last year or Tatum to win this year, I don’t want to hear this “best record” nonsense. Jokic got more wins last year without his 2/3 guy last year. No excuses.


2021-22
Jokic 46 wins
Giannis 45 wins
Embiid 45 wins

2022-23
Jokic 41 wins
Giannis 38 wins
Embiid 31 wins

Jokic gets his own special rules. We get it.

Gordon Haywards team won 55 games in 2017-18. Why wasn’t he getting love for awards??

It’s an extreme example, but giving a guy credit for wins he has no part of is the absolute worst evidence you can use of why a guy is the most valuable player.

“Special rules” must be code for white flag because you clearly have no argument here.

[denvers_finest]

Read on Twitter

This is easily explained by not only Nuggets bench is terrible but also to the way Nuggets are one of the few if not the only team that subs all 5 of their players with bench which highly inflates their on off and general +- numbers.

This shows difference in TS%, not +/- so I don’t get the argument that the nugggets bench sucks. I mean, it does, but that doesn’t explain why his teammates shot better with him than without

[Johnny Firpo]

"Team record have always mattered" is another bad, bad argument. We don't know how much it mattered, because the best players in the NBA almost always had the best record, or close to it. But even then, Kareem's example showed that when he won it with a losing record, that no, this is not a rule, it's more like a circumstance that is usually present. Most of the time the best players have the best records, it wasn't the case last year, but it is the case this year. Jokic did not need it last year, and it made his case even stronger this year. None of it would matter if he doesn't come up with arguably the GOAT regular season. He is coming up with up. It's really that simple.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I don't think people actually hate Jokic, I think people hate that for some reason the unwritten rules about MVP don't apply to him. Team record did not matter last year when it has in the past. Guys have had monster years, Jordan included in this and voter fatigue stopped them from getting three in a row. The defensive part of this as well, not to mention the post season stuff, which people say does not matter but we know it does.

the issue is that you must understand what those "unwritten rules" are, or you end up making a fool of yourself like Perkins with that "top10 in ppg" BS.
It's always a COMBINATION of:
- games played
- team wins
- personal contribution to those wins

Jokic could win with 48 because the other candidates were at just 51, not at 60.
And there was actually a very good argument that his contribution there was the highest (and he technically won more games himself, the other missed more)

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Bigs dominate analytics and they free gifted mvps for it.
Greg Monroe has a career 20 PER and positive net rating but couldn’t play in the league.

You Jokic this year mvp and no one would blink an eye. Last year a lot of people blinked an eye.
6th seed ain’t valued nothing , most valued thing in nba is contention and voters screwedthe pooch last year .

Y'all hung up on seeding, but seeding is a product also of how your team does WITHOUT you.

The facts:
Jokic played in more wins than the runner ups (Giannis/Embiid).

If you want to give Giannis/Embiid credit for things that happened when they're in street clothes cause they're not as durable as Jokic, that's your choice. Thankfully, the voters realize that to be VALUABLE, you typically have to be on the court.

Giannis averages more points, rebounds and is on another planet when it comes to defense, and has played 5 less games. It's getting insane at this point.

I have a very hard time taking seriously people who think raw ppg with no context is some sort of pivotal argument during MVP discussions, to assess an offensive player. You can't dismiss more complex analytical metrics and than just come with the most stupid number in support. Showoff your X&O knowledge

[Exp0sed]

Adding to the Perk debacle:
This is all racially\culturally driven agendas

Tonight Embiid literally stat padded his points in the last couple of mins when the game was out of reach

I guess he figures if he sneaks in 4-5 extra shots and thus get 35 and not say..28

Then ppl will forget how he got there and only rememer that he's the Ppg leader etc

That was as blatant padding as ive seen in a while..with the 76ers in a tough losing stretch when their only win came without Embiid and the last msg a leader should be sending to his guys is saying: i care more about my stats and personal accolades than i do about losing

Will we see Perk calling out Embiid for stat padding? Actual stat padding?

Ofc not...and neither will the Embiid fanboys on this forum

P.s he was also cooked by Doncic and Kyrie countless times

If we photoshop Jokic into those same plays, ppl here would have opened 5 diff threads about his poor defense and how is targeted on defense

Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Should he have won in 1997? Probably, but you would have expected all the narrative things you mention to be in his favor. In most semi-advanced statistical ways, Jordan was better in 1997 and Malone was better in 1998. So one maybe fatigue award 25 years ago? It doesn't seem like it's that big a deal.

Those years I remember clearly that there was a very strong narrative about Malone having his best year ever at 33 (it was considered quite old, at the time) and the Jazz going over the hump up to 64 wins.
Moreover, the previous season Stockton had a very poor playoff showing vs Payton + that was the first time in many years he was not the assist leader. I remember there was some extra narrative coming about Malone leading the best Jazz team ever while Stockton was starting to fade, while the Bulls were seen as a super team top to bottom.
I still think it was a case of voter fatigue, the only real one I remember, as I really felt people were looking for a good reason to vote for someone else. But Karl actually had a very impressive case.