Nikola Jokic vs Peak Magic Johnson

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 5:07 am

Current Jokic or Peak Magic, who is the better player?

rk2023 · Post #2 » by **rk2023** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 5:10 am

Can we wait until the playoffs are over for these conversations?

Medbrat · Post #3 » by **Medbrat** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 2:12 pm

Jokic by far. He's better at everything basketball related - by far. Better at shooting from everywhere around the court including the FT line. Better passer by a little bit. MUCH MUCH better scorer overall. Better rebounder by a good margin. Better defender by almost every metric.
Bad comparison.

Medbrat · Post #4 » by **Medbrat** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 2:15 pm

Jokic by far. He's better at everything basketball related - by far. Better at shooting from everywhere around the court including the FT line. Better passer by a little bit. MUCH MUCH better scorer overall. Better rebounder by a good margin. Better defender by almost every metric. Better playoff performer.
Bad comparison.

70sFan · Post #5 » by **70sFan** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 2:59 pm

Medbrat wrote:Jokic by far. He's better at everything basketball related - by far. Better at shooting from everywhere around the court including the FT line. Better passer by a little bit. MUCH MUCH better scorer overall. Better rebounder by a good margin. Better defender by almost every metric.
Bad comparison.

Jokic isn't a better passer, at least not clearly. He's more problematic defender than Magic. He's worse ball-handler and perimeter creator. He's worse transition player.

He's also a worse FT shooter - that's literally the easiest thing to compare in basketball.

I get that Jokic is amazing, but please stop with exaggarations that include false points.

bigboi · Post #6 » by **bigboi** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 3:25 pm

I promise you if you had this take or even made this comparison irl, you’d be laughed at like an idiot. It’s mMagic not even close. Jokic hasn’t sniffed anything. This is why this 3 peat mvp is bs, now we’ll have terrible takes.

No-more-rings · Post #7 » by **No-more-rings** » Thu Mar 2, 2023 11:35 pm

I think it can go either way, but it feels likely that Jokic passes Magic’s peak even if it doesn’t happen this year.

PicPock · Post #8 » by **PicPock** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 8:06 am

Excuse me guys, do you really compare a 1xMVP, a 3xFinals MVP and a 5xChampion by the age of 28 with Jokic?

dygaction · Post #9 » by **dygaction** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 8:33 am

PicPock wrote:Excuse me guys, do you really compare a 1xMVP, a 3xFinals MVP and a 5xChampion by the age of 28 with Jokic?

If you refuse to compare, it is more like you are comparing Murray/Gordon to Worthy/Kareem..

70sFan · Post #10 » by **70sFan** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 8:53 am

dygaction wrote:
PicPock wrote:Excuse me guys, do you really compare a 1xMVP, a 3xFinals MVP and a 5xChampion by the age of 28 with Jokic?

If you refuse to compare, it is more like you are comparing Murray/Gordon to Worthy/Kareem..

I agree, it's a very limited and often wrong approach. Don't you often use the same argument against Garnett though?

dygaction · Post #11 » by **dygaction** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 9:01 am

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
PicPock wrote:Excuse me guys, do you really compare a 1xMVP, a 3xFinals MVP and a 5xChampion by the age of 28 with Jokic?

If you refuse to compare, it is more like you are comparing Murray/Gordon to Worthy/Kareem..

I agree, it's a very limited and often wrong approach. Don't you often use the same argument against Garnett though?

not really, I have him in top 20 ATG. ATG is the career of players, achievements/accolades/longevity matters a lot. Otherwise it is comparison of raw talent.
I think Jokic and Magic can be compared, but if he does not win multiple championships, his ATG ranking would be well below Magic's.

70sFan · Post #12 » by **70sFan** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 9:05 am

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
If you refuse to compare, it is more like you are comparing Murray/Gordon to Worthy/Kareem..

I agree, it's a very limited and often wrong approach. Don't you often use the same argument against Garnett though?

not really, I have him in top 20 ATG. ATG is the career of players, achievements/accolades/longevity matters a lot. Otherwise it is comparison of raw talent.
I think Jokic and Magic can be compared, but if he does not win multiple championships, his ATG ranking would be well below Magic's.

Fair enough, so you think Garnett could be compared favorably in terms of raw talent to players that you have higher than him?

dygaction · Post #13 » by **dygaction** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 9:11 am

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:I agree, it's a very limited and often wrong approach. Don't you often use the same argument against Garnett though?

not really, I have him in top 20 ATG. ATG is the career of players, achievements/accolades/longevity matters a lot. Otherwise it is comparison of raw talent.
I think Jokic and Magic can be compared, but if he does not win multiple championships, his ATG ranking would be well below Magic's.

Fair enough, so you think Garnett could be compared favorably in terms of raw talent to players that you have higher than him?

Yes, if he were in 60 Celtics, he would have won a lot more; If he joined Pistons instead of Rasheed, he might have had more accolades than Duncan... The same can be said for many players but ATGs do not take IFs. It is like when you count the richest people in the world, some people are #5 only because he squandered a lot from his dad otherwise he should have been #1 :lol:

but still the ranking is the ranking

70sFan · Post #14 » by **70sFan** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 9:14 am

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
not really, I have him in top 20 ATG. ATG is the career of players, achievements/accolades/longevity matters a lot. Otherwise it is comparison of raw talent.
I think Jokic and Magic can be compared, but if he does not win multiple championships, his ATG ranking would be well below Magic's.

Fair enough, so you think Garnett could be compared favorably in terms of raw talent to players that you have higher than him?

Yes, if he was in Celtics, he would win a lot more; If he joined Pistons instead of Rasheed, he might have had more accolades than Duncan... The same can be said for many players but ATGs do not take IFs.

I am talking about peaks comparison without taking full career into account.

Anyway, I think Jokic has a very reasonable case over Magic, but we need to see his defense being acceptable in the playoffs. I hope to see a long run from Nuggets this year.

dygaction · Post #15 » by **dygaction** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 9:25 am

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:Fair enough, so you think Garnett could be compared favorably in terms of raw talent to players that you have higher than him?

Yes, if he was in Celtics, he would win a lot more; If he joined Pistons instead of Rasheed, he might have had more accolades than Duncan... The same can be said for many players but ATGs do not take IFs.

I am talking about peaks comparison without taking full career into account.

Anyway, I think Jokic has a very reasonable case over Magic, but we need to see his defense being acceptable in the playoffs. I hope to see a long run from Nuggets this year.

Peaks comparison we are talking about best players' best seasons, 2004 is up there MVP for sure, historically good MVP, I am not sure, maybe every 3-5 years? I don't think it takes a legend's historical best season to bring that team to 58 wins.

Jokic's defense - From today's game, even Embiid was being targeted quite heavily so ... we will see.

Medbrat · Post #16 » by **Medbrat** » Fri Mar 3, 2023 12:47 pm

Jokic getting flack for his D while Biid was absolutely obliterated on that end last night by Dallas lmao...